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Spoilers and why I did not like TLJ

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Spoilers and why I did not like TLJ

KnightPierce's Avatar


KnightPierce
01.03.2018 , 02:32 PM | #231
Quote: Originally Posted by forestguard View Post
Because we didn’t have Starkiller plans like they had for the Death Star? Macguffins aren’t always bad anyway.

And since you seem to hate on MacGuffins....”On the commentary soundtrack to the 2004 DVD release of Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope, writer and director George Lucas describes R2-D2 as "the main driving force of the movie … what you say in the movie business is the MacGuffin … the object of everybody's search"” (1)

(1) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacGuffin
R2D2's role had purpose for carrying the plans for the majority of movie. We had no idea Finn had this secret knowledge until the very briefing leading tot he attack as if the line was made up and they ran with it.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
01.03.2018 , 02:54 PM | #232
Quote: Originally Posted by Valceanu View Post
If you didn't catch my drift I'm done feeding the troll. I'm sure you're far more qualified then all the critics when it comes to rating a movie... lol. You've shown your true colors... So we're done here.
What makes critics qualified in rating a movie?

Hell, one of my favorite critics is openly biased in reviews that she considers furthering feminism. Giving a movie a go even when it would likely be terrible.

Basically, critics can and do have agendas. Some just have fears of giving bad reviews to a movie they think will get them backlash for giving a bad review.

Personally, I'm less inclined to see Rey as a Mary Sue. She feels like she's about where the other main force users are, except like everything, writers keep wanting to one up each other.

I'd say Rey just suffers from bad acting and/or bad writing and people mistake Mary Sue with obvious agendas they either don't want in their fiction or just disagree with.

They never should've had her fight Kylo in TFA. Kylo had years and years of training with the build up that he's also got lots of power (and with TLJ it would like like he wasn't afraid to hit the gym) vs the girl who just came to realize she had force powers and was to busy trying to survive to make any sort of muscle fitness a priority outside of every day survival needs.

It would've been as if Luke had fought Vader in ANH and won. However, they did need her to survive and not be captured again. So, barring anyone coming to her rescue (which would then have people saying "Sure, have the girl get rescued) she had to pretty much win for the story.

Luke was supposed to be a good pilot too and fans accepted it. I'd say the only thing we really didn't see Luke be said to be great at, is tech, which he still seemed to have some sort of skill.

Vader only seemed to get tech skills as little Annikin and then I really don't remember those skills used ever again (where they used after TPM?).

Which makes me wonder. Would there be less Mary Sue Rey, if she was played by a better actress?
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
01.03.2018 , 02:55 PM | #233
Quote: Originally Posted by KnightPierce View Post
R2D2's role had purpose for carrying the plans for the majority of movie. We had no idea Finn had this secret knowledge until the very briefing leading tot he attack as if the line was made up and they ran with it.
Which brings us too...why did they take the Janitor along with them to wipe out a small settlement?
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

forestguard's Avatar


forestguard
01.03.2018 , 02:57 PM | #234
Quote: Originally Posted by KnightPierce View Post
R2D2's role had purpose for carrying the plans for the majority of movie. We had no idea Finn had this secret knowledge until the very briefing leading tot he attack as if the line was made up and they ran with it.
The creator of Star Wars literally calls R2-D2 a MacGuffin. R2-D2 is given the plans to the Death Star..why him? Where did he come from? Why did Leia think he was the best choice? R2 moves fhe plot along, from taking the plans, to inadvertedly finding Luke, to suddenly having belonged to Obi-Wan, to being able to control a trash compctor that would have otherwise ended Han, Luke, Leia, and Chewy. He is the entire reason the plot of ANH moves forward.

All this to say, Finn being a MacGuffin at that point isn’t bad. The majority of the First Order was on that base, so it figures Finn would have been there at some point, especially with how longn it would’ve taken to be built. He brings it up because he finds out Rey was taken there, and he only wants to save Rey.
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Leklor's Avatar


Leklor
01.03.2018 , 03:31 PM | #235
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
Which brings us too...why did they take the Janitor along with them to wipe out a small settlement?
Finn is no janitor, it's just a silly claim that was made up by intentionally misinterpreting Finn's word.
His duties as "janitor" were disciplinary actions due to his squad's middling performance and his frequent bouts of lone wolf behaviors. (See "Before the Awakening", mostly)
A "janitor" wouldn't have a rather decent skill with a blaster rifle and an shock-baton (We'll not mention his performance with a lightsaber though.)
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KnightPierce's Avatar


KnightPierce
01.03.2018 , 04:17 PM | #236
Quote: Originally Posted by Leklor View Post
Finn is no janitor, it's just a silly claim that was made up by intentionally misinterpreting Finn's word.
His duties as "janitor" were disciplinary actions due to his squad's middling performance and his frequent bouts of lone wolf behaviors. (See "Before the Awakening", mostly)
A "janitor" wouldn't have a rather decent skill with a blaster rifle and an shock-baton (We'll not mention his performance with a lightsaber though.)
I'm sorry but sourcing a side story not in the movie is bad film making. he says un jokingly that he did sanitation.

KnightPierce's Avatar


KnightPierce
01.03.2018 , 04:18 PM | #237
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
Which brings us too...why did they take the Janitor along with them to wipe out a small settlement?
Exactly. And if as some apologist claims, that its part of a side book that he was there as a disciplinary action for poor performance than WHY would he be attached to Kylo Ren at all?

DarthDymond's Avatar


DarthDymond
01.03.2018 , 04:29 PM | #238
Are people really not familiar with the concept of latrine duty? I assumed the first person who posted was just making a joke, not legitimately asking or criticising the movie over it.

No "side book" is required to understand the implication that Finn was low man on the totem pole and got stuck on that detail.
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jarjarloves's Avatar


jarjarloves
01.03.2018 , 08:54 PM | #239
Quote: Originally Posted by NuSeC View Post
I never said ramming other ships was the norm, I said they have it built in to protecting the carrier. And if they have to take a hit, they will do whatever it take, including ram another ship before it can hit the carrier. Obviously you would use other ordnance before just running a boat into someone. But to say there is no case or that it is never done is a stretch.


My point is on the whole kamikaze thing is that it can be very effective. It is essentially a guided missile before guided missiles were a thing.

It is still a thing but we dont call it that, we now call it terrorist attacks. Some dude loading himself or others up with explosives for suicide bombings. It is the same principle.
yeah... its not even remotely the abnormal. How exactly is ramming ships built into the protection? There is no standing orders for that. There isn't a situtation where soemthing like that would occur in modern warfare

NO KAMIKAZE WASN"T EVER EFFECTIVE THAT"S THE POINT!

No Terrorists attacks are the EXACT OPPOSITE OF BUILDING LARGE NAVAL SHIPS FOR THE PURPOSE OF RAMMING THEM INTO OTHER SHIPS!

A terrorist bombing is there to spread fear and is done when they don't have money to do large scale attacks. They aren't effective at all at stopping an enemy. If they did the terrorists groups would have won and we would have surrendered.

Rememer the whole point of this dissucsion is

"Why don't the rebels just build ships and hyperspace them into the Empires ships"

As YOU your self have shown its NOT effective at stopping the enemy and its sure as heck not cost effective.

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SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
01.03.2018 , 10:21 PM | #240
Quote: Originally Posted by Leklor View Post
Finn is no janitor, it's just a silly claim that was made up by intentionally misinterpreting Finn's word.
His duties as "janitor" were disciplinary actions due to his squad's middling performance and his frequent bouts of lone wolf behaviors. (See "Before the Awakening", mostly)
A "janitor" wouldn't have a rather decent skill with a blaster rifle and an shock-baton (We'll not mention his performance with a lightsaber though.)
Didn't read the side books. People shouldn't have too. I'm not saying he isn't a trained soldier. Even the army teaches it's cooks to shoot. However, he basically comes out and says it.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry