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Is cheating something I should be concerned about?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Is cheating something I should be concerned about?

LordFell's Avatar


LordFell
12.18.2017 , 02:50 PM | #1
...actually, the title should suggest to you it's something I'm already concerned about. I don't necessarily know if this is a thing, but lately I've left some matches wondering about it.

Like... I've come out of the hanger, new ship... untouched hull, fresh shields, and been 100 to Zero'd in a heartbeat with just a few blaster shots. That doesn't strike me as something anyone should be able to do.

Conversely, I've also lined someone up with my gunship (fully maxed railguns) hammered the target with a full charged Plasma, and followed up with a full charged Slug... and my target's still standing, so I hit'em again with another well charged plasma. I've got damn near 4K damage floating on my screen (scored 3 good hits in about 5 seconds) and... my target doesn't die. And again, I'm left wondering how that's even possible without some sort of ... uh... contraband modifications.
...and, to add to my concern here, of course the target I'm looking at isn't a slow moving bomber with an extra ton of hull armour and shields for days... it's a strike fighter that's racking up kills and kills and kills with blasters and torps. I would think that Rock Paper Scissors should be coming into play here; this person has DPS like Scissors and displayed durability like Rock in defiance of the trinity.

Incidents that have me wondering about whether it's possible to cheat in GSF haven't all been the same person, and I'm certainly not going to name names. I've certainly left matches knowing that I just got outflown by someone who's better than I am... but it's only recently that I've left matches thinking "that shouldn't be possible, I wonder if that person was cheating."

Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
12.18.2017 , 05:49 PM | #2
Everything you just described is very very easily explained by game mechanics. What you're describing has nothing to do with cheating at all.

Strikes fighters are now the tankiest ships in the game, they can absorb more damage then Bombers.

Just to give you an example a T3 Strike (Clarion/Imperium) with Directional shields, a Large Reactor, the 10% extra shield crew passive and Reinforced armor has 2210 Shields per arc and 1830 Hull. This is all before they can actually rotate their shields to get even more shields towards the arc you are firing on. Meaning It could take up to 4 Full slugs to kill that ship, if they rotate their shields properly. Not to mention if they also have Hydrospanner and Repair probes they could actually be healing while you're shooting at them and might be able to absorb even another shot. On top of that if they have a Shield Power up in Deathmatch their shields are regenerating at 100+ a second while you're firing meaning that by the third Slug they have regenerated almost 1000 shields.


As for being 100-0'd by blaster shots, likely Damage Overcharge was involved and you didn't notice. With Damage Overcharge it takes only 3 Heavy Laser shots to kill a Gunship from full health. Quads and Pods Scout builds have been bursting down Gunships in under 2 seconds for years.


The things you're describing aren't even that rare, if you have the ability to record I can go over the video with you and explain exactly what's going on. If you don't then really try to watch what ship/weapons were killing you the next time you see this happen maybe take a screenshot if you think of it and we can explain in better detail what's going on for you.

I hope the helped
DrakolichDrakolÝch
The BastionTwitch Stream

LykaiaSovereign's Avatar


LykaiaSovereign
12.18.2017 , 09:21 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Drakkolich View Post
As for being 100-0'd by blaster shots, likely Damage Overcharge was involved and you didn't notice. With Damage Overcharge it takes only 3 Heavy Laser shots to kill a Gunship from full health. Quads and Pods Scout builds have been bursting down Gunships in under 2 seconds for years.


The things you're describing aren't even that rare, if you have the ability to record I can go over the video with you and explain exactly what's going on. If you don't then really try to watch what ship/weapons were killing you the next time you see this happen maybe take a screenshot if you think of it and we can explain in better detail what's going on for you.

I hope the helped
what would u use against that as a bomber if i may ask? like... seeker mines or what? im kinda bad at gsf and wanted to sue the occasion and grab some helpful insight from You :P
http://www.swtor.com/r/kwbg4P My Ref Link
If You find me helpful, You can help me as well.
Thanks in advance

Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
12.18.2017 , 10:25 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by LykaiaSovereign View Post
what would u use against that as a bomber if i may ask? like... seeker mines or what? im kinda bad at gsf and wanted to sue the occasion and grab some helpful insight from You :P
When playing Bomber the idea is to control an area of space, you take a section of the map and make it yours. You litter it with Drones and/or Mines and use that terrain to give you an advantage if anyone does come into it. This gives your team an area they know that if they are in trouble they can go to and you will help them.

Once you've decided on a home you don't want to just stay put and do nothing though, you want to be looking in any direction for teammates that are nearby engaged with someone. The whole idea here is to create unfair advantages for your teammates, so you can help take down the enemies.


If an enemy picks up Damage Overcharge and is heading straight for you, you immediately start flying defensively. Try to keep terrain between him and you. You don't even really have to fire back at all just keep on the move try to weave him into your mines and/or drone if possible. The idea is to keep him busy until his 100% extra Damage power up wears off.

Hopefully your team notices how much help you've been giving them all games by creating a safe space for them and is helping peel for you, if not well you just gotta keep putting terrain between them and you until your deployables wear them down or they get fed up.



All that being said Bombers are actually in a pretty terrible spot in the meta right now, they are easily the weakest class currently. That doesn't mean you can't be useful in one, but it does mean that unless that exact playstyle is what you really like about the game, you probably want to try some new flying styles to help your team more.

I hope that helped
DrakolichDrakolÝch
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Kinsha's Avatar


Kinsha
12.19.2017 , 12:01 PM | #5
If that strike activated quick charge shields and had the tier 3 left component unlocked, its entirely possible that the strike restored/regenerated all the shield damage you inflicted with plasma railgun before your slug hit. In addition, the max shield capacity was enhanced as well. So the only lasting damage you did in that scenario was from the shield piercing. Roughly half of that damage would be repaired by hydro spanner.

Stellarcrusade's Avatar


Stellarcrusade
12.21.2017 , 09:40 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Drakkolich View Post
All that being said Bombers are actually in a pretty terrible spot in the meta right now, they are easily the weakest class currently. That doesn't mean you can't be useful in one, but it does mean that unless that exact playstyle is what you really like about the game, you probably want to try some new flying styles to help your team more.
I agree with this. When they decided to buff strikes to enourmously BS levels in an attempt to make strikes more viable (which worked, mission accomplished), not sure they considered the dynamic shift that would affect the other classes. Most everyone runs fighters now which completely eliminates bombers from viability, and gunships are still viable but maybe half as much as before. And most people who were running the OP battle scout switched to the new OP, so you do not see nearly as many scouts being played as before. In reality our main issue with classes before the changes were we only had 3 viable classes. But the fix to that has caused now that we only have 1.5 viable classes. Even though we have an interesting "new" ship class to explore, it actually doubled the problem of class viability.

Strikes have always been a good anti-bomber, but the new BS strikes and the fact that most everyone is flying them makes bombers really a non-choice. Not only do strikes quite adequately replace some of the role of bombers in many cases/builds with the armor (and even heals), they also nullify any use of bomber. Because bombers typically have no missile breaks, are slow lumbering garbage scows so difficult to break locks by LoS, and bombers do not have mines anymore because every 1.8 seconds a new EMP lands.

I'm not saying a bomber doesn't help a team, since bombers are rare now, a hyperspace beacon can really help. But why would someone choose to be the bomber on the team? 0 kills, 6 deaths, but at least I helped my team win with my hyperspace beacon. ? Kinda boring. The bigger issue I think is, bombers were a good way for new players to get acclimated to the game while they learn how to target and other game mechanics. Don't tell me missile locks replace the auto-targeting mines for new players because it can be a challenge to teach some new players even how to use a missile.

Its just the new balance, it could be fixed I guess but we'd have to give bombers a missile break, or a natural 100% missile resitance or change it so that EMPs cannot kill more than 2 mines at a time or something creative like that, I do not know the answer.

I agree with Drak also, doubtful there is cheating, its just the game now. The new game is: fly fighter. That's it.

Greezt's Avatar


Greezt
12.21.2017 , 10:27 AM | #7
The game is absolutely not "fly fighter". Every TDM between good players I've seen so far devolved into gunship chess. Strikes are still weak compared to gunships in TDM, and nothing has changed that. All you need is one team to start swapping, and you're in the old meta.

As for Dom, T2 scouts are still the best at controlling nodes. Strikes are definitely useful in this mode, but saying the new meta is "fly fighter" is completely wrong.

LordFell's Avatar


LordFell
12.21.2017 , 03:13 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Drakkolich View Post
Everything you just described is very very easily explained by game mechanics. What you're describing has nothing to do with cheating at all.
I feel kind of ambivalent about this answer, to be honest.

I tend to think that the Star Fighter community is a good group; that being part of it has more in common with being in a sports league than the PvP community which can be toxic. I've certainly seen toxicity in my GSF channel, but I've ignored all of ONE person for toxicity (and another one person because I found their name to be particularly offensive). So, I'm kind of relieved to be told...that no, nobody is out there hacking the code and cheating their way to wins.

On the other hand... I'm somewhat distraught that the things I'm describing are possible under the current code of GSF.
...if Damage Overcharge lets someone rip through my shields and hull so fast that I can't even react, that's not fun, that's not even "game play."
...if I'm using the hardest hitting ship in the game, and someone just sits there and lets me unload on them, this should have a natural consequence of being blown up.

Unrelated, but also frustrating, is "oh. fun. someone's missile locking me.... again."

So... maybe what I'm thinking would improve the state of GSF...
1) Balancing; but this is an ongoing process. Numbers should always be looked at, and tweaked.
2) The way Overcharge boosts work could use a hard look.... or, honestly, are these something we even need (or want) in game? I think I'd be happier if flights were ship to ship, no performance enhancing needed.
3) I would appreciate it if, when I use a missile breaker, that I had a few extra seconds of immunity to Lock. It feels like as soon as I come out of my barrel roll (et al) and straighten out, I'm almost instantly getting the beep beep beeps. And when I say a few extra seconds, I do mean like... 3.

MaximilianPower's Avatar


MaximilianPower
12.21.2017 , 03:18 PM | #9
I agree with Greezt, SFs are most definitely not the sole viable option. Gunships are everywhere in TDM. I've seen fewer battlescouts than pre-5.5, yes, but the good ones still wreak havoc. The burst damage is still there. Also...
Quote: Originally Posted by Stellarcrusade View Post
I'm not saying a bomber doesn't help a team, since bombers are rare now, a hyperspace beacon can really help. But why would someone choose to be the bomber on the team? 0 kills, 6 deaths, but at least I helped my team win with my hyperspace beacon. ? Kinda boring.
...actually, yes, I'd say that players interested in wins should (and do) end up flying bombers. Their numbers have never been sexy. But to this day, a beacon bomber in a dom, and a heals bomber in a TDM, still do help their teams quite a bit. Coordinated teams almost always have somebody in a bomber, because they know what it takes to win.

That said, I do agree that it's a much tougher "learning ship" than before. But on the flip side, a basic T1 strike is probably the best stock ship in the game. Pre-5.5, newer players taking a Rycer/Starguard would instantly become foodships...now, at least, they can survive a bit longer and maybe actually deal some damage.

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Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
12.21.2017 , 03:45 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by LordFell View Post
I feel kind of ambivalent about this answer, to be honest.

I tend to think that the Star Fighter community is a good group; that being part of it has more in common with being in a sports league than the PvP community which can be toxic. I've certainly seen toxicity in my GSF channel, but I've ignored all of ONE person for toxicity (and another one person because I found their name to be particularly offensive). So, I'm kind of relieved to be told...that no, nobody is out there hacking the code and cheating their way to wins.

On the other hand... I'm somewhat distraught that the things I'm describing are possible under the current code of GSF.
...if Damage Overcharge lets someone rip through my shields and hull so fast that I can't even react, that's not fun, that's not even "game play."
...if I'm using the hardest hitting ship in the game, and someone just sits there and lets me unload on them, this should have a natural consequence of being blown up.

Unrelated, but also frustrating, is "oh. fun. someone's missile locking me.... again."

So... maybe what I'm thinking would improve the state of GSF...
1) Balancing; but this is an ongoing process. Numbers should always be looked at, and tweaked.
2) The way Overcharge boosts work could use a hard look.... or, honestly, are these something we even need (or want) in game? I think I'd be happier if flights were ship to ship, no performance enhancing needed.
3) I would appreciate it if, when I use a missile breaker, that I had a few extra seconds of immunity to Lock. It feels like as soon as I come out of my barrel roll (et al) and straighten out, I'm almost instantly getting the beep beep beeps. And when I say a few extra seconds, I do mean like... 3.
Damage Overcharge is a power up that gives you +100% damage for 45 seconds in Deathmatch. It is the single most important objective no the map, it drives the whole game mode. This is important because it makes map control very important to a team, if this didn't exist people would just setup defensive formations at their spawn and just wait for the enemy to come to them. In every Deathmatch map there is a Super Cluster of Damage Overcharge powerups that only spawn those, only 1 can be up at a time but after sometime that the last one expired a new one will spawn. This means learning these locations is how you play Deathmatch. I've made some maps and explained all this in this thread http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=745625.


As far as balancing the numbers is concerned they are actually really well balanced right now, there is always a few tweaks here and there to make but it's as good as it's ever been in GSF right now.


@Stellarcrusade

The meta is way more open then it's ever been. I'm not sure why you think the game is only fly Strike fighter that really isn't the case. Scouts and Gunships are still really good, both of which require far more defensive flying then before which is why many players are struggling to adapt to the new meta with them.

Bombers while I think are the weakest class right now are nowhere near as awful as Strikes fighters used to be in the last meta.


Also "just fly Strike" is a really off putting statement. The reason you are seeing so many Strikes isn't only because they are really good right now, it's because of just how many different builds you can have for them. GSF is a game about specialists, and right now you can make Strikes all sorts of different specialists. The reason we're seeing so many Strikes in the meta is because of how many different viable builds are now available to them. You might have 5 Strike fighters on your team but each and everyone could be doing very different jobs.

If we were seeing whole teams of exactly the same build of Strike fighter at that point I'd start to consider that maybe that specific ship is too powerful but right now all sorts of different tools are being used and because of it we have the richest meta we've ever seen.
DrakolichDrakolÝch
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