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Women have to slap men in order to appear strong? Spoilers

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Women have to slap men in order to appear strong? Spoilers

Kaedusz's Avatar


Kaedusz
12.20.2017 , 02:11 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Ylliarus View Post
Or people could just let go of their narrowminded, ancient and outdated views on gender, race and orientation and try to broaden their perspectives. There are sentient gas bubbles in Star Wars, are people seriously bothered by things like skin colour or what gender does what or who slaps whom? Humans are supposed to be an intelligent race, well, I don't see that reflected in reality with how tightly some cling onto racist, sexist and discriminatory views even in fiction like Star Wars.
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Ylliarus's Avatar


Ylliarus
12.20.2017 , 02:19 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaedusz View Post
Oh give me a break, you only say that because you have no arguments to bring against what I said thus you derail it with a meme. You claim it has nothing to do with the discussion and misses the point while it hits the very core of it all: the fact that people get offended because fiction and fantasy don't answer their own views and ideals.

People (read "some men") in this thread are offended Leia slapped Poe (which she had all the reason to because Poe behaved trigger-happy and recklessly) while it's totally fine that Vader chocked officers to death because they failed him, Snoke blasted Kylo away with what seemed to be Force Lightning because he had failed him. There is a discrepancy here that some of the posters are glad to ignore, because it wouldn't suit their rather sexist and discriminatory arguments otherwise. According to them it's fine if men express dominance, but when women do it? They create threads like this.

To return to why what I said hits the very core of this entire thing: if the OP didn't bring his narrowminded views on genders with him into the theatre, there wouldn't have been a single issue with this subject and this thread wouldn't have existed. The scene would be simply a reaction to disobedience and recklessness that could have endangered the entire fleet, just like Vader reacted to the failure of his officers or Snoke to the failure of Kylo post-TFA.
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Seireeni's Avatar


Seireeni
12.20.2017 , 02:27 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Ylliarus View Post
Oh give me a break, you only say that because you have no arguments to bring against what I said thus you derail it with a meme. You claim it has nothing to do with the discussion and misses the point while it hits the very core of it all: the fact that people get offended because fiction and fantasy don't answer their own views and ideals.

People (read "some men") in this thread are offended Leia slapped Poe (which she had all the reason to because Poe behaved trigger-happy and recklessly) while it's totally fine that Vader chocked officers to death because they failed him, Snoke blasted Kylo away with what seemed to be Force Lightning because he had failed him. There is a discrepancy here that some of the posters are glad to ignore, because it wouldn't suit their rather sexist and discriminatory arguments otherwise. According to them it's fine if men express dominance, but when women do it? They create threads like this.

To return to why what I said hits the very core of this entire thing: if the OP didn't bring his narrowminded views on genders with him into the theatre, there wouldn't have been a single issue with it. The scene would be simply a reaction to disobedience and recklessness that could have endangered the entire fleet.
Once again, I have not seen the new movie, but the difference between Vader choking officers and Leia slapping someone most likely is that Leia is portrayed as a "good guy". Vader chokes people who fail, and we're supposed to think "oh, he's evil, he needs to be stopped". I have a funny feeling Leia's behavior was not portrayed this way.
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Ylliarus's Avatar


Ylliarus
12.20.2017 , 02:38 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Seireeni View Post
Once again, I have not seen the new movie, but the difference between Vader choking officers and Leia slapping someone most likely is that Leia is portrayed as a "good guy". Vader chokes people who fail, and we're supposed to think "oh, he's evil, he needs to be stopped". I have a funny feeling Leia's behavior was not portrayed this way.
Still don't see that the new movies are showing not everything is black or white? There are shades of gray, even with the good guys. Someone can be good at heart but to show others that disobedience can't be tolerated or recklessness one has to make a firm stand. Have we forgotten Leia's temper in A New Hope? How she spoke to Han Solo? She hasn't lost that fire within her so it's not character breaking. A breach of character would have been if she ordered Poe's execution, but a slap in the face? When I bet in the military in real life disobedience and recklessness are dealt with in a more severe way? People have to learn to differentiate in situations such as this.
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Seireeni's Avatar


Seireeni
12.20.2017 , 02:42 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Ylliarus View Post
Still don't see that the new movies are showing not everything is black or white? There are shades of gray, even with the good guys. Someone can be good at heart but to show others that disobedience can't be tolerated or recklessness one has to make a firm stand. Have we forgotten Leia's temper in A New Hope? How she spoke to Han Solo? She hasn't lost that fire within her so it's not character breaking. A breach of character would have been if she ordered Poe's execution, but a slap in the face? When I bet in the military in real life disobedience and recklessness are dealt with in a more severe way? People have to learn to differentiate in situations such as this.
If they wanted to portray Leia as having the kind of anger management issues/poor impulse control/not knowing how to discipline someone without resorting to physical violence, then sure, slap is a great way. But OP never said, to my knowledge, that Leia acted out of character -- only that this does not make Leia a "strong woman".
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Ylliarus's Avatar


Ylliarus
12.20.2017 , 02:55 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Seireeni View Post
If they wanted to portray Leia as having the kind of anger management issues/poor impulse control/not knowing how to discipline someone without resorting to physical violence, then sure, slap is a great way. But OP never said, to my knowledge, that Leia acted out of character -- only that this does not make Leia a "strong woman".
But that is the entire issue here, it has nothing to do with genders, or shouldn't have anything to do with it. If it was General Leius Organa we were talking about who slapped a subordinate soldier who disobeyed a direct order from a military superior, the OP would have shrugged and thought "that's how it goes in the military, even with the good guys". They have created an issue for themselves by taking their, what I consider to be, sexist views into the threatre and being offended by this, while the original intention was COMPLETELY a different story. Leia is a General, she had to show disobedience or recklessness wasn't rewarded. A slap to the face really is nothing compared to what can happen in the military.
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Kaedusz's Avatar


Kaedusz
12.20.2017 , 03:00 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Ylliarus View Post
snip
And yet nobody would have any problems if femshep slaps someone. Why is that , do you think?

As i said before you completely miss the point, and see something in the posts in this thread because you are looking for it, yet it isn't really there. It seems like you want to fabricate an insult so you can propagate whatever political ******** you're spewing.
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Ylliarus's Avatar


Ylliarus
12.20.2017 , 03:06 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Kaedusz View Post
And yet nobody would have any problems if femshep slaps someone. Why is that , do you think?
It is exactly why I think there should be no issue with this, you prove with that statement that the OP has created a problem for himself and subsequently a problem here on the forums where there was none before. Femshep can be played as a good person, but when they act as Commander Shepard they have to set an example at times. The same applies to Leia, she is kind and good at heart, but when she acts as General Organa, she has to set an example when disobedience and recklessness are displayed.

So you see, you just proved my point with the comparison between femshep and Leia, where there was no issue before the OP created one.

Quote: Originally Posted by Kaedusz View Post
As i said before you completely miss the point, and see something in the posts in these thread because you are looking for it, yet it isn't really there. It seems like you want to fabricate an insult so you can propagate whatever political ******** your spewing.
You're pulling politics into it, not me. You claim me to propagate political views because you lack the arguments to rationally debate with me.
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Seireeni's Avatar


Seireeni
12.20.2017 , 03:08 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Ylliarus View Post
But that is the entire issue here, it has nothing to do with genders, or shouldn't have anything to do with it. If it was General Leius Organa we were talking about who slapped a subordinate soldier who disobeyed a direct order from a military superior, the OP would have shrugged and thought "that's how it goes in the military, even with the good guys". They have created an issue for themselves by taking their, what I consider to be, sexist views into the threatre and being offended by this, while the original intention was COMPLETELY a different story. Leia is a General, she had to show disobedience or recklessness wasn't rewarded. A slap to the face really is nothing compared to what can happen in the military.
I feel you're showing your own bias -- "criticism of this issue must be due to sexism" -- and failing to see what is actually being said here. What I read was that OP either doesn't consider Leia and Rey behaving in a way a strong female character would (therefore making them not to be strong female characters), or is feeling that people making the movies are trying to portray them as strong female leads and failing at it (which seemed more likely to me). I don't see either of those opinions being sexist.
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Ylliarus's Avatar


Ylliarus
12.20.2017 , 03:20 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Seireeni View Post
I feel you're showing your own bias -- "criticism of this issue must be due to sexism" -- and failing to see what is actually being said here. What I read was that OP either doesn't consider Leia and Rey behaving in a way a strong female character would (therefore making them not to be strong female characters), or is feeling that people making the movies are trying to portray them as strong female leads and failing at it (which seemed more likely to me). I don't see either of those opinions being sexist.
Then you aren't taking into consideration the posts the OP made in different threads that did clearly express a sexist nature. I see that the post I am specifically referring to now is currently deleted by staff as I was one of the people who had reported it for very sexist remarks as I cannot seem to find it at the moment. This pleases me because it shows we have active responders to forum reports and that sexism isn't tolerated.

So yes, perhaps you miss some context which explains why I view the OP's views as sexist. I also note that the OP is rather silent so I wouldn't be surprised if he was banned. Without the context I speak of the tone of this thread sounds different, but with the context, it simply is a continuation of his previous posts and sexist tone.
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