I think it's high time this be implemented. There is literally no difference in the story between the two advanced classes of any given base class. We should be able to change our character's advanced class without losing our character's progress with the base class. If Bioware makes it the same cartel coin cost as a new character boost, you can't say they won't do it because they're trying to sell the new character boosts. I'm sure plenty of people would sooner buy an advanced class change token than they would buy a new character boost. Why not sell them?

I think it's high time this be implemented. There is literally no difference in the story between the two advanced classes of any given base class. We should be able to change our character's advanced class without losing our character's progress with the base class. If Bioware makes it the same cartel coin cost as a new character boost, you can't say they won't do it because they're trying to sell the new character boosts. I'm sure plenty of people would sooner buy an advanced class change token than they would buy a new character boost. Why not sell them?

There are no advanced classes or base classes any more. The former advanced classes are now just classes, while the former base classes are now, in effect, little more than the names of a story shared between two classes.

 

Think: can you play a Trooper? Not a Vanguard, and not a Commando, but just a plain old Trooper. Back in the day, before 5.0 came out (and more so before 4.0 came out), it was made abundantly clear that once you chose and advanced class, you were stuck with it. Back then, such a token would have bent in-game lore a bit, since the NPCs you talked to on the Fleet / Coru / DK to begin the AC selection process were very clear - once chosen, there's no going back. And there were warnings.

 

No, you have to treat this as a (restricted) class change, and you have to at least think about how the gear would work. What happens to a Commando's cannon when he becomes a Vanguard? A Merc's off-hand pistol? Etc. I'm not asking you to solve that, and I'm not saying it's *hard* to solve(1), just that you should think about it.

 

And it has long been the case that they have refused to do this. Saying that you think it's high time it was built isn't going to change that. (Although that said, they did relent on the point of Legacy Storage credits, so perhaps they will.)

 

(1) It's not hard to solve, but there are a few wrinkles in each of the solutions. Allods Online solves it by rewriting your gear to the gear appropriate for the new class, but there is less "CM gear" and "unique non-collections gear dropped from bosses" in Allods. What if I wanted to keep that Esseles Assault Cannon (since they don't drop in the flashpoint any more) that I was using? It just got nuked.

It's simple. The token would include a new weapon set. All the other gear is the same. And there is still such a thing as base classes and advanced classes whether they call them that still or not. There might be sixteen classes, but there's only eight stories. To get the Legendary Player status, you have to complete all eight stories. You don't have to level all sixteen classes. Changing from a Vanguard to a Commando is not going to affect the Trooper story at all. It's just one step up from changing your discipline. Given how much they've caved on everything else they said they wouldn't, I could see them adding this functionality at some point. It's one more thing they can sell on the Cartel Market.

I think it could be done...I might even go so far as to suggest that they allow characters to change class at will once they complete their class story, certainly with some respec cost involved. Perhaps a very high one.

 

One could pay to unlock the ability in Legacy, then perhaps have the ability to change to either build. There would be a cost to unlock and a cost to change.

 

There would still be no cost to redo your utilities.

 

I think they could design a special mechanic to do so.

 

The trick would be to make sure a player that does it is an experienced one (has been playing for a long time) and it represents a good credit sink.

Don't they already have a solution for this, with the new 70 tokens? Just make the advanced class you want, burn that token, and voila. You've got the right gear, the right weapon, and as a bonus you even have the other advanced class you rolled in the first place.

It's simple. The token would include a new weapon set. All the other gear is the same. And there is still such a thing as base classes and advanced classes whether they call them that still or not. There might be sixteen classes, but there's only eight stories. To get the Legendary Player status, you have to complete all eight stories. You don't have to level all sixteen classes. Changing from a Vanguard to a Commando is not going to affect the Trooper story at all. It's just one step up from changing your discipline. Given how much they've caved on everything else they said they wouldn't, I could see them adding this functionality at some point. It's one more thing they can sell on the Cartel Market.

 

Gear is not really the same. If you are a healer and go to a tank that is a big change especially at the end game. Even a healer and dps have different gear.

Don't they already have a solution for this, with the new 70 tokens? Just make the advanced class you want, burn that token, and voila. You've got the right gear, the right weapon, and as a bonus you even have the other advanced class you rolled in the first place.

 

Pretty much.

No. /thread

There are no advanced classes or base classes any more. The former advanced classes are now just classes, while the former base classes are now, in effect, little more than the names of a story shared between two classes.

Yes there are. You just choose the advanced class right away now. But there are still core classes because an assassin is still an inquisitor just liker a sorc.

 

Besides, if there were no more core classes, feel free to explain how the bonus on the CXP legacy perk works.

Yes there are. You just choose the advanced class right away now. But there are still core classes because an assassin is still an inquisitor just liker a sorc.

 

Besides, if there were no more core classes, feel free to explain how the bonus on the CXP legacy perk works.

Sorry, missed this. Yeah, that's a fair point. But, equally, I didn't say they are *just* names for stories. They are "little more than" names for stories.

 

When we switch to talking about "under the covers" mechanics, what you say is exactly right - Commandos are still Troopers - but *seen from the outside* the base class, *as a class* no longer exists, I can't make an easy analogy with another game I've played, but I'll try a few.

 

* GW1 has *secondary* class change as a mechanic, but there's no way to change your primary class.

* GW2 has "elite specialisations" which, when trained and installed on your character, change your "effective" class - a Guardian who equips the Dragonhunter specialisation *becomes* a Dragonhunter, but also remains a Guardian, but if you equip the Firebrand specialisation instead, you change and become a Firebrand. And you can do this any time you are not in combat. Hmm. Perhaps this weakens the argument somewhat.

* Allods Online has ferociously expensive tokens to make a unrestricted class change, and makes you pick a new species if your current species doesn't support the new class archetype. It also rewrites your gear to be compatible with the new class. That last part could theoretically be done in SWTOR, but would have oddities.

* FFXIV:ARR has class changes that are exactly as simple as weapon swaps. Change weapon ==> change class. (But e.g. miner, lumberjack, fisherman, and so on are classes, too, where the craft/gather tool is equipped *like* a weapon.) You are expected to provide your own armour appropriate to the new class.

* None of them that I've played has a locked-in specialised class system like SWTOR. I have no doubt that there's at least one other that does, but I haven't played it.

 

Hmm. Having thought some more about this while writing this post, I'm starting to think that most of the arguments *against* the token have been invalidated by the changes in the game over the years. One remains, and has become stronger over time.

 

Do we want them spending the time and resources required to implement such a thing in a way that doesn't cause more gameplaymechanical problems than it solves, or would we rather they got on with building cool new story, flashpoints, operations, and properly new warzones?

 

That said, if they did build it, I would use it in a heartbeat for one character, but just that one. I endured pushing a dps Vanguard (Tactics, if memory serves) all the way to the beginning of SoR. I would switch him without a second thought to Gunnery Commando. (I discovered somewhere on Tatooine just how much I don't like that class, but this was post-4.0, pre-5.0. I pushed on, but by God I don't like that class.)

Since the story and companions and everything else is the same, why not go the whole hog and have swappable professions, base classes, advanced classes, genders, races, relationships and everything.

 

We're all bland cookie-cutter classes anyways.

 

in fact, just sell a button press for 10,000 CCs and it'll auto-complete the whole game and save anyone the time and extra expense.

Do we want them spending the time and resources required to implement such a thing in a way that doesn't cause more gameplaymechanical problems than it solves, or would we rather they got on with building cool new story, flashpoints, operations, and properly new warzones?

I don't see what problems it could cause. Even the points you brought up initially- gear and such. Why should that be a problem from teh dev side? On one hand they could go the current Master Datacron route where upon using the class change token, a full set of gear for the specific class is provided to you. But I would be just as fine with saying if you do change class, it's on you to gear properly. Did you go from a Commando to a Vanguard? Well then I hope you can figure out how to get a Blaster rifle and slot some mods into it. No reason to take away your cannon (as in remove it from your inventory). It just becomes unequippable, like some companion weapons did.

 

"But wait, I don't want commando-geared vanguards in my ops/pvp/etc." Well, noobs will be noobs. I don't believe this will create a noticeable influx of that sort of thing. No more than respeccing does currently at any rate.

We have plenty of options for new character boost tokens. If you want a different AC, just make a new character and boost it.

 

You're trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

You cant make a new character if you don't have the slot.

 

That argument resides with the old game, and should be retired along with "if you want to quicktravel use a shuttle", "companions are not meant to be gods, L2P", "Heroics are group content only", "Armor appearance needs to remain factional and class based", "This game is not barbie dress up, no need for an appearance system".....etc.

 

It's just an attempt to keep things rooted in the past IMO.

 

At this point it really doesn't matter. Even I stood against the idea of class change, I wanted advanced class to have real meaning instead (which they do with the changes IMO)....but at this point I have given up. The game is simply not the regimented MMO of the past any longer.

 

If they do implement something like class change, it should have a substantial cost IMO. Both to unlock and to utilize.

We have plenty of options for new character boost tokens. If you want a different AC, just make a new character and boost it.

 

You're trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

Actually there are several small "problems" that while each may be inconsequential, together do add up. Things like old armor for cosmetics that may not be obtainable anymore, old titles, general completion etc.

 

I think a case can be made for this functionality. Now that we have the Master Datacron there is practically no additional impact to group play by allowing this. Noobs will be noobs. You can't stop someone who just got the game from boosting to a fully 230'd set bonus-clad class and queuing for an OP so what difference will this make? And if they were to implement a restriction that you can't boost until you leveled the class normally, then they could add the same restriction to the class change token. So either way, nothing is lost, but flexibility is gained for those that want it.

Actually there are several small "problems" that while each may be inconsequential, together do add up. Things like old armor for cosmetics that may not be obtainable anymore, old titles, general completion etc.

 

I think a case can be made for this functionality. Now that we have the Master Datacron there is practically no additional impact to group play by allowing this. Noobs will be noobs. You can't stop someone who just got the game from boosting to a fully 230'd set bonus-clad class and queuing for an OP so what difference will this make? And if they were to implement a restriction that you can't boost until you leveled the class normally, then they could add the same restriction to the class change token. So either way, nothing is lost, but flexibility is gained for those that want it.

 

I find the resistance at this point odd, but I guess some folks are still holding on.

It's simple. The token would include a new weapon set. All the other gear is the same. And there is still such a thing as base classes and advanced classes whether they call them that still or not. There might be sixteen classes, but there's only eight stories. To get the Legendary Player status, you have to complete all eight stories. You don't have to level all sixteen classes. Changing from a Vanguard to a Commando is not going to affect the Trooper story at all. It's just one step up from changing your discipline. Given how much they've caved on everything else they said they wouldn't, I could see them adding this functionality at some point. It's one more thing they can sell on the Cartel Market.

 

Don't confuse a story for a "base class". Reroll, XP rains from the heavens in this game. It has never been difficult to achieve max level. Plenty of us were level 50 in the 7 days of early access back in 2011.

 

There are already -5 level cap tokens. Buy that, put an ' in the name and call it good.

 

Honestly, you know by level 30 whether or not you like the playstyle of every AC. If you aren't level 30, you will be in about 2 hours of playing correctly. If you are over level 30, then you already knew that you didn't like the AC and still leveled it.

 

There is like a 73,000 page thread about this dating back to 2012. It ain't gonna happen.

 

WRT gear, titles etc no longer obtainable. You still have them, just not on new characters.

Edited December 20, 2017 by ekwalizer

Never say never. Plenty has been added to the game recently that folks have been asking for for years, AND that Bioware at one time implied would likely never happen, or at least demonstrated strong resistance to the idea.

 

To many things have been added that have been "never will happen" items. The list of "never will happen" items is shrinking by the day IMO.

I don't see what problems it could cause. Even the points you brought up initially- gear and such. Why should that be a problem from teh dev side? On one hand they could go the current Master Datacron route where upon using the class change token, a full set of gear for the specific class is provided to you. But I would be just as fine with saying if you do change class, it's on you to gear properly. Did you go from a Commando to a Vanguard? Well then I hope you can figure out how to get a Blaster rifle and slot some mods into it. No reason to take away your cannon (as in remove it from your inventory). It just becomes unequippable, like some companion weapons did.

 

"But wait, I don't want commando-geared vanguards in my ops/pvp/etc." Well, noobs will be noobs. I don't believe this will create a noticeable influx of that sort of thing. No more than respeccing does currently at any rate.

As I said before, solving the gear problems is NOT hard. There are many ways to solve it, not least simply having unusable gear pop out into inventory (or an "Item Recovery" mail(1)) and leaving it up to the player to fix it.

 

However, while in a perfect world there would be no bugs in the process, I would anticipate some quantity of bugs as a result of the code being a tangled mess of messes, and therefore a non-zero number of instances of one or more of the following:

* The game deletes all the "trainer" abilities for the old advanced class (correct) and the base class (not correct) and does NOT allow you to retrain the base class abilities (doubly not correct)

* The game clears ONLY the base class abilities and doesn't add any of the new advanced class abilities.

* The game loses the character's discipline utilities and doesn't let the character train new ones.

* Any or all of the above, but only if the character is BT3 Female Human with hairstyle 43 and eye colour 7. (Yes, this one is a joke.)

 

(1) If we leave relics etc. alone and assume that "tank mods/gear on a no-tank class" counts as usable for the purpose, the limit case is a Guardernaut tank who goes Sentimara, wearing actual heavy armour and correctly using a shield. Seven pieces of armour and the shield makes eight items, and the limit per mail is eight items, so only one mail is needed.

With all the options available now, 65 tokens, Masters Datacron, there really is no need for this. I cant imagine the situation where this would really be worth using.

I find the resistance at this point odd, but I guess some folks are still holding on.

 

Personally, I'm not against it so much as I just don't think it serves a great purpose. How many people do you suppose will actually use something like this? A lot of players already have tons of alts and just play those when they want to experience something different. Why pay to change an AC, when you can just use another character? If you don't have a character of the desired AC, just roll a new one and boost. I don't think BW would get much return on such an item.

The desire to keep old armor or titles doesn't justify an item like this, imo.

Personally, I'm not against it so much as I just don't think it serves a great purpose. How many people do you suppose will actually use something like this? A lot of players already have tons of alts and just play those when they want to experience something different. Why pay to change an AC, when you can just use another character? If you don't have a character of the desired AC, just roll a new one and boost. I don't think BW would get much return on such an item.

The desire to keep old armor or titles doesn't justify an item like this, imo.

 

^^ Very much agree with this assessment.

 

I get that there are some players that would like this.... but as with most things in MMOs... there are ALWAYS some players that want something..... but what matters is how much demand and is it actually worth it to the studio to create such a token. Personally, I think not given you can effectively spin up a new 70 with the datacron booster now. Sure.. you can find a player here and there that wants to keep everything they have done on a long played character and just want to flip the AC on it... but I bet this is actually quite a small number of players and not worth studio resources.

Don't they already have a solution for this, with the new 70 tokens? Just make the advanced class you want, burn that token, and voila. You've got the right gear, the right weapon, and as a bonus you even have the other advanced class you rolled in the first place.

 

Simple solution

 

/thread

 

/topic

Don't they already have a solution for this, with the new 70 tokens? Just make the advanced class you want, burn that token, and voila. You've got the right gear, the right weapon, and as a bonus you even have the other advanced class you rolled in the first place.

 

Then you have to replay the story, get the same valor/titles/cxp, replay the various side quests and burn lots of time and $ on getting companions to "up there" influence ratings - all of which has nothing to do with the differences between playing a sentinel and a guardian. I have over 50 70s (and ~10 with 300 cxp) but I would still have loved to do this with some of my characters at various times. If it's all the same to you why shouldn't we be able to do this?

Never say never. Plenty has been added to the game recently that folks have been asking for for years, AND that Bioware at one time implied would likely never happen, or at least demonstrated strong resistance to the idea.

 

To many things have been added that have been "never will happen" items. The list of "never will happen" items is shrinking by the day IMO.

 

Honestly, I think they are working with a very small crew, and a change like this would probably be a substantial change to the engine code, which since most of their original developers have moved to other projects (like Anthem), the new developers probably would have a real problem with this. Its just not worth it, would rather they finish their raid bosses they have been working on.