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Is cheating something I should be concerned about?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Is cheating something I should be concerned about?

Flusssaeure's Avatar


Flusssaeure
12.21.2017 , 05:07 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Drakkolich View Post
Damage Overcharge is a power up that gives you +100% damage for 45 seconds in Deathmatch. It is the single most important objective no the map, it drives the whole game mode. This is important because it makes map control very important to a team, if this didn't exist people would just setup defensive formations at their spawn and just wait for the enemy to come to them. In every Deathmatch map there is a Super Cluster of Damage Overcharge powerups that only spawn those, only 1 can be up at a time but after sometime that the last one expired a new one will spawn. This means learning these locations is how you play Deathmatch. I've made some maps and explained all this in this thread http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=745625.
Which brings up the question has any one already a read on the Iokath super clusters?

I have some points on the watch list but except from one havn't seen any thing spawning more than once yet. But the one left I am fairly certain that in C3 is a part of the super cluster. There is a bigger wreckage part which is nearly an entire ship at once. It has an open section, maybe an open hangar, that let you travel through this peace of debris from left to right, or B3 to D3. This open section has two floors, on the upper floor i have found a DO now in three matches in a row and never any other power up. Sure that is still a small sample size but after you don't get Iokath TDM all the time it is what I have to work with.

Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
12.21.2017 , 05:29 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Flusssaeure View Post
Which brings up the question has any one already a read on the Iokath super clusters?

I have some points on the watch list but except from one havn't seen any thing spawning more than once yet. But the one left I am fairly certain that in C3 is a part of the super cluster. There is a bigger wreckage part which is nearly an entire ship at once. It has an open section, maybe an open hangar, that let you travel through this peace of debris from left to right, or B3 to D3. This open section has two floors, on the upper floor i have found a DO now in three matches in a row and never any other power up. Sure that is still a small sample size but after you don't get Iokath TDM all the time it is what I have to work with.
That is indeed one of them. I'm working on it but it's slow going because last time I did the maps I had already flown hundreds of games on the map so I knew the map really well. This time I'm both trying to learn the map and map out the DO's at the same time, it's proving difficult.
DrakolichDrakolích
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Ramalina's Avatar


Ramalina
12.21.2017 , 06:31 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by LordFell View Post
On the other hand... I'm somewhat distraught that the things I'm describing are possible under the current code of GSF.
Well, these things don't disturb high skill players, because if you have a good understanding of the underlying mechanics, there are things you can do to deal with these things, even if you aren't the fastest twitch gamer on a mouse and keyboard.

Quote:
...if Damage Overcharge lets someone rip through my shields and hull so fast that I can't even react, that's not fun, that's not even "game play."
There is the warning message in large lettering across the middle of your screen that tells you then name of the player on the other team that picked up Damage Overcharge.

In the vast majority of cases that warning gives you ample time to locate the player in question and make sure they don't get a chance to shoot you. It's only a surprise if you ignore the warning.

Quote:
...if I'm using the hardest hitting ship in the game, and someone just sits there and lets me unload on them, this should have a natural consequence of being blown up.
If they are using shield abilities to mitigate your attack, they are not just sitting there and letting you unload on them. They are actively countering your attack with defensive abilities that will be on cooldown or otherwise depleted for a significant period of time before they can be used again.

Also, if you understand Gunship mechanics fully, you know that Plasma is a DOT based weapon, and is the opposite of suitable for trying to do burst damage to a target. Slug followed by Slug, or Ion followed by slug are both vastly superior choices for attempting that.

Quote:
Unrelated, but also frustrating, is "oh. fun. someone's missile locking me.... again."
Much like playing Line of Sight hide and seek with gunship fire, now playing Line of Sight hide and seek with missiles is also a full time job, though a bit easier since the warning that someone is trying to shoot you is much more obvious.

Quote:
So... maybe what I'm thinking would improve the state of GSF...
1) Balancing; but this is an ongoing process. Numbers should always be looked at, and tweaked.
Very true, but understand that if the developers continue to pursue genuine balance, the result you experience is going to likely be that you will be surprised by ship builds and components that you've rarely seen and don't understand well suddenly becoming highly deadly threats in new and interesting ways.

That's what happened in 5.5 for the most part. Ships that used to be weak enough to ignore gained the ability to go toe to toe with the best ships. If you found 5.5 to be an unpleasant surprise, further well designed balance changes will be more of the same. There are plenty of components that got passed over in 5.5 that could be buffed to turn previously unviable builds and ships into competitive killing machines. Meaning that it would be more things you'd need to learn in order to counter them effectively.

If you didn't like the effect of a large set of balance improvements, you might want to think twice before asking for more.

Quote:
2) The way Overcharge boosts work could use a hard look.... or, honestly, are these something we even need (or want) in game? I think I'd be happier if flights were ship to ship, no performance enhancing needed.
Drako covered some of the benefits in TDM gameplay, I reminded you that there is a very explicit warning of DO pickups, and if you want to look at Drako's map to DO spawn locations you could use the aces' preferred method of dealing with DO powerups which is to scoop them up for your own use before the enemy team can get them. Monitoring the mini-map for DO's is an important part of high level TDM play.



Quote:
3) I would appreciate it if, when I use a missile breaker, that I had a few extra seconds of immunity to Lock. It feels like as soon as I come out of my barrel roll (et al) and straighten out, I'm almost instantly getting the beep beep beeps. And when I say a few extra seconds, I do mean like... 3.
Like the 3 seconds of immunity that Barrel Roll has given after breaking a lock since GSF first released? Not to mention Retro Thrusters, Koigran Turn, and Snap Turn (Koigran and Snap both having received buffs to the duration with 5.5 I believe).


GSF has a fairly large and complicated ruleset, and if you don't spend time on reading the advanced tooltips, have a good eye for the math that results from the rules in terms of calculating effects, and have some experience with how things that should work a certain way do or don't in actual gameplay, then the result can seem like an impenetrable mystery. Most players never get beyond that stage.

Fortunately, just about all of that has been figured out, and there are various resources the community has made explaining it, so there's the same amount of content to learn to master it, but you don't have to figure out the answers yourself, you just have to look them up. It saves a lot of time in becoming a more competitive player.

Even better, those of us that think that figuring all that out is almost as much fun as flying GSF matches are always happy to answer any questions that you're having trouble finding answers to in various guides. Just ask, and a bunch of people will help.
"A padawan's master sets their Jedi trial, Rajivari set mine."
- Zhe Lian, Sage.

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Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
12.21.2017 , 06:55 PM | #14
All great points Ramalina, just wanted to remind you incase you forgot that Barrel roll actually has 4 seconds of Missile break immunity now! It got buffed as well
DrakolichDrakolích
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LordFell's Avatar


LordFell
12.21.2017 , 09:53 PM | #15
I think what my complaint is... and what I'm seeing when a game goes one-sided... is that the overwhelming team is pushing back hard enough that they're camping spawns, and since they're now camping spawn points, naturally they own the map. If they control the entire map, they control all the power ups. This team probably has the upperhand when it comes to number of good pilots and/or mastered ships... and this is just putting another insurmountable advantage on top of their already insurmountable advantages.

...right now, I don't think that having access to power ups is something that's necessary to give an "offensive team" access to powers to break open a defensive position. What it seems like, to me, is giving the ravenous wolverines access to barbecue sauce. Which is to say, it's just making spawn camping even worse.


Does your 3 (or 4) seconds of immunity to locks start from when you finish your engine maneuver, or from when you finish it?

LordFell's Avatar


LordFell
12.21.2017 , 10:00 PM | #16
Oh, for the record... a LOT of the balances really benefit my style of play. For the most part, I'm enjoying flying more. I'm an old enough player that the difference between flying better and flying smarter really matters... and when it comes to component and copilot choices I made a lot of "this isn't ideal, but it's what will work best for me" kind of choices, and with the changes to balance 5.6 brought, those sub-optimal choices are now entirely viable.

Unfortunately... while "playing smarter" is something I need to do to be successful, I also know that I'm not willing or able to put in a whole lot of study into the math and maps of GSF. I mean, I'll continue to improve as I practice and get muscle memory for my best ships... but I think that I'm never going to be a top flyer... which I am generally OK with, provided I'm having fun. I think when I have a night that's less fun than other nights are nights that spawn threads like these.

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
12.21.2017 , 10:08 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by LordFell View Post
Does your 3 (or 4) seconds of immunity to locks start from when you finish your engine maneuver, or from when you finish it?
The 4 seconds of lock-on immunity starts from the moment you press the button for the engine maneuver. FYI Its five seconds for snap turn now.
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Kraagien's Avatar


Kraagien
12.22.2017 , 03:40 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by LordFell View Post
I think what my complaint is... and what I'm seeing when a game goes one-sided... is that the overwhelming team is pushing back hard enough that they're camping spawns, and since they're now camping spawn points, naturally they own the map. If they control the entire map, they control all the power ups. This team probably has the upperhand when it comes to number of good pilots and/or mastered ships... and this is just putting another insurmountable advantage on top of their already insurmountable advantages.

...right now, I don't think that having access to power ups is something that's necessary to give an "offensive team" access to powers to break open a defensive position. What it seems like, to me, is giving the ravenous wolverines access to barbecue sauce. Which is to t say, it's just making spawn camping even worse.
If you play enough matches against bomber balls in TDM, you will probably find that the DOs are truly essential to a high level of play, to keep the gameplay dynamic. DOs keep the game moving. Now, of course, in a low-level match, the DOs are picked up by the single Veteran in the whole match and he or she will smash through the stock Blackbolts and Rycers with BLCs.

With this, you have actually pointed out something that is important to keep in mind: GSF is not balanced around low-level matches. GSF is an arcade-like, sports-community-featuring, very, very high-paced game that happens to be in an MMO. If you slow down gameplay by, for example, removing DOs or lowering burst damage, the game will get boring for most people who seriously spend all their time in SWTOR either in-match or in-queue.

The only way to keep up is to get faster, and for that you need practice. Trust me, if you persevere, you'll get there. But for now, you indeed should keep track of the DO announcements and avoid that person if you can. Maybe in the future you can try to keep him occupied without dying for the full duration of his DO. That's not easy though, and you'll die the first hundred times you try.

If you want to find out more about the abilities deploy against you, so that you can more easily counter them when you are hit with them again, then check out the GSF Parser. It slows down gameplay after the match is already over, and offers various features to analyze your performance.
RedFantom - Developer of the GSF Parser

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Ramalina's Avatar


Ramalina
12.22.2017 , 09:04 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by LordFell View Post
I think what my complaint is... and what I'm seeing when a game goes one-sided... is that the overwhelming team is pushing back hard enough that they're camping spawns, and since they're now camping spawn points, naturally they own the map. If they control the entire map, they control all the power ups. This team probably has the upperhand when it comes to number of good pilots and/or mastered ships... and this is just putting another insurmountable advantage on top of their already insurmountable advantages.

...right now, I don't think that having access to power ups is something that's necessary to give an "offensive team" access to powers to break open a defensive position. What it seems like, to me, is giving the ravenous wolverines access to barbecue sauce. Which is to say, it's just making spawn camping even worse.
There are a variety of approaches to this sort of situation.

The one that I find least effective is to just spawn in normally and try to use the capital ship as cover. They don't really offer great cover and if outnumbered expected survival time is fairly low.

What I generally consider the most effective, is to look at the map, pick the capital ship with the fewest number of enemies near it, and then spawn in a scout, preferably one with Power Dive and a bunch of engine endurance upgrade choices. Personally I'd tend toward a build based on Rocket Pods. Then in your very fast and very evasive ship go hunting for Damage Overcharges.

In that sort of game the enemy team tends to push really far forward, leaving the bulk of the map pretty empty. That means you can often grab an engine powerup, and a shield powerup, enabling you to fly around hunting DOs quite safely. Then when you find one, hit the enemy ships from behind their lines. Picking off careless gunships is a particularly good option. If the opposition isn't that great, you can snag a lot of kills that way, if they are really good as an entire team, then a bunch of them will come after you when they see the DO warning, and even if you don't score a kill, it does take a tremendous amount of pressure off of the rest of your team.

You can also try a similar strategy with a Condor/Jurgoran gunship or with one of the strikes, but with lower evasion and lower engine endurance it's a little bit harder to make it work with them.

If you can pull it off, then the DO allows you to potentially do a lot to even up the odds in a way that would be impossible without DOs. Whether it's allowing you to get kills, or forcing a large portion of the other team to stop camping and deal with you as a threat, the DO is a big advantage that you can add to the balance of a game to help a trailing team catch up.

Drako and Verain like to talk about the importance of map control, and based on the size of the map, if the other team is really controlling the map, that forces a bunch of them to be in places where they're too far from your spawn points to be able to camp them. At least it does if you're being sneaky, fast, and slipping past their lines.



An alternative strategy that's often moderately effective, especially on Lost shipyards where the LOS terrain is more conveniently located, is to spawn a gunship at the least pressured capital ship, and then try to make it to the edge of the nearest cover on the main map. Then move from cover to cover and try to set up a position where you can snipe the enemy from the side or from behind. If you can get 3 or more decent gunship pilots to do this together it can be very effective, even turn the game around, but if you're on your own it's likely that it will just attract the attention of a scout or strike that will come over to deal with you. If doing this solo the Condor/Jurgoran is again a good choice due to better maneuverability and defenses compared to the other gunships if you expect to be under pressure.


Of course with team work, you can combine the two. If a bunch of the other team are distracted by a scout playing Pac-Man with DO powerups, that's a great opportunity for a group of gunships to sneak out to cover and start giving each other mutual supporting fire.


As with any sort of team vs team contest involving skill, if the other team as a group is sufficiently more effective than your group, no amount of skill may be enough to allow one person to compensate for the rest of their team's deficiencies. In those cases all you can do is try to do your best, and make the other team work for the win as much as you can.

Maybe also hop into /GSF and see if you can round up a few people willing to try working as a team for the next match.
"A padawan's master sets their Jedi trial, Rajivari set mine."
- Zhe Lian, Sage.

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LordFell's Avatar


LordFell
12.22.2017 , 04:46 PM | #20
I'll have to try to do that... at the moment, my current response to a fight that's gone one-sided is to spawn a gunship at an spawn point that's not being swarmed, and try to snipe the swarmed spawn points... maybe I take the pressure off, most likely the match is a lost cause, and I'm just hoping to score a revenge kill or two.

...and yeah, I'm in /GSF. If I'm not going to join a voice protocol, I don't really know that grouping is all that useful, although I will group, because... why not?