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The Last Jedi Is Facing A Very Vocal Minority

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
The Last Jedi Is Facing A Very Vocal Minority

Ylliarus's Avatar


Ylliarus
12.24.2017 , 06:57 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by adormitul View Post
The first order build their fleet in the unknown region at the edge of the galaxy and managed to make one what stops other from doing the same? It seem that being on barren rocks apart from resources and supplier can not stop you from building ships.
Yes, but how many years did it take for the First Order to build what they have? 30 years and that was due to The Supremacy, Snoke's flagship, which was a factory as well as warship. Planets like Tatooine don't have that many resources nor the organisation to do it, you have to understand that. Besides, it were Imperial remnant forces that fled into the Unknown Regions. Warships, personnel, resources and research, they took that with them there and from that created the First Order. Surely you see the difference between that and a backwater planet like Tatooine? The First Order was established from something that already was with a significant foundation, an individual planet would have to start from scratch and the First Order could move in and stop them whenever they want.
ATTENTION: Include the Twi'lek into the 3 new eye colours from Appearance Options: Expanded Selections in the next patch. It was a huge mistake to not do this from the start as they are being grossly neglected as a playable species.
Oh yeah, and this is my referral link!

Leklor's Avatar


Leklor
12.24.2017 , 06:57 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by adormitul View Post
The first order build their fleet in the unknown region at the edge of the galaxy and managed to make one what stops other from doing the same? It seem that being on barren rocks apart from resources and supplier can not stop you from building ships.
The fact that up until maybe two days before TLJ, people counted on the protection of the New Republic and even the smallest ship takes days to build (And I'm talking about a starfighter here.)
By the time anyone can secretly build a whole fleet of capital ships, several years will have passed and the FO will have continued to build its stuff at a much faster rate since they'll still have places like Fondor and Kuat.
Which is why Episode IX is probably going to revolve around the Resistance assembling a fleet out of outdated models and making it hold together with duct tape because they won't be able to produce new ships.
I wouldn't be surprised if they stumble upon decomissioned Imperial Star Destroyers and use that due to their desperate situation.

Also, one thing I noticed why reading "Before the Awakening", a lot of systems joined the FO willingly, after Leia was denounced as Vader's daughter, turning a lot of opinion against the New Republic for "sheltering" the child of a monster like Vader and hiding it from everyone. Also they bought a lot of Senators.
This is a referral link, use at your own risk:
http://www.swtor.com/r/l72c4c

Ylliarus's Avatar


Ylliarus
12.24.2017 , 07:01 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Leklor View Post
The fact that up until maybe two days before TLJ, people counted on the protection of the New Republic and even the smallest ship takes days to build (And I'm talking about a starfighter here.)
By the time anyone can secretly build a whole fleet of capital ships, several years will have passed and the FO will have continued to build its stuff at a much faster rate since they'll still have places like Fondor and Kuat.
Which is why Episode IX is probably going to revolve around the Resistance assembling a fleet out of outdated models and making it hold together with duct tape because they won't be able to produce new ships.
I wouldn't be surprised if they stumble upon decomissioned Imperial Star Destroyers and use that due to their desperate situation.

Also, one thing I noticed why reading "Before the Awakening", a lot of systems joined the FO willingly, after Leia was denounced as Vader's daughter, turning a lot of opinion against the New Republic for "sheltering" the child of a monster like Vader and hiding it from everyone. Also they bought a lot of Senators.
Very much true.

Many systems joined the First Order willingly because they were Imperial loyalists for example prior to the defeat of the Galactic Empire. Worlds like Kuat would gladly join the First Order which was formed from the remnants of the Galactic Empire. The First Order would gain a significant shipyard and would be able to triple their military and navy at twice the rate they did. By the time any planet would gather up the resources to build 1 capital ship the First Order would have built already 10.
ATTENTION: Include the Twi'lek into the 3 new eye colours from Appearance Options: Expanded Selections in the next patch. It was a huge mistake to not do this from the start as they are being grossly neglected as a playable species.
Oh yeah, and this is my referral link!

adormitul's Avatar


adormitul
12.24.2017 , 09:53 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Ylliarus View Post
Very much true.

Many systems joined the First Order willingly because they were Imperial loyalists for example prior to the defeat of the Galactic Empire. Worlds like Kuat would gladly join the First Order which was formed from the remnants of the Galactic Empire. The First Order would gain a significant shipyard and would be able to triple their military and navy at twice the rate they did. By the time any planet would gather up the resources to build 1 capital ship the First Order would have built already 10.
Yes true but that capital ship can easily do surgical strikes crippling their future production or better take over other planets to increase their production 3.5 million inhabitable planets are very hard manage they have an lot from where to take and the First Order can not do an thing or care.
Soon that 1 capital shop paved the road an increase production by 100, 200, 300 and so forth. Also planetary shields the capital ships can't do an thing with their ships if the planet is shielded and an Yon cannon they will have to send their ground troops and assuming that an capital ship can hold 1.000.000 soldiers times 40 is 40 million soldiers against an planet that has an army of lets say 1/3 that it will be the end of the First Order because of the Fortifications losses will cripple the First Order even if they win basically ending their world domination.

Celise's Avatar


Celise
12.24.2017 , 09:53 AM | #15
don't forget your spoiler tag around your thread so people like me who hasn't seen the film don't get duped by potentially safe threads full of spoilers showing up instead. Eric Musco already made a thread about before.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=939787

Ylliarus's Avatar


Ylliarus
12.24.2017 , 09:59 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Celise View Post
don't forget your spoiler tag around your thread so people like me who hasn't seen the film don't get duped by potentially safe threads full of spoilers showing up instead. Eric Musco already made a thread about before.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=939787
I am so sorry, I completely forgot! I knew about the posts Eric made but it slipped my mind completely, I apologise very much if the thread spoiled anything for you
ATTENTION: Include the Twi'lek into the 3 new eye colours from Appearance Options: Expanded Selections in the next patch. It was a huge mistake to not do this from the start as they are being grossly neglected as a playable species.
Oh yeah, and this is my referral link!

Ylliarus's Avatar


Ylliarus
12.24.2017 , 10:09 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by adormitul View Post
Yes true but that capital ship can easily do surgical strikes crippling their future production or better take over other planets to increase their production 3.5 million inhabitable planets are very hard manage they have an lot from where to take and the First Order can not do an thing or care.
Soon that 1 capital shop paved the road an increase production by 100, 200, 300 and so forth. Also planetary shields the capital ships can't do an thing with their ships if the planet is shielded and an Yon cannon they will have to send their ground troops and assuming that an capital ship can hold 1.000.000 soldiers times 40 is 40 million soldiers against an planet that has an army of lets say 1/3 that it will be the end of the First Order because of the Fortifications losses will cripple the First Order even if they win basically ending their world domination.
I am afraid you have a too idealised view of how the galaxy in Star Wars works, because what you are talking about is only feasible in theory and completely impossible when it comes to practice. An inhabited planet does not mean a planet rich in resources, a planet capable of supporting an infrastructure, a planet having a shipyard. Compare Kuat to Tatooine, and you will see how it is very unlikely that Tatooine will ever support a productive shipyard that can rival ships of the First Order. Planetary shields are not easy to get by, mind you, it is a costly endeavour that a single planet might not be able to afford. There were multiple examples in the past where one planet had even difficulty affording a single warship and when they got it they were severely indebted to other organisations. The most important issue however is a shipyard, a capital ship is best built in space and building it on the ground might bring immense complications.

As to the one capital ship doing surgical strikes, my friend, capital ships are not easy to manneuvre at all. It is far more likely the capital ship will go in for one strike, be ambushed by multiple First Order ships and be destroyed. Do you see how what you say is too simplified and actually very unlikely to yield success? I see that in your argumentation you cling onto the fact that there are very many habitable planets too much. A habitable planet does not mean a planet capable of producing the necessary elements to be even be able to build a shipyard in order to start building a capital ship.
ATTENTION: Include the Twi'lek into the 3 new eye colours from Appearance Options: Expanded Selections in the next patch. It was a huge mistake to not do this from the start as they are being grossly neglected as a playable species.
Oh yeah, and this is my referral link!

adormitul's Avatar


adormitul
12.24.2017 , 10:19 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Ylliarus View Post
I am afraid you have a too idealised view of how the galaxy in Star Wars works, because what you are talking about is only feasible in theory and completely impossible when it comes to practice. An inhabited planet does not mean a planet rich in resources, a planet capable of supporting an infrastructure, a planet having a shipyard. Compare Kuat to Tatooine, and you will see how it is very unlikely that Tatooine will ever support a productive shipyard that can rival ships of the First Order. Planetary shields are not easy to get by, mind you, it is a costly endeavour that a single planet might not be able to afford. There were multiple examples in the past where one planet had even difficulty affording a single warship and when they got it they were severely indebted to other organisations. The most important issue however is a shipyard, a capital ship is best built in space and building it on the ground might bring immense complications.

As to the one capital ship doing surgical strikes, my friend, capital ships are not easy to manneuvre at all. It is far more likely the capital ship will go in for one strike, be ambushed by multiple First Order ships and be destroyed. Do you see how what you say is too simplified and actually very unlikely to yield success? I see that in your argumentation you cling onto the fact that there are very many habitable planets too much. A habitable planet does not mean a planet capable of producing the necessary elements to be even be able to build a shipyard in order to start building a capital ship.
In Empire Strikes Back the hunted and resource low Rebellion had several ships some huge and an Ion Cannon which forced the empire the Ion Canon I mean to fight on ground and while the empire won the losses where huge.
We are talking here about an place that had thousands of people.
Take Mandalore for example it has millions of people and has the ability in that Tatooine like planet to house an great army and make ships quite an lot of them and its not in the Core region and Rim regions. In Rebels tv show to makes ships on an planet that was mostly and rock they took the resources from the planet with great big things destroying the planet. The planet where the jedi kid was born and grew up its in the last 3 episodes of Rebels. In those episodes it shoes that even an mostly barren rock has the resources needed to build ships.

Ylliarus's Avatar


Ylliarus
12.24.2017 , 12:06 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by adormitul View Post
In Empire Strikes Back the hunted and resource low Rebellion had several ships some huge and an Ion Cannon which forced the empire the Ion Canon I mean to fight on ground and while the empire won the losses where huge.
We are talking here about an place that had thousands of people.
Take Mandalore for example it has millions of people and has the ability in that Tatooine like planet to house an great army and make ships quite an lot of them and its not in the Core region and Rim regions. In Rebels tv show to makes ships on an planet that was mostly and rock they took the resources from the planet with great big things destroying the planet. The planet where the jedi kid was born and grew up its in the last 3 episodes of Rebels. In those episodes it shoes that even an mostly barren rock has the resources needed to build ships.
About Mandalore: resources they got from the Empire. Personnel they got from the Empire. Organisation they got from the Empire. Take that away and Mandalore remains without resources to produce, their personnel vanishes partly and the organisation falls apart. The same happened to the galaxy when the New Republic was destroyed, the organisation, financial support, infrastructure fell apart. That is why it is not likely they would mount a rebellion or fleet or resources in the way you describe.

Also, as for the ion cannon of the Rebellion, Mon Mothma wasn't exactly poor you know. The Rebellion was funded by former Senators and the like. They had the planet of Mon Calamari on their side which had a famous and reputable shipyard. They had ships and funds because they had organisation and infrastructure. Yet even that took them 20 years to establish and the Galactic Empire didn't pay as much attention to them. Now the First Order has learned from the mistakes of the Empire and knows what to watch and how to act to prevent a rebellion of the sorts to arise. Even if a band of planets would start building up a resistance it would take them years to amount a small force of opposition, yet with the First Order having learned from what the Empire did wrong they'd likely know what to look out for and how to seek to prevent from such a resistance force to arise.

One giant element you are forgetting here is the following: the will to rise in opposition. The galaxy is tired and wrought with war, having faced a Galactic Civil War that tore apart everything they loved and knew. People were tired of war as was described in the Aftermath novels, it's a logical thought that the systems wouldn't want to band together in rebellion. Or perhaps they were too afraid to do such, seeing as how the First Order was willing to destroy the entire Hosnian system, I'd find that quite fear-inspiring indeed. Also, you assume the natural instict of the people of the galaxy is to fight the First Order, it isn't. Already in the Bloodline novel it was clear tha many amongst the New Republic favoured the way the Galactic Empire functioned and sought to have the New Republic reflect it in organisation and make up. Many worlds were well treated amongst the Empire, perhaps even favoured. With the New Republic they lost that favour because the Republic wanted equality, so I wouldn't be surprised such planets like Corulag, Coruscant and Kuat were quite sympathetic to the First Order and joined them willingly. If other systems saw such prominent worlds join the First Order, it is a likely consequence their will to oppose it vanished as well. As he who controls the important worlds of the galaxy can control the rest of it squeezing it into submission.
ATTENTION: Include the Twi'lek into the 3 new eye colours from Appearance Options: Expanded Selections in the next patch. It was a huge mistake to not do this from the start as they are being grossly neglected as a playable species.
Oh yeah, and this is my referral link!

adormitul's Avatar


adormitul
12.24.2017 , 01:35 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Ylliarus View Post
About Mandalore: resources they got from the Empire. Personnel they got from the Empire. Organisation they got from the Empire. Take that away and Mandalore remains without resources to produce, their personnel vanishes partly and the organisation falls apart. The same happened to the galaxy when the New Republic was destroyed, the organisation, financial support, infrastructure fell apart. That is why it is not likely they would mount a rebellion or fleet or resources in the way you describe.

Also, as for the ion cannon of the Rebellion, Mon Mothma wasn't exactly poor you know. The Rebellion was funded by former Senators and the like. They had the planet of Mon Calamari on their side which had a famous and reputable shipyard. They had ships and funds because they had organisation and infrastructure. Yet even that took them 20 years to establish and the Galactic Empire didn't pay as much attention to them. Now the First Order has learned from the mistakes of the Empire and knows what to watch and how to act to prevent a rebellion of the sorts to arise. Even if a band of planets would start building up a resistance it would take them years to amount a small force of opposition, yet with the First Order having learned from what the Empire did wrong they'd likely know what to look out for and how to seek to prevent from such a resistance force to arise.

One giant element you are forgetting here is the following: the will to rise in opposition. The galaxy is tired and wrought with war, having faced a Galactic Civil War that tore apart everything they loved and knew. People were tired of war as was described in the Aftermath novels, it's a logical thought that the systems wouldn't want to band together in rebellion. Or perhaps they were too afraid to do such, seeing as how the First Order was willing to destroy the entire Hosnian system, I'd find that quite fear-inspiring indeed. Also, you assume the natural instict of the people of the galaxy is to fight the First Order, it isn't. Already in the Bloodline novel it was clear tha many amongst the New Republic favoured the way the Galactic Empire functioned and sought to have the New Republic reflect it in organisation and make up. Many worlds were well treated amongst the Empire, perhaps even favoured. With the New Republic they lost that favour because the Republic wanted equality, so I wouldn't be surprised such planets like Corulag, Coruscant and Kuat were quite sympathetic to the First Order and joined them willingly. If other systems saw such prominent worlds join the First Order, it is a likely consequence their will to oppose it vanished as well. As he who controls the important worlds of the galaxy can control the rest of it squeezing it into submission.
Mandalore in the times of the Republic I mean not the one in rebels time you know the one ruled by Darth Maul. So let me continue the home planet of Erza is an place to build ships and lot of ships. Shown in the last episodes or so the empire used machinery to extract the material needed for the ships no importing they literally strip the planet of its materials every material to build the ships. Erza's planet is an barren rock mostly desert like and from that thing they got the resources needed. I am confident that every planet can has the resources to do build ships.

Now here is what you forget The First Order still has an Resistance they have to deal with for over 10 years by now besides stopping the ones that can appear. Look after Alderan the rebellion grew huge why the resistance can't grow even bigger because of the systems I forgot the name of? I am not assuming the people people will want to fight the first order I know they want because they did it against the Empire when they destroyed Alderan.

Do you think with 30 star destroyers when they have to deal with the Resistance who like it or not know how to inflict damage quite an huge amount by the way can stop other resistance movements from forming in the over 3.5 million inhabited systems? Look in Rebels for Trawn to find the Rebel base he needed months and months and he had only managed because one of his drones actually found the planet and was destroyed. That was just luck. You can not keep an eye on everyone even less when you have less resources an smaller military and you have an active resistance group that really inflicts damage.