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Groups Entering GSF Since Merger

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Groups Entering GSF Since Merger

Lendul's Avatar


Lendul
11.20.2017 , 07:41 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by caederon View Post
The funny thing is, GSF is structured just like an e-sport, except for the lack of a ranked ladder/league.
As an e-sports enthusiast, I can say no with authority. GSF is nowhere close to an e-sport. There are plenty of games with ranking and ladders that are not esports see: SWTOR ground PvP. 3rd party viewing of both teams simultaneously is an absolute must for something to even be considered an e-sport. GSF is casual PvP with stats.

Just out of curiosity. What is your favorite e-sports team?

caederon's Avatar


caederon
11.20.2017 , 08:10 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Lendul View Post
3rd party viewing of both teams simultaneously is an absolute must for something to even be considered an e-sport.
I don't have a favorite e-sport team. Come to think of it, though, I used to like watching PsyStarcraft and a couple other SC2 players. I admit, I'm more a fan of regular old sports.

I will say, though, that a 3rd party observer mode is something I've wanted in GSF for a long time, along with replays of matches. From the perspective of one who produces videos for both teaching and entertainment purposes, such tools would be invaluable, and would make for really excellent editing material. Diagramming strategies with views from multiple angles, being able to see from particular players' perspectives... it would be fantastic. Just the ability to illustrate how situations could be handled differently or why a player was able to pull off a particular move would be great for learning.

Setting aside budgetary concerns, what would stop this from happening in GSF? As an e-sports enthusiast, if such an observer system and ranked play were in place, do you see any reason why GSF couldn't succeed in that realm?

- Despon

Ramalina's Avatar


Ramalina
11.20.2017 , 08:22 PM | #23
It'd be tricky without some sort of ship path tracing function and maybe window or other UI enhancement to show things like cooldowns, hits, etc.

A basic camera view would just be tiny little dots moving around most of the time. You'd need a full blown spectator UI that feeds the viewer information sort of like the way the player UI does.

Like some sort of combination of using Tacview to review DCS World dogfights and a SWTOR/MMORPG type UI.

It would be really great though. I'd love that feature, especially if you could watch in progress matches while in queue and get booted from spectator if a match of your own popped.
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- Zhe Lian, Sage.

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Alzim's Avatar


Alzim
11.21.2017 , 09:55 AM | #24
GSF as an eSport? ...

- insanely small playerbase (compared to other eSports titles) - as was already mentioned with a "handful of premades/teams" and including a lot of ppl who just want to "leech" some CXP
- "no one cares" (besides us ) - so why should someone now? -> too old (now) to be new
- millions (or - c'mon - at least thousands) of Dollars to be made?! ...
- no "observer/spectator mode"
- still some balancing issues (e.g. EMP), although this would probably be the least concern of all the things mentioned ...

Nah, this ship has sailed a long time ago, even SWTOR PvP is miles away (having a "Leaderboard" and "Seasons" and "Stats" after a match doesn't help when the balancing between classes is an absolute joke, takes devs years/several months to try to do something about it and therefore practically no one takes it seriously - and balancing is absolute key for this kind of eSport). Don't get me wrong, personally I appreciate GSF the way it is - so, no offense, but considering it as a (potential) eSport (material) is frankly delusional.

caederon's Avatar


caederon
11.21.2017 , 12:01 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Alzim View Post
GSF as an eSport? ...

- insanely small playerbase (compared to other eSports titles) - as was already mentioned with a "handful of premades/teams" and including a lot of ppl who just want to "leech" some CXP
- "no one cares" (besides us ) - so why should someone now? -> too old (now) to be new
I should have specified I was speaking purely on the game's mechanical merits, not in regards to the current playerbase. The people playing now are a symptom of SWTOR on the whole, not GSF.
Quote: Originally Posted by Alzim View Post
- millions (or - c'mon - at least thousands) of Dollars to be made?! ...
- no "observer/spectator mode"
I don't particularly care about the prizes, it's a game that is set up for sport-like analysis and play, and would benefit tremendously from an observer/spectator mode.

Quote: Originally Posted by Alzim View Post
Don't get me wrong, personally I appreciate GSF the way it is - so, no offense, but considering it as a (potential) eSport (material) is frankly delusional.
Divorced from the factors that are not part of gameplay, why do you feel this is so?

GSF has everything in its gameplay that you would need for a compelling, audience-friendly viewing experience. It has...
  • considerable depth in the choices presented for ship builds
  • greatly consequential choices to be made in team composition
  • many strategic options for a team to approach any of the given maps
  • adjusting tactics and ship selection on the fly in matches can win or lose the match
  • ample material for analysis and play-by-play
_
What there says it's delusional to think it has potential as an e-sport?

When I think 'casual PvP' I think of the space combat in SW:Battlefront 1. No depth, no real tactics, very little choice. From what I've read, BF2 looks graphically amazing but really doesn't add depth, certainly not to the level of GSF.

- Despon

Alzim's Avatar


Alzim
11.22.2017 , 06:53 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by caederon View Post
GSF has everything in its gameplay that you would need for a compelling, audience-friendly viewing experience. It has...
  • considerable depth in the choices presented for ship builds
  • greatly consequential choices to be made in team composition
  • many strategic options for a team to approach any of the given maps
  • adjusting tactics and ship selection on the fly in matches can win or lose the match
  • ample material for analysis and play-by-play
_
What there says it's delusional to think it has potential as an e-sport?
Those are fair points if we are talking purely about game mechanic elements. I'm not sure though, if the game would remain exciting enough over a longer period of time. Newer, well known eSport titles try to keep excitement by adding new characters/heroes/champions every now and then, whereas with GSF you're (probably) stuck with the 4 ship archetypes and their most efficient/played builds over a looooong time. The question (for Devs) then becomes: do you "spice things up" by artificially nerfing/buffing some skills/abilities (and then it becomes a balancing issue again) or do you prefer the rather well balanced meta in place (at maybe the price of the game getting boring quicker)? Difficult.

Oh, and I think the matches would need to be absolutely 12vs12 player matches, so that there's always enough going on in space.

Exocor's Avatar


Exocor
11.22.2017 , 07:42 AM | #27
Obviously we need a multi-faction-queue. At least, to prevent faction-imbalances.
Secondly, we need a better way, to secure group-balance. Suggestion: The game has to be balanced around the Kill/Death-Rate (and maybe some other numbers) and has to take group-queues into consideration. A group of four extremely skilled players with a Kill/Death-rate far beyond gets into a group with the worst 4 other players in the queue. So, we probably have a group of more or less decent players in the other group.

Having balanced groups, makes it more attractive to actually "learn" the game, instead of throwing away matches, as it very often happens on my server. Here, on Tulak Hord, most of the time Pubs win. With the server merge, there came a few good imp players and a few bad pub players, that created some more balanced games, however, when one of the three major gsf-guilds queue, balance got sacrificed for carnage. I'm mostly queued solo, because the games are very boring otherwise.
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LordFell's Avatar


LordFell
11.22.2017 , 05:40 PM | #28
I mostly skimmed this one...

When I group for GSF, it's usually just someone on /GSF says "any groups?" and I say yes. We're not in voice, we're just ... I dunno. If we get a pop, we fly together. There's no real way for the game server to know whether we're a "real" premade with Discord, and a strategy.

I have also noticed that, to a large degree, the GSF community tends to "police" itself.

When "too many" of the server's best flyers all happen to be logged in on one side, it starts to be obvious... we get a pop, Domination goes 1000 to 84, with a three cap. Death Match goes 50 to 7.... pops slow down... suddenly it's a Training Exercise. Pops slow down more... some of those best flyers switch sides, rally the /gsf over on "the other side" and we get back to flying Pub vs. Imp.

The notion of "holding back" is silly; always fly to the best of your ability.

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
11.22.2017 , 10:09 PM | #29
You know, these days, even in the immediate weeks after 5.5 and predating the merges, I see just as many anti-team stackers as teams.

People talk about coordinating in a group and that it doesn't require voice chat. But I know for a fact that it's a heckuva lot easier for Mika to tell Drak he's about to reach the node under attack and left undefended than it is for the competent pilot solo-queuing who saw that node was under attack and started over and had to type in chat they were almost at the node.

These teams win because they communicate immediately in voice, know the way components interact, know how to LoS, how to play to objectives (including locations of DOs), and build their bars to synergize. They know each other's strengths and weaknesses. There is a reason why Drak was usually in a bomber and Verain in a GS prior to 5.5. The few times I've filled in for them, I've always learned from them. They are constantly moving and always communicating. They are always aware of the larger battlefield. Voice comms are an integral part of all that and, really, inseparable from their other skills.

Really, it's no different than trying to PUG a master mode operation. I hope to reach their level some day, but I also know I play the game for more than just GSF and the limited time I have to play is divided among all the content I enjoy. That's my choice, and it's not the fault of the developers or of Drakolich or anyone else but myself. You have to step outside your comfort zone sometimes and throw in with a group and join a voice comm and work the way they do, or the way SRW does, or OSDS or MLP or whomever. Even if you won't or can't, it's on everyone to type in chat before the match, saying what they are flying and where they are headed. Calling out incoming. Calling out DOs, repair nests, etc. It won't win every match but it builds a foundation of skills. I mostly solo queue, but if I choose not to interact with my team in some fashion then I'm part of the problem no matter how many medals I have at the end of the match. It might be interesting to see those guys each pair up with noobs and fly as four pairs, and I know Drako has done that. But if they do that, it's because they want to teach, and accept they will not be as effective as when they are on their super serious team. I'm sure Serena and Venus train together, help each other, encourage each other, but at some point when they are the only ones in the Wimbledon singles finals, charity has to be set aside in order to win. And neither sister would have appreciated the other going soft on them just because they care.
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AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
11.29.2017 , 11:32 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Lendul View Post
3rd party viewing of both teams simultaneously is an absolute must for something to even be considered an e-sport.
Reminds me of something : https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24144
Complex minds
will create
Complex problems.