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The Last Jedi Is Facing A Very Vocal Minority

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
The Last Jedi Is Facing A Very Vocal Minority

Leklor's Avatar


Leklor
12.24.2017 , 02:53 PM | #21
I realize that we've massively veered off of the original question, you're question mind you.
That was: How can the First Order "reign"?
Answer is: In the very short time span that TFA and TLJ happened, in a relatively DMZd galaxy, no one could muster a decent enough force to oppose them. The fact that they are too small to hold against a united galaxy may very well be the point of Episode IX.
But as far as TFA and TLJ, the situation is not incoherent (As I suppose you were implying through your question.)
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FlavivsAetivs's Avatar


FlavivsAetivs
12.24.2017 , 03:03 PM | #22
I won't deny that those of us who dislike the movie are the minority, but just because we're disappointed doesn't mean we should be trodden over for voicing our discontent. I mean look at /r/prequelmemes. A big portion of that reddit actually loves the prequels. A big portion of Star Wars fandom loves the prequels. Fans jump on a media bandwagon and that's how this works. But some of us formed our own opinions (either in love or in disappointment with the new film) while the majority let a review or otherwise decide for them.

However this phenomenon is not unique to Star Wars. Every fandom for the past 10 years has been like this. Look at the Star Trek reboot, or Dr. Who, or Halo (which is more recent). Look at The Hobbit vs. Lord of the Rings. It's just how fandom has evolved.

That being said, my grievances with the movie are deeply rooted in its plot mostly, and some of them are more superficial. But I and other fans have grievances that are deeply rooted in the treatment of Expanded Universe fans - and fans in general - by Disney, which have probably brought out some of that animosity. Rigged "fan choice" polls, blatant social media comments from authors and staff members insulting fans (EU or otherwise), insulting Star Wars, insinuating the fandom is gullible and stupid, etc.

All of these are symptoms of Disney ignoring the fans. Fan input has a big impact on franchises: they're the biggest purchasers, they're the ones who keep these things alive and profitable long-term. But there comes a point where you need to stop listening to your market research team and go back to having an actual author, an actual storyteller, direct your franchise. Not a board of people hired in 2002 that have wanted to see the franchise retconned and write their own fanfics for almost two decades (I'm looking at you, Hidalgo and Kennedy et al.). Someone more like Dave Filoni needs to be in charge, who can deliver original and new things and take things in a new direction, without alienating the hardcore fans and instead giving them something exciting and new to pounce on. It's like when a company loses its CEO and left to the board of directors. Star Wars will spiral into Oblivion. If you want to see what paying attention to the fans can do to a franchise: well ****, look at Deadpool. Ryan Reynolds is a hardcore fan who knows the canon and knows what the fans want and how to properly fulfill their ambitions and expectations, and make a damn good, highly profitable movie out of it.

I don't hate the movie, I don't hate Star Wars, I don't hate Rian Johnson. But I am massively disappointed and it's just something that adds to the list of grievances I've had about Star Wars for the past 4 years.
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Storm-Cutter's Avatar


Storm-Cutter
12.24.2017 , 06:11 PM | #23
It's a movie. It's primary reason for existing is to make the studio a shed-load of money by having a broad appeal - as well as giving old fans their SW fix.

It seems to have done both those things by sticking to a tight-ish formula - by trying a few new things, but in a familiar way.

If you went to see it and enjoyed it, fair pay to you. If you didn't enjoy it so much, then its just another movie you don't have to see again or buy into. It probably won't change anyone's life dramatically - we're all the same people we where before its release.

I for one liked it - not loved it, but liked it. - Daisy and Oscar and Laura and Kelly Marie Tran were excellent. Mark Hamill and Carrie.... maybe not so much.

It's entertainment for the masses. You can't please all the people all the time.
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Rebamcfan's Avatar


Rebamcfan
12.25.2017 , 06:59 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Leklor View Post
I realize that we've massively veered off of the original question, you're question mind you.
That was: How can the First Order "reign"?
Answer is: In the very short time span that TFA and TLJ happened, in a relatively DMZd galaxy, no one could muster a decent enough force to oppose them. The fact that they are too small to hold against a united galaxy may very well be the point of Episode IX.
But as far as TFA and TLJ, the situation is not incoherent (As I suppose you were implying through your question.)
I would also like to think that the Galaxy is in shock too after seeing the Hosnian System being destroyed by the First Order, hence why no one hasn't yet been able to give out a full fledged response to what they did (apart from Resistance).
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Leklor's Avatar


Leklor
12.25.2017 , 07:35 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Rebamcfan View Post
I would also like to think that the Galaxy is in shock too after seeing the Hosnian System being destroyed by the First Order, hence why no one hasn't yet been able to give out a full fledged response to what they did (apart from Résistance).
Another point I'd read on the Star Wars subreddit is the reason why nobody responded to the Crait distress call:
They probably assumed it was a trap, even with Leia's personal codes. After all, why would the figurehead of the Resistance suddenly beam out an easily detectable call for help leading to a far away system? Either Leia had been captured and forced to do it or she was doomed to die. And until Luke stalled the FO she and the Resistance were ****ed.
BTW I think supplementary material indicate that the fleet we follow in the film is just the very last group to evacuate D'Qar, explaining why Jess Pava, Nien Numb or Snap Wexley aren't seen anywhere even in the opening dogfight.
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ottffsse's Avatar


ottffsse
12.25.2017 , 07:56 AM | #26
This movie was kind of "bland". I was expecting a nice kick in the guts sort of thing like Empire Strikes Back delivered - since this is the second movie of the "new" trilogy - where I though the bad guys needed to show some muscle to set of higher stakes in the the third movie. Instead the first order really did not do anything and are paper tigers - I don't know I just don't feel the action anymore, so yes, I think the movie can be criticized for plot/dramatic coherence. Mind you it is not that it does not work or entertain, but honostly there is lots of wasted potential.
We as viewers are constantly getting "patted on the back" by Disney and co...like there is always this sub-message oh everything will be fine for the people we are supposed to root for - and I get it, they are making a very safe movie for families to enjoy and god forbid they upset anyone. Rogue One, out of the new movies is the only one where I felt OK - the severity of stakes in the battle between the good and bad guys had the right tone.
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Rebamcfan's Avatar


Rebamcfan
12.25.2017 , 09:16 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Leklor View Post
Another point I'd read on the Star Wars subreddit is the reason why nobody responded to the Crait distress call:
They probably assumed it was a trap, even with Leia's personal codes. After all, why would the figurehead of the Resistance suddenly beam out an easily detectable call for help leading to a far away system? Either Leia had been captured and forced to do it or she was doomed to die. And until Luke stalled the FO she and the Resistance were ****ed.
BTW I think supplementary material indicate that the fleet we follow in the film is just the very last group to evacuate D'Qar, explaining why Jess Pava, Nien Numb or Snap Wexley aren't seen anywhere even in the opening dogfight.
That trap explanation sounds plausible. Could very well indeed be that people were assuming that Leia had been captured/killed by the First Order. Other reason what I could see would First Order sympathisers within Resistance supporters, stalling them from sending help. I haven't read Bloodlines or other Canon novels, but I remember reading that the First Order had its agents meddling with the politics of New Republic, so that could explain too why none answered.
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NHBabe's Avatar


NHBabe
12.25.2017 , 09:49 AM | #28
Since people keep bringing up polls and numbers - well you're right, the numbers/polls don't lie.

As an example from The Numbers Box Office Week 1:

Force Awakens = $390,856,054
The Last Jedi = $296,602,356

You also have to remember that there is a 2 year time period between films and ticket prices have only risen.

What I'm saying is - Force Awakens in the first week made MORE than The Last Jedi when ticket prices were cheaper. They both opened the same time period - so people can't claim it's due to the holiday.

So for those saying that the numbers PROVE that people LOVE The Last Jedi, even moreso than Force Awakens, well......Obviously a great many people are only seeing it once as that is a pretty significant difference in first week opening numbers.
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Nieme's Avatar


Nieme
12.25.2017 , 10:23 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by adormitul View Post
Mandalore in the times of the Republic I mean not the one in rebels time you know the one ruled by Darth Maul. So let me continue the home planet of Erza is an place to build ships and lot of ships. Shown in the last episodes or so the empire used machinery to extract the material needed for the ships no importing they literally strip the planet of its materials every material to build the ships. Erza's planet is an barren rock mostly desert like and from that thing they got the resources needed. I am confident that every planet can has the resources to do build ships.

Now here is what you forget The First Order still has an Resistance they have to deal with for over 10 years by now besides stopping the ones that can appear. Look after Alderan the rebellion grew huge why the resistance can't grow even bigger because of the systems I forgot the name of? I am not assuming the people people will want to fight the first order I know they want because they did it against the Empire when they destroyed Alderan.

Do you think with 30 star destroyers when they have to deal with the Resistance who like it or not know how to inflict damage quite an huge amount by the way can stop other resistance movements from forming in the over 3.5 million inhabited systems? Look in Rebels for Trawn to find the Rebel base he needed months and months and he had only managed because one of his drones actually found the planet and was destroyed. That was just luck. You can not keep an eye on everyone even less when you have less resources an smaller military and you have an active resistance group that really inflicts damage.
Ezra's planet has valuable resources for the Empire, and they are also high in price. If you read the new Thrawn Novel it depicts the rise of power for the Governor of Lothal, and the rise of Grand Admiral Thrawn. The Governor wanted to expand Lothals production capabilities and in order to secure favor and resources from the Empire she struck an exclusive deal with them for the rare minerals that were found on Lothal. The Empire brought in the resources and the manpower to build the ships you see in Rebels. During the early years of the Empire Lothal was overlooked as a minor mining world with no real clout, and no ability to make ships by itself

You are still under the impression that all these inhabited systems are useful and support the republics ideals. The Clone Wars started because of how many systems disliked the republic. The Core Worlds and the Mid-Rim all pretty much joined the Empire willingly during its conception. Only after Sidius started strip mining planets and alienating whole races for a supremacist regime of humans did discontent start to build up. Added on top of all that the corrupt political system that eventually took over. The Same politicians mind you, that would be around most likely during the New Republic.

All these millions of planets ( I would like to see where you pulled that stat honestly ) are irrelevant. Most want nothing to do with the Republic or the Empire, but to be left in peace. And seeing as how the wars and battles have mostly been fought for control of Key Core worlds and Mid-Rim sectors I see no reason for a planet that has been largely ignored by both factions to pick a side.
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adormitul's Avatar


adormitul
12.25.2017 , 10:29 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Nieme View Post
Ezra's planet has valuable resources for the Empire, and they are also high in price. If you read the new Thrawn Novel it depicts the rise of power for the Governor of Lothal, and the rise of Grand Admiral Thrawn. The Governor wanted to expand Lothals production capabilities and in order to secure favor and resources from the Empire she struck an exclusive deal with them for the rare minerals that were found on Lothal. The Empire brought in the resources and the manpower to build the ships you see in Rebels. During the early years of the Empire Lothal was overlooked as a minor mining world with no real clout, and no ability to make ships by itself
Oh the kyber crystals yeah there rare but the rest I bet are on every other planet also are kyber crystals needed to build star ships?
Now sure Lothal got there because the empire financed the infrastructure but there are other planets outside the core and mid rim that have the infrastructure to build more ships like Mandalore had and I am confident that they number in the thousands. It does not have to be in the Other Rim either they could just be in the the COre who has thousands of inhibited systems also or the Mid Rim Who have even more.
30 star destroyers can not check all these planets.