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Parity in GSF


Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
02.14.2018 , 09:44 PM | #11
@Phalczen Quick aside I actually opened all those boxes on stream ,because well I ran out of room to make more. I had my inventory and all 6 bank tabs full. It was a pretty fun stream.
DrakolichDrakolích
The BastionTwitch Stream

SoothingDarkness's Avatar


SoothingDarkness
02.14.2018 , 10:46 PM | #12
Why pick and quote my quotes? I'm not the original poster of the quotes I quoted. I just didn't want to mark my quotes as quotes, so now my quotes are quoted quotes. Mocking my suggestions doesn't really help. Critiquing them, and offering other ideas does. I'm not saying that people aren't. I've seen good ones. This is just for those who would rather say no no no, rather than thinking up ideas.

Anyway. People are quoting me out of context, without taking into account what I actually said. Regardless of what you feel things should be, the queue dies every night as soon as a certain group shows up. This is not something of a matter of opinion, but it's something supported by empirical evidence. There is no opposing group that they play against, and they don't make any effort to balance out the matches. All this behavior about you should do this or that to stay competitive, is just people trying to be elitist. Which is a vulgar behavior in any culture.

All of this is a moot point anyway. The reality is that people stop queuing, rather than form groups to challenge an overwhelming group. If an unopposed group will not split up and form multiple groups to challenge each other, they deserve the dead queues which they wrought.

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
02.15.2018 , 06:08 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Drakkolich View Post
It was a pretty fun stream.
I'd love to see it. People love those crate opening videos.
Quote: Originally Posted by SoothingDarkness View Post
Why pick and quote my quotes? I'm not the original poster of the quotes I quoted. I just didn't want to mark my quotes as quotes, so now my quotes are quoted quotes. Mocking my suggestions doesn't really help.
I responded to your post because you echo sentiments I've read on the forums here before, not just in this thread, and I was particularly taken aback by your unfounded claim that voice comms are cheating. Now, people should be respectful during discussions. But this is the internet, so you're going to have to put your grown up pants on and maybe even some hip waders and get ready to dive into the muck and hope you come out with something of value.

There was a neighborhood with children who like to play American football. They pretty much know all the official NFL rules and such. The township decides to build one park with a football field and goalposts and maintain it. There are 22 kids that regularly play in the neighborhood, so there are enough kids for a game. They're all largely busy through the week so they tend to play on Sundays.

However, 11 of those kids are on the local junior high team. They're bigger and stronger. They've practiced for a few years, they've read play-books and been given advice by coaches. They work well together. We will call them team A.

The other 11 kids, well, they enjoy playing football, but they aren't part of a team. They have other things they enjoy maybe, other after school activities, so they don't want to join the team. Maybe their parents don't have the money to buy them equipment. But, they still want to play. Let's call them team B.

Of course, team A, with better physical abilities, knowledge of how to run plays, and a history of teamwork, roflstomps team B. Often times, when the kids on team B see the kids from team A coming up to the field, they just leave the field. Team B isn't having any fun, so they complain to their parents who then complain to the township to do something. And when team B runs off and goes home, the kids on team A don't have any fun either.

Some would argue that Team A should be forced to divide their players up so that both teams have some good players and some less talented people. A redistribution of wealth, as it were.

Some would argue its up to the people in Team B to watch videos of football plays online, exercise more to strengthen up, and work together with their teammates throughout the week to be better coordinated, practice plays, etc. A model of adult learning and self-improvement, as it were.

Some would argue the township should build another football field, so that the players in Team A can play as a group and the players in team B can play the way they want. Of course, there are only 22 kids in the neighborhood that regularly play. Now, a few other kids in the community hear that the roflstomping won't continue because the teams are separated, so 2 or 3 kids join the B group, but that's still not enough for a full match. Furthermore, building another football field will take away from other areas of the playground.

Others would argue that the businesses in town should provide some prizes for the people who play in team B, like a coupon for a meal at the local diner. Maybe more kids come out, and a larger pool of kids are playing football and having fun. Or, maybe the kids in team A leave for team B because they want the coupons, and team A kids no longer have enough people to play.
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SoothingDarkness's Avatar


SoothingDarkness
02.15.2018 , 07:56 PM | #14
Those are some decent analogies, if you were talking about groups only. But that's ignoring that solo queue is a option, and most defiantly should be. It's like putting two teams from similar spots together, without any kind of streamlining to make it work.

I'm sure someone will probably take this out of context, since that seems to be the recurring theme. The queue is fake, and plays favorites. Groups skip ahead in line, regardless of how long someone who is queued solo has been waiting. But telling people they have to queue group, get skipped in the queue, or get destroyed takes that option away. Nothing I have brought up is anti-group, or anti-solo. Yet it seems that people have taken it that way. I'd like both options to be viable. There are group pilots, and there are solo pilots. There are some that are interested in both, and just want to have a choice. That's where I fit.

What I said about third party programs has been taken out of context to. That fits into that sports analogy like one team using aluminum bats, and the other team using wooden bats. The team with aluminum bats will be able to hit the ball farther, with respect to equally skilled batters. If both teams are using wooden bats, or aluminum bats there is no problem. It's when you have a disparity in what is available, that's when the cheat arises.

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
02.15.2018 , 09:03 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by SoothingDarkness View Post
The queue is fake, and plays favorites. Groups skip ahead in line, regardless of how long someone who is queued solo has been waiting. But telling people they have to queue group, get skipped in the queue, or get destroyed takes that option away.
Despon, a frequent contributor to these forums, a teacher/content creator for GSF on YouTube, and a good pilot, often solo-queues. He's often proposed a custom match lobby to allow people to create their own type of matches, whether it be gunship-free matches or 4v4 teams, or whatever. Other pilots have said a group ranked GSF queue would be welcome. Neither of those suggestions are mutually exclusive either ... both would be met with applause. However, most people are concerned that the playerbase size prohibits separation of the queues.
But let's talk about your "getting destroyed" allegation. How exactly would you normalize the solo-queuing experience to ensure solo pilots had a chance to win? You can't do it by overpowering any one ship to be a carry ship: we had that to some extent 5.5 and it didn't work anyway, because when you make a ship OP its gonna be devastating in the hands of experienced pilots on a team.
Would you give that side a handicap? Like enable cap ship turrets for the side with more solo-queuers in TDM? Seems easily exploitable to me.
Would you prohibit two groups that had been queued up from being on the same 8-person team when the match pops? You have to go back to the number 1 concern stated very often by the developers. Their #1 concern is pop frequency. Everything they do has to take into account what it will do to the frequency of pops. This is true for ground pvp, flashpoints, and GSF. Players don't like waiting around. So any solution you propose has to result in a neutral or positive effect on pop frequency.

Quote: Originally Posted by SoothingDarkness View Post
It's when you have a disparity in what is available, that's when the cheat arises.
As I said before, the GSF Discord has open voice channels, is free to download/install/use on both smart phones and PCs, and is well publicized to everyone. There is no disparity other than individual choice. I think you care enough to make thoughtful posts, but if you continue to insist that voice comms are cheating, I'm not sure we can have a reasonable discussion.
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SoothingDarkness's Avatar


SoothingDarkness
02.15.2018 , 10:07 PM | #16
Please explain this open voice discord thing? I don't think it's as publicized as well as you think. At least not in game. Every once in awhile I see someone tell people in matches about /cjoin gsf, but perhaps only during operations have I seen mention of a voice thing. If it's of value please talk about it in game, as I'm probably not the only one to play a lot and not watch forums. Is it set up so solo queued people can easily form a radio frequency within the minute they have before starting? You've piqued my curiosity.

I don't think ship balance is really an issue. They all seem to be pretty good. Perhaps there can be some tweaking to this or that, but for the most part it seems ok. I do like those ideas that were mentioned though. I think the player base is there. Look what happened right after the server merges. Lots of people queued up, all through the day, and night alike. I think there are more bad things pushing people away, than good things retaining or attracting people. Some refinement in matching what people want to queue for, to what they actually get put into couldn't hurt.

DakhathKilrathi's Avatar


DakhathKilrathi
02.15.2018 , 11:04 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by SoothingDarkness View Post
Please explain this open voice discord thing? I don't think it's as publicized as well as you think. At least not in game. Every once in awhile I see someone tell people in matches about /cjoin gsf, but perhaps only during operations have I seen mention of a voice thing. If it's of value please talk about it in game, as I'm probably not the only one to play a lot and not watch forums. Is it set up so solo queued people can easily form a radio frequency within the minute they have before starting? You've piqued my curiosity.

I don't think ship balance is really an issue. They all seem to be pretty good. Perhaps there can be some tweaking to this or that, but for the most part it seems ok. I do like those ideas that were mentioned though. I think the player base is there. Look what happened right after the server merges. Lots of people queued up, all through the day, and night alike. I think there are more bad things pushing people away, than good things retaining or attracting people. Some refinement in matching what people want to queue for, to what they actually get put into couldn't hurt.

First of all, I'm getting the distinct impression that you have no idea what Discord is. This should help:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=discord

There's a link in my signature (and unlike the one earlier in the thread, this one doesn't expire). It's pretty easy for groups to decide on a channel to use at the start of the match. As you can see, they're laid out pretty clearly.

SoothingDarkness's Avatar


SoothingDarkness
02.16.2018 , 10:39 AM | #18
Interesting. I'm just seeing a bunch of empty channels, so I guess I'm doing something wrong. Is there any forum threads about this? It's kind of going off topic, and I'd like to learn more without distracting from it.

DakhathKilrathi's Avatar


DakhathKilrathi
02.16.2018 , 10:53 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by SoothingDarkness View Post
Interesting. I'm just seeing a bunch of empty channels, so I guess I'm doing something wrong. Is there any forum threads about this? It's kind of going off topic, and I'd like to learn more without distracting from it.
I don't think you're going that far off-topic at all. What do you mean you're seeing a bunch of empty channels? If the voice channels are empty, it's because no one is using them at the time. The unfortunate reality is that 99% of the time they stay empty, but the resource is there for anyone to use.

Verain's Avatar


Verain
02.16.2018 , 11:04 PM | #20
The text channels are in almost constant use any time of day honestly.

The Discord voice channels are available for anyone, and someone looking to pick up a group will be able to find a spot in there without any clashing. I do agree that it is odd that people don't use them more often for this.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."