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The Last Jedi Is Facing A Very Vocal Minority

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
The Last Jedi Is Facing A Very Vocal Minority

Ylliarus's Avatar


Ylliarus
12.23.2017 , 06:28 PM | #1
And I am not saying this based on nothing, as the polls you can find around the internet are not lying.

I have been observing the reactions on these forums as well as other media, replying and posting myself as well, but there is one conclusion that I have come to make: the supposed "backlash" The Last Jedi is facing is coming from a very vocal minority who want to enforce their opinions onto others or at least make their negative opinion be heard louder. It is an important observation because a vocal minority does not represent the overall opinion of something at all, it merely shows that there are a few people who feel rather passionate about the subject.

It is easy to see on the forums or in the comments on Facebook; someone posts a positive opinion about the Last Jedi, a few people jump on that reaction like sharks smelling fresh blood and repeat their negative opinions again trying to overshout as it were the positive opinion. Someone else posts they liked TLJ, the process repeats and the exact same people of before attempt to bury the positive opinion with their negative one. It's always the same people who hate on The Last Jedi. And the polls you can find around the internet seem to support this fact, there is a minority who dislike the Last Jedi (most likely because their own fanfiction they had in their minds didn't come true) and they attempt to put the movie in a bad light.

Now I am not saying the movie was flawless, as I have stated multiple times in different posts I am positive about The Last Jedi and would rate it a solid 8.7/10 with it being my favourite Star Wars movie at the moment, yet there were points about which I was less enthusiastic. However, I have an open mind in regards to the new canon that Disney is making. Why? Because no matter how much I'd want it to be otherwise there is not going to be a different direction. Disney is setting the course, whether we like it or not. It's either staying close-minded and never be satisfied by the new content or opening your mind and finding much enjoyment in the new approach.

So, to the vocal minority who try to make The Last Jedi appear in a bad light: hate it all you want, dislike it all you want, but don't consider your opinion to be superior, don't enforce what you think of the movie onto others. If it ruined Star Wars for you then I am sorry to hear, but don't go spewing that Star Wars is gone and dead for everyone else because newsflash: it isn't. Try to look at the new canon and the movie with a fresh perspective, let go of your fanfictions and see the movie as it is, without expectations and assumptions and you'll see it in a much more positive light.

Note: I am saying all of this as a hardcore Star Wars fan who has gone through majority of the EU content, both Legends as well as the new canon EU continuity. I know Star Wars lore like the back of my hand and I am able to enjoy The Last Jedi as well as for example Legacy of the Force bookseries equally. Just have an open mind like me and you'll find much more enjoyment in the new canon than you do now.
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YaanaOhtar's Avatar


YaanaOhtar
12.23.2017 , 07:13 PM | #2
What a worthless, full of propaganda post.

1st Your link showed nothing. A bunch of picture without proof to back it up. The only post that I could track down is from SWNN which only has 26k followers and of all of them only 5K voted. Consider the starwars franchises, this SWNN is less than nothing.

2nd When you conduct a survey, what are your groups ? Who did you ask ? If you conducted of Trump popularity among a bunch of Trump fans it means nothing.

3rd The movie is in a BAD LIGHT. I don't even know how critics would consider this is fresh or the best star war. There are more plot holes then Batman v Superman. The story are as disjoint as BvS

4th Oh so you have an open mind ? Oh please......

"However, I have an open mind in regards to the new canon that Disney is making. Why? Because no matter how much I'd want it to be otherwise there is not going to be a different direction. Disney is setting the course, whether we like it or not."

What kind of reason is that ? Should DC fans have an open mind ? should all critic of DC movies have an open mind because "Why? Because no matter how much I'd want it to be otherwise there is not going to be a different direction. DC / WB is setting the course, whether we like it or not."

5th This is free speech. We will go spewing this a stupid trashy, SJW, disjointed, full of plot holes, Mary Sue movie all we want. You don't have a freaking right to stop us. YOU ARE NOT THE KING OR QUEEN.

Finally saying " I am saying all of this as a hardcore Star Wars fan who has gone through majority of the EU content, both Legends as well as the new canon EU continuity. " is worthless. Like I believe every single post on internet had claimed the same stupid thing. Also, stop being a pretentious snob. "Oh just have an open mind, you will see the light, just have an open mind and a turd will become a diamond. Oh just have an open mind and you can also enjoy ****** thing "

Leklor's Avatar


Leklor
12.24.2017 , 02:06 AM | #3
Quote:
Finally saying " I am saying all of this as a hardcore Star Wars fan who has gone through majority of the EU content, both Legends as well as the new canon EU continuity. " is worthless. Like I believe every single post on internet had claimed the same stupid thing. Also, stop being a pretentious snob. "Oh just have an open mind, you will see the light, just have an open mind and a turd will become a diamond. Oh just have an open mind and you can also enjoy ****** thing "
Thing is, it's nonsense on both sides.
How many times have I read stupid statements such as "This movie (TLJ) disrespects long-time Star Wars fan."
Who is that person declare that Star Wars fans are not being respected? I'm a Star Wars fan and I didn't feel disrespected. A lot of Star Wars fans saw the movie and didn't feel disrespected. So what gives him the right to declare that "we" were disrepected?
The answer is nothing.
Be it from haters or blind defenders, the argument is always the same "I have the mass on my side/I have the smart people who know its **** on my side". And it's stupid in both cases.
TLJ is a controversial movie, there are things to criticize in it, but neither extreme is right because, by their very nature as extremes, they can't be. The world is rarely only this or only that.
A proper opinion on the movie would be "I liked it/hated it because..." and not "It was great/It was **** and everyone who disagrees is a butthurt/Disney shill"
Until both tendencies die, there will be no real discussion on this movie. And considering how long it took for TPM to actually be discusses on the Internet beyond the "**** the Prequels mentality", I'm pretty sure I'll still be waiting for an intelligent debate on TLJ in 10 years.
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Ylliarus's Avatar


Ylliarus
12.24.2017 , 03:27 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by YaanaOhtar View Post
What a worthless, full of propaganda post.

1st Your link showed nothing. A bunch of picture without proof to back it up. The only post that I could track down is from SWNN which only has 26k followers and of all of them only 5K voted. Consider the starwars franchises, this SWNN is less than nothing.

2nd When you conduct a survey, what are your groups ? Who did you ask ? If you conducted of Trump popularity among a bunch of Trump fans it means nothing.

3rd The movie is in a BAD LIGHT. I don't even know how critics would consider this is fresh or the best star war. There are more plot holes then Batman v Superman. The story are as disjoint as BvS

4th Oh so you have an open mind ? Oh please......

"However, I have an open mind in regards to the new canon that Disney is making. Why? Because no matter how much I'd want it to be otherwise there is not going to be a different direction. Disney is setting the course, whether we like it or not."

What kind of reason is that ? Should DC fans have an open mind ? should all critic of DC movies have an open mind because "Why? Because no matter how much I'd want it to be otherwise there is not going to be a different direction. DC / WB is setting the course, whether we like it or not."

5th This is free speech. We will go spewing this a stupid trashy, SJW, disjointed, full of plot holes, Mary Sue movie all we want. You don't have a freaking right to stop us. YOU ARE NOT THE KING OR QUEEN.

Finally saying " I am saying all of this as a hardcore Star Wars fan who has gone through majority of the EU content, both Legends as well as the new canon EU continuity. " is worthless. Like I believe every single post on internet had claimed the same stupid thing. Also, stop being a pretentious snob. "Oh just have an open mind, you will see the light, just have an open mind and a turd will become a diamond. Oh just have an open mind and you can also enjoy ****** thing "
But this is exactly what I am talking about. You want links to the pictures I provided? I will gladly give them to you.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamiejirak1...WY#.ckWvK9mNnN

http://www.strawpoll.me/14637953

With what you have written you have proved my point perfectly. First of all, for some inexplicable reason you call my opinion propaganda: excuse me very much, but are you serious? You disagree with my opinion thus you call it propaganda? It's exactly what I was talking about, overshouting by a vocal minority. How is my own personal opinion which I am allowed to freely express propaganda?

Secondly, you claim you have free speech, so if I understand you correctly you can have free speech but I can't? When I am positive about the Last Jedi it's suddenly propaganda? It's rather hypocritical of you to claim free speech for yourself but deny myself that right by shoving it under the term "propaganda". It once more proves my point that the vocal minority just desperately wants to bury positive opinions beneath their own screaming.

Tertiary, you want a picture of my novel collection? I'll gladly share it with you, you'll see the reading marks on the bookscovers and know exactly which book I have read and which not. You prove my point for a third time that the vocal minority will go to any length just to be able to overshadowing any positivity being expressed towards The Last Jedi. Personal attacks, being rude and acting superior, nothing seems to be crossing the line for the vocal minority just. You don't want to believe me? Fine, but I know the truth so really, you are fighting for a very lost cause there. It's just silly to think that "oh he likes the Last Jedi he can't be a hardcore Star Wars fan because I am and I hate it, so true Star Wars fans have to hate TLJ to call themselves true fans". How ridiculous is that?

Lastly, there is no point in trying to convince you of anything. Being part of the vocal minority that hates TLJ has stripped you of reason, politeness and an open mind. You demonize anyone who is positive about the movie, you attack them on a personal level, claim free speech for yourself but put their opinion under propaganda and act in a hostile brutish manner instead of a reasonable debate.

Thank you so much for your post. Why am I so grateful? Because you have proved my point beautifully, you have acted exactly the way I wrote down in the OP the vocal minority acts and shown that nothing is too far just so you can scream your negative opinion in abundance. You have shown yourself to believe you are superior to me and others, but it's a very false assumption just so you know. Nonetheless, there isn't much left to be said because you have proved my point expertly. Thanks for being the perfect example!
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adormitul's Avatar


adormitul
12.24.2017 , 05:32 AM | #5
My questions how did the New Order with 30 or so star destroyers took the galaxy there millions of star systems with billions of planets how can you you control such an galaxy with such an small force.

Spoiler


Answer this and I can see your point.

Leklor's Avatar


Leklor
12.24.2017 , 05:52 AM | #6
Quote:
The empire had thousands of star destroyers and even they could not control all of it. So how is that even possible for the New Order ?
We don't have a clear indication of the FO's fleet but I think Battlefront 2 Resurrection implies it's a whole lot bigger than we've seen. And with the only real military force in the galaxy (The New Republic Navy) decimated, they're pretty much free to fly up to any planet and explain politely that any resistance will be met with orbital bombardment.
Also it's never actually stated that the First Order has control of the entire galaxy, just the parts that matter. I don't think they'll waste forces parking over Jakku or Tatooine but places like Kuat or Coruscant are probably locked down tight to produce even more ships.
In summary: It's not hard to control the galaxy when you have a relatively small fleet if not a single person can properly fight back. And we don't know for sure how big the FO is since they're based in the Unknown Regions.

Quote:
The New republic why did they disarmed so much?
Out-of-Universe it's obviously a plot convenience. In-universe it can be understood as Mon Mothma overreacting once she's at the head of the NR. After all, the galaxy just came out of a 22 years period of strife and chaos (3 years of Clone Wars that spanned the galaxy then 19 years of oppressive tyranny) so they thought that by disarming globally, such situations would be harder to set up again.
Sadly, they didn't plan on the Empire's survivors founding the First Order in the Unknown Regions and coming back to butt-rape them.

Quote:
Why would anyone follow Kylo Ren as the new supreme leader especially considering that high ranking leader of the New Order hate his guts?
Good question for IX but in VIII it's clear why: Kylo Ren holds Hux's leash in the immediate period following Snoke's death. So people follow. But after his humiliation on Crait, it's already made obvious that Hux is planning something and with some time to prepare, he'll probably gather his loyal followers and strike at Ren.
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adormitul's Avatar


adormitul
12.24.2017 , 06:02 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Leklor View Post
We don't have a clear indication of the FO's fleet but I think Battlefront 2 Resurrection implies it's a whole lot bigger than we've seen. And with the only real military force in the galaxy (The New Republic Navy) decimated, they're pretty much free to fly up to any planet and explain politely that any resistance will be met with orbital bombardment.
Also it's never actually stated that the First Order has control of the entire galaxy, just the parts that matter. I don't think they'll waste forces parking over Jakku or Tatooine but places like Kuat or Coruscant are probably locked down tight to produce even more ships.
In summary: It's not hard to control the galaxy when you have a relatively small fleet if not a single person can properly fight back. And we don't know for sure how big the FO is since they're based in the Unknown Regions.



Out-of-Universe it's obviously a plot convenience. In-universe it can be understood as Mon Mothma overreacting once she's at the head of the NR. After all, the galaxy just came out of a 22 years period of strife and chaos (3 years of Clone Wars that spanned the galaxy then 19 years of oppressive tyranny) so they thought that by disarming globally, such situations would be harder to set up again.
Sadly, they didn't plan on the Empire's survivors founding the First Order in the Unknown Regions and coming back to butt-rape them.



Good question for IX but in VIII it's clear why: Kylo Ren holds Hux's leash in the immediate period following Snoke's death. So people follow. But after his humiliation on Crait, it's already made obvious that Hux is planning something and with some time to prepare, he'll probably gather his loyal followers and strike at Ren.
An follow up question there 3.4 million inhabitable systems in the Galaxy are you telling them that even if they have hundreds of star destroyers they can stop the creation of an fleet to oppose them the empire could not do that and they had way more?

Also for the last question why did Kylo Ren did not kill Hux and replace him with someone more loyal? Its not an secret that Hux hates his guts and wants him dead after all.

Ylliarus's Avatar


Ylliarus
12.24.2017 , 06:05 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by adormitul View Post
My questions how did the New Order with 30 or so star destroyers took the galaxy there millions of star systems with billions of planets how can you you control such an galaxy with such an small force.

Spoiler


Answer this and I can see your point.
Answering your questions from the spoiler tag:

1. The exact resources and size of the First Order military and naval forces are unknown. We don't know how many Star Destroyers they have or what the size of their fleet is. It could be they built a force as large as the Empire's, it could be they have more, sadly we don't have a definitive answer yet. However, the Empire did manage to control the galaxy in the first years after its formation and there weren't Star Destroyers as we know they around yet, only the Republic fleet from the Clone Wars. Yet why did they manage to control the galaxy despite not having the biggest military in those first few year? Because there was no significant opposition. The CIS was disbanded and its military as well as naval forces shut down. The individual systems didn't have a large enough force to oppose the newly formed Empire thus they managed to take control of the galaxy the way they did.
In regards to the First Order the same situation applies: the Republic fleet was stationed at Hosnian Prime and destroyed when Starkiller Base destroyed the system. The rest of the galaxy was demilitarized (which I will get to in a second) and thus the individual systems didn't have much of a defense against any military force. That is how the First Order can take over the galaxy, because there is not significant military opposition that can oppose them. If there is no opposition then even the fear that a First Order Star Destroyer can swoop in and bombard the surface of a planet is enough to keep others in line. Essentially they would rule through fear, because the First Order has shown the galaxy that they are not afraid to destroy an entire system. It has shown the galaxy that they'll spare no one if they rebel and since the galaxy was still reeling from the Galactic Civil War, they just wanted to be left alone and have peace. If that meant peace under a fascist regime then apparently the galaxy was willing to accept that.
Also, not all systems matter. Systems like Jakku, Tatooine and such, the First Order wouldn't bother with them. Remember, there may be many inhabitable systems in the Star Wars universe but not even half of them are largely populated. Politically and military speaking only the Core Worlds and Mid Rim matter, they hold the resources and organisation that needs to be controlled if one is to control the galaxy. There is no need to control all of the galaxy if the important parts are conquered. What kind of resistance can a backwater planet like Tatooine or Jakku mount? None, which is why it's not necessary to control the entire galaxy. And note that when people speak of "conquering the entire galaxy" they actually mean "conquering the parts of the galaxy that matter". Don't take it literal as it is not meant as literal.

2. As to the demilitarized galaxy, this was actually explained in the first novel in the Aftermath trilogy. There is an entire chapter about Mon Mothma as she walks on the surface of a planet that had some significant fighting (this was in the first months after the Battle of Endor) and many deaths. She speaks with her advisors and she informs them that as the Chancellor of the New Republic she has chosen to demilitarize the New Republic down to 10%, thus cutting away 90% of the military they had after the war with the Imperial Remnant was concluded. She chose to do this because she wanted to show the galaxy the Rebel Alliance, by then the New Republic already, didn't defeat the Empire to become the Empire. Mon Mothma wanted the galaxy to return to the Republic that was before Palpatine rose to power. She wanted the military that was, that 10%, to be a peackeeping force and nothing more. That is why the galaxy was as demilitarized as it was. I can really recommend reading the Aftermath trilogy and the Bloodline novel as they really explain a lot of things that appear or happen in TFA and TLJ.

3.Because he was the only one that was capable to choke you to death, smack you against the wall and crush your bones with his mind. Not only that, but Kylo Ren was well respected in the First Order. Perhaps to us audience he appeared differently, but in the First Order Kylo Ren was a hero and ideal, along with others such as Captain Phasma. In the Phasma novel it is explained how the soldiers and members of the First Order are literally brainwashed into obedience and loyalty. They are bombarded with subliminal messages when they train, eat, work or sleep. They are brainwashed to be loyal, thus if a new Supreme Leader arises then following him or her is the right thing to do in their mind, the only thing to do. Hux may have hated Kylo because he had favour with Snoke, Hux may have thought about killing him, but look at what Kylo did. He just choked and flung Hux to the other side of that shuttle. Hux had no way of defending himself against it. He was forced to follow Kylo because he had no choice, Kylo was simply more powerful than Hux as he was capable to attack him with only using his mind. It is very much like Vader and why officers followed him in the Empire. We see Imperial officers mock Vader in A New Hope, what does Vader do? Choke them withou touching them even. That kind of power inspired fear and fear inspired loyalty, whether you like it or not. That is why Hux and the First Order followed Kylo Ren as the new Supreme Leader. He had the power to grab leadership, there was no one that could oppose him. If they did oppose him, he'd crush them with their mind. It's very much like the Sith in the Sith Empire, they rule because they can use the Force and Imperials not.
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Ylliarus's Avatar


Ylliarus
12.24.2017 , 06:14 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by adormitul View Post
An follow up question there 3.4 million inhabitable systems in the Galaxy are you telling them that even if they have hundreds of star destroyers they can stop the creation of an fleet to oppose them the empire could not do that and they had way more?

Also for the last question why did Kylo Ren did not kill Hux and replace him with someone more loyal? Its not an secret that Hux hates his guts and wants him dead after all.
1. But who is going to build their ships if the First Order already has major suppliers building ships for them? Where are they going to get resources from if the First Order is already claiming them? Who is going to organise all of that in the face of a rising force that threatens to conquer all? It's easier for those systems to submit rather than build a fleet, because honestly even if they started building the First Order could swoop in, destroy the ships being built and bombard the planet because they attempted to resist them. It is simply not feasible that a lone system could build a fleet strong enough to battle the already well established First Order military.
Also, as I said before, many inhabitable worlds doesn't mean all of them are largely populated. It has been confirmed several times by for example the Essentials Atlas that the Core Worlds and Mid Rim are the most populated areas of the galaxy while the rest is much less populated. It's why the Core Worlds and Mid Rim are the parts of the galaxy that matter, the rest is insignificant. If you control the Core Worlds and Mid rim you control the galaxy, that was the way the Empire held the galaxy in their grasp for almost 20 years unopposed. It's why when people say "conquering the galaxy" what they actually mean is "conquering the parts of the galaxy that matter".

2. Because Hux was an important figure in the First Order and he could inspire the military. In other words, Hux was useful to Kylo. It is simply weighing options and risks, apparently Kylo believed that Hux's use to him would be greater than the annoyance he was. Also, as was explained in the Phasma novel, the Hux family name was one well respected and known within the First Order. Replacing Hux with an unknown face would not have been a wise political move during a power shift. It is easier to establish your rule when surrounded by faces the soldiers and people know rather than removing them and placing new and unknown faces at the helm. Having Hux follow Kylo actually gave off an appearance of legitimization of Kylo's ascension to Supreme Leader, in the eyes of the public and soldiers.
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adormitul's Avatar


adormitul
12.24.2017 , 06:46 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Ylliarus View Post
1. But who is going to build their ships if the First Order already has major suppliers building ships for them? Where are they going to get resources from if the First Order is already claiming them? Who is going to organise all of that in the face of a rising force that threatens to conquer all? It's easier for those systems to submit rather than build a fleet, because honestly even if they started building the First Order could swoop in, destroy the ships being built and bombard the planet because they attempted to resist them. It is simply not feasible that a lone system could build a fleet strong enough to battle the already well established First Order military.
Also, as I said before, many inhabitable worlds doesn't mean all of them are largely populated. It has been confirmed several times by for example the Essentials Atlas that the Core Worlds and Mid Rim are the most populated areas of the galaxy while the rest is much less populated. It's why the Core Worlds and Mid Rim are the parts of the galaxy that matter, the rest is insignificant. If you control the Core Worlds and Mid rim you control the galaxy, that was the way the Empire held the galaxy in their grasp for almost 20 years unopposed. It's why when people say "conquering the galaxy" what they actually mean is "conquering the parts of the galaxy that matter".

2. Because Hux was an important figure in the First Order and he could inspire the military. In other words, Hux was useful to Kylo. It is simply weighing options and risks, apparently Kylo believed that Hux's use to him would be greater than the annoyance he was. Also, as was explained in the Phasma novel, the Hux family name was one well respected and known within the First Order. Replacing Hux with an unknown face would not have been a wise political move during a power shift. It is easier to establish your rule when surrounded by faces the soldiers and people know rather than removing them and placing new and unknown faces at the helm. Having Hux follow Kylo actually gave off an appearance of legitimization of Kylo's ascension to Supreme Leader, in the eyes of the public and soldiers.
The first order build their fleet in the unknown region at the edge of the galaxy and managed to make one what stops other from doing the same? It seem that being on barren rocks apart from resources and supplier can not stop you from building ships.