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So, I just finished SoR, and Charles Boyd was full of it with his KOTFE Retcon

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
So, I just finished SoR, and Charles Boyd was full of it with his KOTFE Retcon

ZionHalcyon's Avatar


ZionHalcyon
12.07.2017 , 12:44 AM | #1
"And somewhere the former crazed Emperor lives on, Eager to take every last drop of life from the galaxy..."

That line was in the interlude after I finished SoR on my bounty hunter. Marr talked to me about us being back at war with the Republic. The Emperor himself restated his ideals and confirmed his identity as a planet devourer.

Why can't Boyd and Bioware just admit the truth? Someone had a very BAD idea to change everything up with KotFE and KotET, and even if this was a direction being forced on the writing team, they utterly failed to bridge SoR to KotFE and give a plausable reason for an Emperor, who's ultimate motivations have never been hidden, be it from his own words, Scourge's , etc, that he wants to devour all life in the galaxy to become a god, and create a whole new galaxy with him as the center.

Frankly, settling down on Zakuul would be beneath him.

You can tell the tone starts to get a little wonky in Ziost. But still, what they did for KotFE was wrong. It was out of character, and poorly written when contrasted with what came before. Its like KotFE and KotET were different games entirely but with the same mechanics.

If EA or the higher ups at BioWare will not allow them to admit they screwed the story up, fine. But start making it RIGHT. Pre-KotFE Emperor DOESN'T NEED a retcon - VALKORION DOES. Hell, they already did the whole "split body" thing with Revan - I could see Vitiate separating the part of him that wanted family into a separate entity, while the "Hands" supported Vitiate proper. Rehash? Sure. But better than continuing to try to make a failed story work.

Come on BioWare. Enough screwing around. Just playing through Vanilla stories is enough to scream that KotFEs story was out of place and broke continuity. So fix it already, and stop doubling down on stupid and expecting us to believe it, when the story that came before is enough of a testament to how you are full of it.

BenduKundalini's Avatar


BenduKundalini
12.07.2017 , 02:19 AM | #2
Agree. The whole thing reeks of "hey this classic SW stuff is getting old, let's boldly go where no one has gone before"

Surely there's a trope for that...

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Ylliarus's Avatar


Ylliarus
12.07.2017 , 02:42 AM | #3
I 100% agree. KotFE and KotET were interesting stories, but they should have never been a continuation of SWTOR's story. The narrative is so messed up in my opinion at the moment that a lot of the magic that brought me to the game 5 years ago is gone. I fell in love with SWTOR due to the classic Star Wars themes, Jedi vs Sith, Empire vs Republic. Leave that be, allow me to live my fantasy and play in a story that is classic Star Wars, not this new alternative side. Sure, it's interesting but we have enough of that "alternative side" flavour in the new movies, I really didn't want or need it in SWTOR.

Thus, my passionate plea to Bioware: return to classic Star Wars in SWTOR, Republic vs Empire, Jedi vs Sith. Return the magic that brought me to SWTOR five years ago, please.
ATTENTION: Include the Twi'lek into the 3 new eye colours from Appearance Options: Expanded Selections in the next patch. It was a huge mistake to not do this from the start as they are being grossly neglected as a playable species.
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Tsillah's Avatar


Tsillah
12.07.2017 , 02:43 AM | #4
Without wanting to sound too judgmental but one reason why a mysterious ancient emperor works better than a socialite emperor of zakuul is the simple point that the writers have to be able to describe someone like an all powerful emperor.

Vitiatate had tremendous power, intellect and deviousness that had no equal. As a writer you will have to be able to understand that to describe it properly and if your own power, intellect and deviousness do not even come to close to such a thing, how can you even hope to do that justice in detail.

So BW's solution was to make it a personal drama hoping to reel people in like any soap opera might. Except, there are people here of some intelligence (and it doesn't require you to be Einstein) to poke through that quite easily.

Also their inability to write consistently is another issue. They clearly had no plan for the writing beyond some big lines and once they started writing the chapters it just went all over the place. Not in the least to try to accomodate 8 wildly differeng classes and background stories.

In short, they tried to do something they did not have the capacity for and it shows. Vitiate had to step down to Valkorion and we had to step down to some Alliance commander simply because BW could not continue where things left off. I think in part it's a resource issue and the other part is that they went so overboard with the original stories that they wrote themselves into a corner they couldn't get out of. As much as I like the original stories, I never thought it was a good idea to make our characters Dark Council Members, Wraths, Masters etc. right away.

What else can you write beyond that? What can you achieve more than where we got? Particularly in an MMO where you have to assume the story needs to continue. We rose to power too quickly. That includes Imperial Agents defeating a Dark Council member at lower levels even and that is something that I wish they hadn't done. The Inquisitor gains power beyond power by dabbling with spirits and then it just disappears like it never happened.

So I think it's not just Vitiate but all of our characters that suffered a dumbing down of their roles and personality. It was a poorly executed story nerf. Of course Bioware then throws in the idea of becoming a god in Iokath...I mean, was that really necessary?
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fishpeople's Avatar


fishpeople
12.07.2017 , 03:25 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Ylliarus View Post
Thus, my passionate plea to Bioware: return to classic Star Wars in SWTOR, Republic vs Empire, Jedi vs Sith. Return the magic that brought me to SWTOR five years ago, please.
In that scenario the best I think we can hope for is missions like the Umbara one, where Imp and Pub ncs are switches based on our Iokath coice.

SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
12.07.2017 , 03:38 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Tsillah View Post
I never thought it was a good idea to make our characters Dark Council Members, Wraths, Masters etc. right away.
In that sense (but not necessarily in other senses), the Trooper story is probably more successful (less fail-ridden?) than the others - the character remains just a Major. Sure, a Spec Forces Major, but not General or anything stupid like that, while the others are on the Dark or Jedi Council, or they are the Emperor's Wrath or the top of the top fighting Jedi, or whatever.
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Pscyon's Avatar


Pscyon
12.07.2017 , 04:22 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by ZionHalcyon View Post
Come on BioWare. Enough screwing around. Just playing through Vanilla stories is enough to scream that KotFEs story was out of place and broke continuity. So fix it already, and stop doubling down on stupid and expecting us to believe it, when the story that came before is enough of a testament to how you are full of it.
Woah now. While they certainly threw everything pre-KotFE out the window and only barely acknowledged it ("You're not the power-hungry planet eater from before!" "I am and I'm not!"), I don't agree that the new story is worse. I think it's better. Obviously that's opinion though and we'll likely never agree.

However, do you really think they're capable of fixing it? Apparently they thought they'd painted themselves into a corner with the previous story, hence the heavyhanded approach of throwing it out the window and pretending it never happened. Would you really want them to do that again, reboot the story once more?
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Ylliarus's Avatar


Ylliarus
12.07.2017 , 04:38 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Pscyon View Post
Woah now. While they certainly threw everything pre-KotFE out the window and only barely acknowledged it ("You're not the power-hungry planet eater from before!" "I am and I'm not!"), I don't agree that the new story is worse. I think it's better. Obviously that's opinion though and we'll likely never agree.

However, do you really think they're capable of fixing it? Apparently they thought they'd painted themselves into a corner with the previous story, hence the heavyhanded approach of throwing it out the window and pretending it never happened. Would you really want them to do that again, reboot the story once more?
If KotFE and KotET were seperate stories in a seperate game, then I would have liked them and graded them much better. As a continuation of the SWTOR narrative however I 100% agree that KotFE and KotET are much worse than the original vanilla class stories. Just look at what a forced railway run KotFE and KotET are, there is a negligible amount of story variation in different playthroughs which makes the two new expansion boring and bland after the first 2 playthroughs. Even playing it Dark Side or Light side has no impact on the story at all expect for the decor changing a bit. Is that supposed to be meaningful choices?

Look at the vanilla class stories, choices did matter there, a lot, a lot more. You can play a Light Side and Dark Side Sith Inquisitor or Sith Warrior and you won't have the exact same story experience with each. With KotFE and KotET you do. There is a reason why I have deleted the characters that I suffered through KotFE and KotET just to be able to return to the vanilla storyline and wash the bad Zakuulian taste out of my figurative mouth.

Vanilla class stories? Solid 9/10.
KotFE and KotET together? 4/10 if I am generous.
ATTENTION: Include the Twi'lek into the 3 new eye colours from Appearance Options: Expanded Selections in the next patch. It was a huge mistake to not do this from the start as they are being grossly neglected as a playable species.
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Storm-Cutter's Avatar


Storm-Cutter
12.07.2017 , 04:55 AM | #9
Taken form all the posts on the subject of story, it would appear that most players have noted decline in quality of writing in the last few years.

TBH better fan-fiction is posted in the forums, better writing is everywhere.

~To shoe-horn every old class story into a one-size-(doesn't) fit all was the biggest mistake ever.

It was cheap and it felt and played cheaply.
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Ylliarus's Avatar


Ylliarus
12.07.2017 , 05:04 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Storm-Cutter View Post
Taken form all the posts on the subject of story, it would appear that most players have noted decline in quality of writing in the last few years.

TBH better fan-fiction is posted in the forums, better writing is everywhere.

~To shoe-horn every old class story into a one-size-(doesn't) fit all was the biggest mistake ever.

It was cheap and it felt and played cheaply.
I consider many roleplay events and storylines I have had back in the days there existed a Progenitor server, with other players to be much and much better quality than KotFE and KotET. And to think what awe we had back then for the story team (KotFE hadn't been released back then) and how our dreams were to catch a glimpse of their attention for our fanfictions. How things have changed now, after KotFE and KotET. It saddens me so much a great story went down to an average story that I really have to push myself to play.

Even Copero I was like "ugh, do we have to do it?". I ended up postponing it to the other day because the Inquisitor class story which I was replaying for the 7th time was much and much more interesting...
ATTENTION: Include the Twi'lek into the 3 new eye colours from Appearance Options: Expanded Selections in the next patch. It was a huge mistake to not do this from the start as they are being grossly neglected as a playable species.
Oh yeah, and this is my referral link!