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Ninja Scout Hull Buff

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NHBabe's Avatar


NHBabe
12.11.2017 , 04:36 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Greezt View Post
In TDM, we're back to the old meta. I've seen teams pull back from over ten points deficit by swapping to gunships. An ion/slug combo will kill most strikes (or bring them close enough to death that it doesn't matter), except specific builds. Also, the issue isn't a single gunship against a single strike, it's that gunships once again stack too well. 4 GS will decimate 4 strikes.
True, but I still see most of the matches using Strikes or even some Scouts to counter-balance. Today in fact I was harassed by no less than 4 Strikes and a Scout in both a Dom and TDM. Needless to say, I didn't last very long. After those matches I switched characters in the hope that I could fly and not be singled out so easily. It lasted for 5 minutes into the next match when the Strikes decided I had to go and swarmed me again. Unfortunately the Strikes I had backing me up were too far away to keep me alive, but did retaliate on my behalf, so those that did me wrong, didn't last long either.
"You're already dead. Just lie down." HK-51

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Ramalina's Avatar


Ramalina
12.11.2017 , 09:53 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by RickDagles View Post
Gunships already felt OP in Lost shipyards TDM prior to the ninja slug railgun buff, but now they feel OP in Iokath too. They seem ok in Kuat Mesas. You really do need to stack a few of them to get the full effect though. They can still be really tricky to fly when solo queuing.
The changes to Slug never really dented their power much, it mostly reduced ease of use. So if you undo some of that by giving back more accuracy then Slug ends up not really nerfed with respect to pre-5.5 balance. That includes stacking really well with large numbers of ships.

I kind of wonder if some of this is a matter of Plasma Railgun being pretty hard hit with the cooldown changes that pretty much killed DOT stacking. During the brief window of DOT stacking Plasma had a really solid place in the meta, and it was a bit stronger against evasion builds than the other railguns and a bit weaker against shields and damage reduction. I haven't been playing gunships much lately, but if the fire I'm receiving is anything to go by most pilots are feeling that Plasma is once again not worth the bother. I'm not sure that Slug-Ion is really any weaker against evasion targets than Plasma-Ion, and it's sure a lot stronger than Plasma-Ion at everything that's not evasion.

So I think there's some natural push toward Slug-Ion to deal with strikes now having a place in the meta and bombers making a bit of a recovery with EMP tuning, but I'm also thinking that any countervailing push to run Plasma-Ion has sort of been squelched by the Plasma CD increase.

I'm not sure I object that much to the current state of Slug though. It's not an entirely bad thing if you don't have to be an expert level GS pilot to get good use out of it. If it's staying though, the ecosystem as a whole does need adequate deterrence to just parking a batch of gunships on top of a pair of bombers all match every match. It's a bit of a delicate balance to get that dialed in perfectly.
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Greezt's Avatar


Greezt
12.12.2017 , 02:06 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by NHBabe View Post
True, but I still see most of the matches using Strikes or even some Scouts to counter-balance. Today in fact I was harassed by no less than 4 Strikes and a Scout in both a Dom and TDM. Needless to say, I didn't last very long. After those matches I switched characters in the hope that I could fly and not be singled out so easily. It lasted for 5 minutes into the next match when the Strikes decided I had to go and swarmed me again. Unfortunately the Strikes I had backing me up were too far away to keep me alive, but did retaliate on my behalf, so those that did me wrong, didn't last long either.
That's player preference. You'd see some players stick to strikes even before the changes, and they were definitely more inferior back then. Ask yourself this -- were these 4 strikes + 1 scout in 5 GS, would you have survived for a longer time? Or a shorter time?

The slug accuracy buff is unwarranted. The whole point of reducing the accuracy + tracking in the first place was making it less effective against evasive targets, no? So we went from 104% accuracy at max range and centered to 108.5%. At deflection you now lose only 0.5% accuracy compared to pre-patch... and in return you gained 6% hull damage. Slugs are better than ever for good players, and to me they seem to be better even for mediocre players who don't understand tracking.

I dislike this change, as it means that any matchups between even and skilled teams will invariably end up as gunship walls. There's no way around that.

LordFell's Avatar


LordFell
12.12.2017 , 01:31 PM | #24
I definitely feel like flying a Strike feels better than it did.

...at the same time, I totally understand complaints of missile spam. Sometimes, flying scout or strike, I'll spend more time trying to LOS or ability-break missile locks than actually finding and attacking targets. Especially with a Scout, where there's not a lot of tolerance (I can take one hit, and maybe some blaster fire, before I'm dead, unless I"m unlucky). And that can be a super frustrating way to fly... and as a solo player, I'm not really filling a niche.

If I'm getting frustrated, a Gunship seems to be my go-to. I've got better range, and I hit real hard... I'm probably going to wreck some sucker's ride before I get missile mobbed.

Flusssaeure's Avatar


Flusssaeure
12.13.2017 , 11:05 AM | #25
I found claims that gunships died after 5.5 exaggerated as do I find claims that we are back to the old meta after 5.6.1 exaggerated.

To get the same number of Kills and assist I need about three times as much damage on a gunship than I do on a Protorp equiped strike fighter. I blame the shield piercing of the Protorp for that, because with the gunship I have to break through the shield by dealing damage, which give them the chance to regenerate the shield when they are able to break LOS, while I don't have to do that on a Protorp equiped strike.

Both ships have advantages and disadvantages something we couldn't say before 5.5.

The only small complain I have about that is that the Protorp created "Hull-Meta" even further reduced the TTK. While many including myself like the fast paced style of GSF it can't be denied that an even lower TTK is even more punishing for new players still learning the game. If we could get the new balance with the old TTK I wouldn't complain about that.

RickDagles's Avatar


RickDagles
12.13.2017 , 01:56 PM | #26
Yea I think the Quarrel/Mangler has always been one of the best ships (probably the best), even in 5.5. You just need a bit more team support to fly one effectively now.


Quote:
To get the same number of Kills and assist I need about three times as much damage on a gunship than I do on a Protorp equiped strike fighter. I blame the shield piercing of the Protorp for that, because with the gunship I have to break through the shield by dealing damage, which give them the chance to regenerate the shield when they are able to break LOS, while I don't have to do that on a Protorp equiped strike.
While this is true, the true value of ion railgun doesn't show up on the scoreboard. That slowdown effect really helps your team score kills. I'll often tap a target with ion railgun to apply the slow, and then moments later I see that pilot explode from a protorp. Had I not applied that slowdown effect, the enemy ship may have been able to just escape behind LoS.