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Cannon: sold to highest bidder

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Cannon: sold to highest bidder

KnightPierce's Avatar


KnightPierce
01.02.2018 , 07:44 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthDymond View Post
Star Wars is, hands down, my favorite fictional universe, I absolutely love the stories, characters, and worlds that have flowed out of Lucas's work over the years and decades.

But Star Wars is not -- and never has been -- some grand, coherent vision the way, for example, Lord of the Rings was. Lucas originally wanted to do an updated remake of the Flash Gordon serials from the 1930s, but he couldn't get the rights. So, instead, he set out to make a movie that was like those sci-fi serials, but needed to put together his own original sci-fi setting for it. What he came up with was a phenomenal (and phenomenally successful) movie. From there, he had a handful of plot points and scenes in mind from earlier drafts that didn't fit in the run-time of that original movie, and then he just started making the rest up as he went along.

Lucas didn't stick "Episode IV" onto the re-release of Star Wars because he had a meticulous plan for three prequels, he did it because it added to the Flash Gordon-esque serial feel he was originally going for. He didn't envision a trilogy with an overarching story of a son redeeming his father and finding his sister, because he didn't even decide to make Darth Vader and Anakin Skywalker be the same guy until after ANH had already been released. The "Clone Wars" was a cool sci-fi sounding name to fill out a line of dialogue with when he wrote it, not a key part of some elaborate backstory. Leia being Luke's sister wasn't something he had planned out from the beginning, it was a way to wrap up the love triangle without leaving one of the fan-favorite characters brokenhearted once he decided not to kill anyone off (and all the actors signed on for the third movie).

My point is, what Lucas "intended" was never a set vision, it changed -- sometimes based simply on merchandising. Midichlorians, sticking rockets onto R2-D2, clone Boba Fett, all of that is pure undiluted Lucas, too, because he was just playing it by ear as he went. Star Wars is a fantastic universe that sprang from Lucas's original work, but any talk of what is or is not true to Lucas's intent or vision. . . there was no overarching vision or intent to be true to, just what the guy liked or didn't like at any given point in time.
Genetics were part of the Star Wars universe in the EU. Midichlorians and cloning.
Clone Wars even mentions in Episode 4. The scientific explanation of the force was also important because of the idea of cloning a force user. Namely the Emperor being cloned. Approved EU stories focused on these elements heavily and reappeared in many productions and games as major themes. You think he had less planning than he actually did. When in reality he had plans that people didn't want him to do. Episode 2 and 3 went into heavy changes after massive media attacks Episode 1 that attacked the film as racists and promoting homosexuality through the character of Jar Jar, you can still look up archives of these media attacks. BUT I remember seeing Episode 1 opening night and I remember the love there was for the film at the time, there was nothing like it. The graphics WERE GOOD for the time. People laughed at jar jar. The media attacked it, the co-producers attacked it. Actors withdrew their involvement (Leonardo D. C) and key roles had to be recast and to appease others characters re-written.

jarjarloves's Avatar


jarjarloves
01.02.2018 , 07:55 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by knightpierce View Post
promoting homosexuality through the character of jar jar,
rofl lol what?

"General Forums you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy, we must use caution"

KnightPierce's Avatar


KnightPierce
01.02.2018 , 08:04 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by jarjarloves View Post
rofl lol what?

I kid you not
https://nypost.com/1999/06/10/jar-ja...-is-out-there/

edit: The hate for Episode 1 -3 was MANUFACTURED and Meme'd before social media was a thing.

ceryxp's Avatar


ceryxp
01.02.2018 , 08:05 PM | #24
This is all that matter, and this is the end of the discussion. At least for me it is. You have this idea in your head, it's called headcanon, of what Star Wars is, of what Lucas intended, of how he had this grand, overarching idea that spread across multiple movies, books, comics, graphic novels, TV shows, etc., etc. etc., when there was no such thing. Lucas considered the EU, and everything in it, separate from his SW's universe. You can headcanon a blending of the two all you want. For you, Chewie is dead and Han is alive, Luke had a thing with a force ghost who wore his apprentice as a skin suit, Palpatine was cloned who knows how many times, the Yuuzhan Vong happened, and Zonama Sekot is actually out there somewhere, but to Lucas it didn't exist and was separate from his Star Wars universe.

ďI donít read that stuff. I havenít read any of the novels. I donít know anything about that world. Thatís a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions.Ē Ė George Lucas, from an interview in Starlog #337

The EU isn't canon. And no matter how many times you try to you're not going to convince others to accept your headcanoned definition of canon.
--------------------------------------------------
Click the link. You know you wanna. - http://www.swtor.com/r/W9ZqZj

KnightPierce's Avatar


KnightPierce
01.02.2018 , 08:08 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by ceryxp View Post
This is all that matter, and this is the end of the discussion. At least for me it is. You have this idea in your head, it's called headcanon, of what Star Wars is, of what Lucas intended, of how he had this grand, overarching idea that spread across multiple movies, books, comics, graphic novels, TV shows, etc., etc. etc., when there was no such thing. Lucas considered the EU, and everything in it, separate from his SW's universe. You can headcanon a blending of the two all you want. For you, Chewie is dead and Han is alive, Luke had a thing with a force ghost who wore his apprentice as a skin suit, Palpatine was cloned who knows how many times, the Yuuzhan Vong happened, and Zonama Sekot is actually out there somewhere, but to Lucas it didn't exist and was separate from his Star Wars universe.

ďI donít read that stuff. I havenít read any of the novels. I donít know anything about that world. Thatís a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions.Ē Ė George Lucas, from an interview in Starlog #337

The EU isn't canon. And no matter how many times you try to you're not going to convince others to accept your headcanoned definition of canon.
Using the term Canon is poison to Star Wars now that there is no longer a single person in creative control of it. It makes zero sense to continue saying x is and y is not canon when George Lucas himself is told his ideas will not be used.

jarjarloves's Avatar


jarjarloves
01.02.2018 , 08:47 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by KnightPierce View Post
I kid you not
https://nypost.com/1999/06/10/jar-ja...-is-out-there/

edit: The hate for Episode 1 -3 was MANUFACTURED and Meme'd before social media was a thing.
... the New York post isn't a reputalbe paper.. it's a trash supermarket tabloid paper.

"General Forums you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy, we must use caution"

KnightPierce's Avatar


KnightPierce
01.02.2018 , 08:56 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by jarjarloves View Post
... the New York post isn't a reputalbe paper.. it's a trash supermarket tabloid paper.
wow it was just one result. Try researching the topic yourself.

edit:

Rolling Stones, June 24, 1999

https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/...-born-19990624

Empire Online, 11 Jun 1999

https://www.empireonline.com/movies/...jar-gay-alien/
They even tried to retroactovely partially delete the article in 2015.

And more. Much much more.

The media without social media had full reign to say whatever it wanted to the public about Episode 1. I saw it in theaters and the media did not reflect the fan reception. People got mad mostly about episode 2 but by that time the damage was done, the hate spread to all things prequals including the media fall guy, jar jar binks.

Neltronluur's Avatar


Neltronluur
01.02.2018 , 09:24 PM | #28
For the sake of trying to defuse this before it becomes another rage filled "I'm right your wrong thread", let me just offer this. We know Lucas had a different idea of Canon then Disney and honestly it's to be expected when you have two different leadership styles in play and two completely different world views. George viewed Star Wars as a saga for the Skywalker's and the people associated with them. Good would always triumph over evil in the end. Jedi were the good guys and Sith were the bad guys, Rebels were good Empire is bad. Disney is trying to explore the Gray area far more and this is an area that Lucas himself really hesitated to go into (he did by extension of the EU but not to a great extent) for fear of destroying the Light vs. Dark dynamic that made Star Wars what it is.

So what Disney is doing isn't wrong and what Lucas did is not right and vice versa. You simply have two different mindsets going on but the goal is the same. More Star Wars content. Disney primarily through movies and Lucas primarily through EU material.

You can agree or disagree with either style but when it comes to the Star Wars fan-base there truly is no right or wrong way to love it.
"Master of the Living Force"

jarjarloves's Avatar


jarjarloves
01.02.2018 , 09:57 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by KnightPierce View Post


Elements of canon were in the EU and that was clarified by Lucas and a staff he had hired to oversee the EU. This creative control method is why we used the term Canon with star wars.


This statement lets me know you have no idea how canon was discussed pre disney and how Lucas was used as the benchmark.
so i missed you responded to me but oh my....

So you really don't know what Star Wars canon is. We didn't use the term George Lucas did


I'll just leave this here for you https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_W...cation_history

and yes I do know how Canon was discuses pre Disney it seems to be you are the one who doesn't understand how Star Wars canon works.

Edit oh also that Empire online "article" is a comment someone made... not an article it was also written in 2015 so unless George Lucas has a time machine don't know how read that and felt it was preasuring him

same with the Rolling Stone article it was written in 2002 after Attack of the CLones.


so keep em comming buddy

"General Forums you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy, we must use caution"

KnightPierce's Avatar


KnightPierce
01.03.2018 , 09:10 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by jarjarloves View Post
so i missed you responded to me but oh my....

So you really don't know what Star Wars canon is. We didn't use the term George Lucas did


I'll just leave this here for you https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_W...cation_history

and yes I do know how Canon was discuses pre Disney it seems to be you are the one who doesn't understand how Star Wars canon works.

Edit oh also that Empire online "article" is a comment someone made... not an article it was also written in 2015 so unless George Lucas has a time machine don't know how read that and felt it was preasuring him

same with the Rolling Stone article it was written in 2002 after Attack of the CLones.


so keep em comming buddy
You took the date of a photo added to the article and not the article itself as its creation date. Can't even have this debate with you when you grossly lie about what you are seeing.