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Ninja Scout Hull Buff

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RickDagles's Avatar


RickDagles
11.30.2017 , 01:46 AM | #1
Just noticed the default scout hull went up to 1050 (originally 950).

At first I thought that would make hydrospanner a default choice on scout since the hydro tick would counter proton tick BUT I just got hit by a proton while hydrospanner was on cooldown and I didn't die. I had a red flaming hull but it wasn't even the rarely seen BLACK/ZERO hull. So that might mean our predicted math of 1050 per proton is incorrect, or maybe the proton damage is somehow rounded down to 1049.

Anyway I think this is a great change and I'm glad that the devs seem to be listening to the legit complaints.

Also the new map is really cool! It seems like there are a lot of LoS opportunities and I don't think gunships will rule that map as much as Lost Gunshipyards.

Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
11.30.2017 , 02:19 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by RickDagles View Post
Just noticed the default scout hull went up to 1050 (originally 950).

At first I thought that would make hydrospanner a default choice on scout since the hydro tick would counter proton tick BUT I just got hit by a proton while hydrospanner was on cooldown and I didn't die. I had a red flaming hull but it wasn't even the rarely seen BLACK/ZERO hull. So that might mean our predicted math of 1050 per proton is incorrect, or maybe the proton damage is somehow rounded down to 1049.

Anyway I think this is a great change and I'm glad that the devs seem to be listening to the legit complaints.

Also the new map is really cool! It seems like there are a lot of LoS opportunities and I don't think gunships will rule that map as much as Lost Gunshipyards.
Great catch on the Scout buff.

If you were bright red but not Black hull I'd say what likely happened is that you were at full 1050, and got him by an unupgraded Proton for 1000 damage, leaving you with 50 health remaining.
DrakolichDrakolích
The BastionTwitch Stream

RickDagles's Avatar


RickDagles
11.30.2017 , 02:30 AM | #3
That's what I was thinking, but I thought the flaming red hull happens when you are at less than 5% hull? If I was hit by 1000 damage proton I would be at or slightly above 5% hull? I guess another possibility is that I wasn't at exactly 100% hull before the upgraded proton hit me. My hull was green, but recently I've noticed that the color indicators are really vague. With my Clarion I've been popping hydrospanner at lot with a green hull (after being hit with EMP field).


Kinda a moot point now but popping hydrospanner on a 950 hull scout just prior to being hit by a proton would actually keep you alive pre 5.6. Hydro DoT is 308 over 6 seconds which should be 51.3 heals/second (rounded to 51?) and proton is 210 damage over 4 seconds which should be 52.5 damage/second (rounded to 53?)

So if t=0 is when the upgraded proton (840 damage) lands -- scout hull (950) became 110

t=1 second; scout hull is 110-53 proton DoT +51 hydro DoT= 108 hull
t=2 second; scout hull is 108-53 proton + 51 hydro = 106 hull
t=3 second; scout hull is 106-53 proton + 51 hydro = 104 hull
t=4 second; scout hull is 144-53 proton + 51 hydro = 102 hull
t=5 second; scout hull is 102 + 51 hydro = 153 hull
t=6 second; scout hull is 153 + 51 hydro = 204 hull

Verain's Avatar


Verain
11.30.2017 , 03:37 PM | #4
First, we should at some point test an upgraded proton on a scout to see what happens. We may need a couple tests to get a non-crit case.

If the scout dies, then the 1050 damage from the proton is killing the 1050 hit point scout, which makes sense.

If the scout lives with a very dark hull, then we are seeing floating point shenanigans. 1.05 is rendered as 1.0499999523162841796875 in 32 bit IEEE floating point, so maybe possibly we are seeing scouts surviving with .0001220703125 hit points.


Though kinda silly, that could be intended? I'd assume not, but hey, who knows.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

Verain's Avatar


Verain
11.30.2017 , 03:39 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by RickDagles View Post
Kinda a moot point now but popping hydrospanner on a 950 hull scout just prior to being hit by a proton would actually keep you alive pre 5.6.
I believe any time before the second tick was fine, and I think the first tick was happening immediately.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
11.30.2017 , 03:53 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by RickDagles View Post
That's what I was thinking, but I thought the flaming red hull happens when you are at less than 5% hull? If I was hit by 1000 damage proton I would be at or slightly above 5% hull? I guess another possibility is that I wasn't at exactly 100% hull before the upgraded proton hit me. My hull was green, but recently I've noticed that the color indicators are really vague. With my Clarion I've been popping hydrospanner at lot with a green hull (after being hit with EMP field).
So the other possibily and this one is way more remote is that you got hit by a Proton that had the Crit chance upgrade but not the Damage upgrade and 1 or more of the Ticks on the dot crit you leaving you with even less health but still not enough to kill you.
DrakolichDrakolích
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RickDagles's Avatar


RickDagles
12.01.2017 , 08:59 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Drakkolich View Post
So the other possibily and this one is way more remote is that you got hit by a Proton that had the Crit chance upgrade but not the Damage upgrade and 1 or more of the Ticks on the dot crit you leaving you with even less health but still not enough to kill you.
Ah yea that makes sense, that's probably it.


I think I just noticed another ninja buff. Slug railgun accuracy appears to have been adjusted. I'm getting 118.5-113.5-108.5 at min-med-max range now. It was never a fraction before...

According to 5.5 patch notes:
Quote:
Slug Railgun:
Base accuracy increased by 5% at medium and long range to 110.0-105.0-100.0 (up from 110.0-100.0-95.0)
With pinpointing that should become 116.0-111.0-106.0. Did we get a 2.5% accuracy buff to slugs?



At first glance it looks like slugs are more accurate than ion now. But I think due to lag it's impossible to perfectly center a shot, so that means the tracking upgrade on plasma and ion is worth another 5% accuracy over slug. Realistically then, slug is 5% lower accuracy than advertised. Still, the realistic accuracy of slug is really close to ion railgun.


Slug:
Actual: 118.5-113.5-108.5
Realistic: 113.5-108.5-103.5

Ion:
119-109-104

Plasma:
124-114-109

OscarDivine's Avatar


OscarDivine
12.01.2017 , 09:42 PM | #8
I always appreciate every % of accuracy I can get, I wonder why no note of this was made. It's a change to a very substantial and meaningful meta component
Oscar Obviously
Star Forget - Satele Shan - Darth Malgus

RickDagles's Avatar


RickDagles
12.02.2017 , 11:20 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by OscarDivine View Post
I always appreciate every % of accuracy I can get, I wonder why no note of this was made. It's a change to a very substantial and meaningful meta component
Yeah I agree, I think these two undocumented buffs are huge.

Solo queuing with a scout in TDM still doesn't feel as strong at using T1 strike, but I like how T2 scout doesn't feel fragile while fighting on a node. Gunships now sometimes feel strong enough to field in solo Q TDM.

Verain's Avatar


Verain
12.04.2017 , 02:49 PM | #10
It would be really good for patch notes to include serious balance changes. The slug one at least is reasonably minor, but still impactful, but the scout one is a pretty big deal.

In the space of medium to long range, slug has a base accuracy 7.5% higher than ion now, but ion has 3-8% extra accuracy (many shots gaining the full 8%) from accuracy and tracking. In the space from short to medium range, this bonus is further reduced.

I actually wonder if the slug buff is to partially compensate for the scout hull buff? I can only speculate.

Either way, interesting.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."