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*Spoilers* Will Lana Become Unhinged?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
*Spoilers* Will Lana Become Unhinged?

Nefla's Avatar


Nefla
12.22.2017 , 09:57 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
Yeah, there were so many things they could have done...but didn't. And they gave us this fiasco instead.

I do think that if there's an option to kill or exile one, there will also be a way to do the same for the other, in the name of balance. If they want to clear everyone out for a new expac, well, here's their chance.

But IMHO it's not going to be because Lana was in on this. As I said, I really don't see her being in on this. I think it's far more likely that there will be one critical point where the player will be forced into a situation where they choose one, like the Torian/Vette choice. OR, alternatively, the situation will turn out in such a way that neither is at risk.

I actually don't think that it will be fair if they get rid of Lana, even if Theron goes, though. F/F players have nobody else In. The. Game. If you've romanced Theron and he goes, yeah, it sucks, but if you play through another character you have other choices if you're F/M. If you're a gay man, you have another option in Koth (I know he's not popular, but technically it counts, and it's possible to play through *without* him betraying you), and the rumor has it that Arcann will also be a playersexual character.

But if they mess up Lana irreparably, and it means that the ONLY F/F option in the entirety of the game has a bad ending, it particularly bites.
It would be cool if they added a second F/F romance option, a new and interesting character. We could sure use some fresh blood.

IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
12.22.2017 , 10:11 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Nefla View Post
It would be cool if they added a second F/F romance option, a new and interesting character. We could sure use some fresh blood.
I agree. They should have done that long ago, IMHO. We all know who I favor, but having just one option and assuming *everyone* who wants to play a F/F romance for the entire duration of SWTOR is going to want to romance the same exact character is pretty ridiculous.

So another F/F option or two would be really nice, and they could be daring and make one of them only available as an F/F romance. I actually wish they'd had the guts to make Lana unavailable to male players.

Dracofish's Avatar


Dracofish
12.22.2017 , 10:29 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
Yeah, there were so many things they could have done...but didn't. And they gave us this fiasco instead.

I do think that if there's an option to kill or exile one, there will also be a way to do the same for the other, in the name of balance. If they want to clear everyone out for a new expac, well, here's their chance.

But IMHO it's not going to be because Lana was in on this. As I said, I really don't see her being in on this. I think it's far more likely that there will be one critical point where the player will be forced into a situation where they choose one, like the Torian/Vette choice. OR, alternatively, the situation will turn out in such a way that neither is at risk.

I actually don't think that it will be fair if they get rid of Lana, even if Theron goes, though. F/F players have nobody else In. The. Game. If you've romanced Theron and he goes, yeah, it sucks, but if you play through another character you have other choices if you're F/M. If you're a gay man, you have another option in Koth (I know he's not popular, but technically it counts, and it's possible to play through *without* him betraying you), and the rumor has it that Arcann will also be a playersexual character.

But if they mess up Lana irreparably, and it means that the ONLY F/F option in the entirety of the game has a bad ending, it particularly bites.
I get the concern for f/f players, but if Theron goes that leaves NOBODY for f/m or m/m players who isn't a paperweight, and that's not right either. Koth and Arcann are both paperweights. Yes, Arcann is getting a romance, but his romance will not be part of the main story, because he can be dead. And yes, you can play through making meta-choices to keep Koth (which honestly, he almost always goes in my playthroughs), but he is also a paperweight...because he can be gone too. And I've heard whispers about Scourge coming back as a possible romance, which will likely be for Knights only...and even then it will still be in paperweight fashion because he won't be part of the main story.

If BW gets rid of Theron, they will be alienating *half* of the player base. Sure, ok f/m have old romances, and m/m have new romances...but those companions are not involved in the story in any way (and most of the old romances are still gone). The only two companions we have, out of everybody, who cannot be dead are Theron and Lana.

There should be equal actual story-based romanced representation for *everybody* and right now those two choices are Theron and Lana. Get rid of either, and that representation is cut in half, and that's not right, or fair, for anybody. Should they introduce more f/f options? Absolutely. But they also shouldn't punish f/m or m/m players by getting rid of the only story-based romance they have.

Which is why I don't see BW getting rid of either. I don't see choices...I see half-assed hand-waved story where Theron comes back as the "hero" because he "took down the big bad Order of creepy mask people" and Lana will either have been in on it the whole time, or realize that Theron had "reasons" and get past it.

Some folks postulate that they'll both be gone and we'll get new companions...but I don't see that happening either because of the romances. If Theron and Lana were meant to be *poofed* all along, they never would have opened them up as romances...quite frankly the main romances in the game.
Me on Ao3! MelissaGT

SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
12.22.2017 , 10:55 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
I actually don't think that it will be fair if they get rid of Lana, even if Theron goes, though. F/F players have nobody else In. The. Game.
I'm not F myself ("Steve" is not Stephanie, OK?) so I would correct one word in this. It isn't F/F *players*. It's F/F *characters*.

Among my merry crew:
* Intornos the insta60 M!Sorc was the victim of my stupidity in the Chapter IX cantina, but he's long since been toasted.
* Kylath the Commandogirl has a long and somewhat unexpected history(1), but ended up with Lana.
* Parnos the Marauder abandoned DSJ in favour of Lana.
* various other girls abandoned lovers (or didn't have them) in favour of Lana.
* Be-bop'alula, Shadow Tank Girl, went for Shoulder Boy, more fool her.
* Krallak, Rattataki Agent, re-hooked with Kaliyo. That was ... surreal.

For most of them, I'm a bit meh, but because of what's in the spoiler box in the footnote, Kylath's romance is *important*. It will not make me a happy player to find it disappears for stupid reasons.

(1) Read the spoiler box, although I'll point out in passing that it isn't a *happy* spoiler box.
Spoiler
http://www.swtor.com/r/Hg3sV2
Buda-buda-buda-buda-buda-buda-CHING!
PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW!
To go to Belsavis, you must go to Belsavis.

IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
12.22.2017 , 10:57 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Dracofish View Post
I get the concern for f/f players, but if Theron goes that leaves NOBODY for f/m or m/m players who isn't a paperweight, and that's not right either. Koth and Arcann are both paperweights. Yes, Arcann is getting a romance, but his romance will not be part of the main story, because he can be dead. And yes, you can play through making meta-choices to keep Koth (which honestly, he almost always goes in my playthroughs), but he is also a paperweight...because he can be gone too. And I've heard whispers about Scourge coming back as a possible romance, which will likely be for Knights only...and even then it will still be in paperweight fashion because he won't be part of the main story.

If BW gets rid of Theron, they will be alienating *half* of the player base. Sure, ok f/m have old romances, and m/m have new romances...but those companions are not involved in the story in any way (and most of the old romances are still gone). The only two companions we have, out of everybody, who cannot be dead are Theron and Lana.

There should be equal actual story-based romanced representation for *everybody* and right now those two choices are Theron and Lana. Get rid of either, and that representation is cut in half, and that's not right, or fair, for anybody. Should they introduce more f/f options? Absolutely. But they also shouldn't punish f/m or m/m players by getting rid of the only story-based romance they have.

Which is why I don't see BW getting rid of either. I don't see choices...I see half-assed hand-waved story where Theron comes back as the "hero" because he "took down the big bad Order of creepy mask people" and Lana will either have been in on it the whole time, or realize that Theron had "reasons" and get past it.

Some folks postulate that they'll both be gone and we'll get new companions...but I don't see that happening either because of the romances. If Theron and Lana were meant to be *poofed* all along, they never would have opened them up as romances...quite frankly the main romances in the game.
The balance has been unequal for F/F vs. F/M and even M/M for the entire game. And when people (not you, but in general) go on about how losing Theron = screwing over all the women players, or how Lana should be killed off, it does make one feel like F/F players are somehow invisible or don't count in the female player population for some reason. Losing EITHER Theron or Lana would be bad for female players/characters.

But you're right that there should be story-based romance options for all orientations, and that losing either Theron or Lana will take that away. I do hope you're right that the writers figure out a way to plausibly keep them both in the story and don't go all Game of Thrones edgy on us. You're probably right that it will be something totally inconsistent and stupid, though, and that the Commander who is supposed to be the most powerful person in the galaxy - and their advisors - will probably end up smiling, nodding and waving it away.

Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
I'm not F myself ("Steve" is not Stephanie, OK?) so I would correct one word in this. It isn't F/F *players*. It's F/F *characters*.
*shrug* I won't correct it, actually. Plenty of players do play many characters that don't reflect their own gender/orientation, and try out different romances in the game, but for many others, it does reflect. When LGBT characters first showed up, it was the first time many people saw their own orientations reflected in the game - or in Star Wars at all. Those are the players I'm concerned with.

And hey, sorry to all if this hijacked the thread from the initial discussion. Back to that now, I'll step back.

IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
12.22.2017 , 11:05 AM | #26
(combined posts)

Nefla's Avatar


Nefla
12.22.2017 , 11:39 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
I'm not F myself ("Steve" is not Stephanie, OK?) so I would correct one word in this. It isn't F/F *players*. It's F/F *characters*.
When I use "F/F players" (or M/M or M/F) I'm not speaking to the gender of the player. I can't speak for anyone else but if I play male/male romance I consider myself a male/male player. When I refer to myself, I don't say "I am a female female" or a "female male" or whatever. I play RPGs and I am an RPG player rather than an RPG

Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
The balance has been unequal for F/F vs. F/M and even M/M for the entire game. And when people (not you, but in general) go on about how losing Theron = screwing over all the women players, or how Lana should be killed off, it does make one feel like F/F players are somehow invisible or don't count in the female player population for some reason. Losing EITHER Theron or Lana would be bad for female players/characters.

But you're right that there should be story-based romance options for all orientations, and that losing either Theron or Lana will take that away. I do hope you're right that the writers figure out a way to plausibly keep them both in the story and don't go all Game of Thrones edgy on us. You're probably right that it will be something totally inconsistent and stupid, though, and that the Commander who is supposed to be the most powerful person in the galaxy - and their advisors - will probably end up smiling, nodding and waving it away.
If by gay male characters being favored over lesbian female characters for "the entire game" you mean not the base game, not Makeb, not Shadow of Revan, not Ziost, not the first 9 chapters of KotFE, and not Iokath, Umbara, or Copero...

I don't think when upset Theron romancers say "BioWare is screwing over women" by destroying the romance with Theron (and Koth, and the previous male romances) they actually mean or assume it's ALL women, just a large and upset portion. There are definitely women who do female romances either with a female character and Lana or a male character and one of the other companions or no romances at all. As for wanting to kill Lana...that has nothing to do with contempt for F/F players but rather a strong hatred of Lana. I would be satisfied not killing her if she and Theron stopped being the only characters and the only focus and became just one of a group, letting other characters be introduced and included in the story or stop being cardboard cutouts. As it stands, I already dislike and resent Lana but since she's our only non-cardboard companion she's been the only one we're interacting with and it just makes me resent her more. Even her out with other characters and I'll be fine.

IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
12.22.2017 , 12:49 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Nefla View Post
If by gay male characters being favored over lesbian female characters for "the entire game" you mean not the base game, not Makeb, not Shadow of Revan, not Ziost, not the first 9 chapters of KotFE, and not Iokath, Umbara, or Copero...
Actually, I do. On Makeb there was a character that was *only* M/M. The female counterpart on the Republic side was open to both M/F and F/F. So Bioware made an exclusively gay male character, but couldn't do the same for women.

Also, I don't know if you've ever seen the F/F "romance" on Makeb, but it's basically sexual harassment. If you play it through, the player essentially flirts with an NPC who makes it clear they aren't into you and makes up excuses not to contact you after Makeb ends. It basically turns the player into Doc. In contrast, the M/M romance with Lord Cytharat is very sweet and the player gets to be a hero for them.

In KOTFE and KOTET the player has a choice of either Theron or Koth for a M/M romance. No, I'm not going to act like two choices are great, but at least there WAS a choice. That is more than the F/F players got.

The character that is said to be returning for romance (for both genders) is Arcann, which means M/M will now have a third option, while nobody else has shown up for F/F and nobody is rumored to be doing so.

On Iokath both Lana and Theron had romance moments. On Umbara, only Theron did. On Copero, nobody did. So that leaves us with F/F - 1; M/M - 2 interactions.

So yeah, it's been slim pickings for both genders in SSR, but M/M HAS received more. Bioware pays more attention to male players and romances and that's clear here, too.

And i can certainly understand deeply hating a character and wanting them to out of your game. There are characters in this game I hate to the point where I spacebar through every dialogue and put masks on them so I don't have to see their faces. I deeply resent having to run chapters with them. And yes, as soon as I get kill options for them, they go away, most of the time.

So yeah - I get that. We're all allowed to hate whomever we want in this game, and balance is good, and we all want to play the game with our favorite characters. I'm not disagreeing or arguing with you on that point.

kukumburr's Avatar


kukumburr
12.22.2017 , 02:37 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
On Iokath both Lana and Theron had romance moments. On Umbara, only Theron did. On Copero, nobody did. So that leaves us with F/F - 1; M/M - 2 interactions.
This is incorrect, the Copero story bit has a Lana flirt for Lanamancers. It's at the very start when you're going to talk to the Chiss envoy.

I don't think Lana will become unhinged exactly, but I think she might be really mad at Theron. I don't think she'd necessarily kill him without the Commander's okay though. If Theron is doing a double agent thing I think she'd understand but still be mad that he risked the Commander's life and maybe went too far.

Personally I really like Theron and while I don't really enjoy Lana's romance that much I do like her as a character and I hope they both stick around and don't become paperweights.

Nefla's Avatar


Nefla
12.22.2017 , 03:23 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
Actually, I do. On Makeb there was a character that was *only* M/M. The female counterpart on the Republic side was open to both M/F and F/F. So Bioware made an exclusively gay male character, but couldn't do the same for women.

Also, I don't know if you've ever seen the F/F "romance" on Makeb, but it's basically sexual harassment. If you play it through, the player essentially flirts with an NPC who makes it clear they aren't into you and makes up excuses not to contact you after Makeb ends. It basically turns the player into Doc. In contrast, the M/M romance with Lord Cytharat is very sweet and the player gets to be a hero for them.

In KOTFE and KOTET the player has a choice of either Theron or Koth for a M/M romance. No, I'm not going to act like two choices are great, but at least there WAS a choice. That is more than the F/F players got.

The character that is said to be returning for romance (for both genders) is Arcann, which means M/M will now have a third option, while nobody else has shown up for F/F and nobody is rumored to be doing so.

On Iokath both Lana and Theron had romance moments. On Umbara, only Theron did. On Copero, nobody did. So that leaves us with F/F - 1; M/M - 2 interactions.

So yeah, it's been slim pickings for both genders in SSR, but M/M HAS received more. Bioware pays more attention to male players and romances and that's clear here, too.

And i can certainly understand deeply hating a character and wanting them to out of your game. There are characters in this game I hate to the point where I spacebar through every dialogue and put masks on them so I don't have to see their faces. I deeply resent having to run chapters with them. And yes, as soon as I get kill options for them, they go away, most of the time.

So yeah - I get that. We're all allowed to hate whomever we want in this game, and balance is good, and we all want to play the game with our favorite characters. I'm not disagreeing or arguing with you on that point.
Would you swap Lana and Theron's roles if you could? I would. Definitely have Theron rescue my character from carbonite and give me Theron for 9 blissfully Lana-free chapters, have Theron watching me as I sleep instead of Lana, have Lana betray me and leave instead of Theron while Theron is supportive and gives me all my missions and information. Have Theron retain his look and Lana get a nasty haircut that looks like roadkill with tire tracks smashed into it glued to her head. I'd turn Koth female too as part of the deal, his romance is nothing to write home about anyway. Not that I care about Cytharat and Lemda but I'd switch them too. Cytharat's "romance" is definitely sexually harassing to my eyes. Lemda just came across as generally grumpy and priickly meanwhile with Cytharat you're his boss and you just keep coming on to him and he seems to kind of humor you while deflecting you at the same time and then when he's severely wounded and dying instead of getting him medical attention immediately you decide to stop him and kiss him while he's doubled over in pain. What will happen to him if he refuses you? Especially if you're a dark council member or emperor's wrath. He's already disgraced and hanging by a thread because of his master's actions. Also Lemda being available for men too doesn't take away her availability for women, that's not fewer options. So far the only extra option for M/M is Koth whose romance is short, unsatisfying, and who is turned into a silent cardboard cutout.

As for what might happen in the future for romances, you should definitely start a thread asking for another F/F option in the future or maybe tweet BW about it. That's the reason Arcann may be getting romance content, because a bunch of people asked for it. I don't care about the F/F romance but I'd support it anyway, I would love to see more interesting female characters brought in as companions.