Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

I don't understand


Acaelus-Thorne's Avatar


Acaelus-Thorne
11.09.2017 , 06:22 PM | #1
I know i'm not a great GSF player. I'll admit that. I do not understand how I can be utterly destroyed instantly now. Before the patch I ran a Scout BLC and I did pretty well. Not amazing. But always top in game and could usually 80% of the time outfly my enemies and take them down. I'm a long time Aviation game nut, and a pilot IRL. I dunno *** has happened with this update but I can't fly anymore. I just get utterly destroyed and out flown every match. It's not even fun anymore. I've tried every scout combo you can imagine with this patch. I knew Rapids got a nice upgrade so I customized my mouse and settings and can instantly turn my DPI down to be able to pinpoint track targets and I just unload annnnnnnd they just....fly away then I get sniped. But the same ships running rapids can destroy me while im full burn 5000m escaping. I've tried my BLCs and strike fighters are destroying me before I can even get on them. If I do out fly them, I just get sniped by Gunships or retarded bombers leaving debri. So I decided to try strike fighters. I've outfitted every weapon combo and they just dont work for me. I'm flying the same Strike ships that I keep dying against that can facetank BLCs and fly away with no problem. But when i'm in the exact same set ups, I can have a BLC scout melt me in seconds. I have no idea whats going on. Something doesn't seem right. Either all 40 of the matches i've done since the Merge have had full premades of the best effing pilots in swtor or there is something im missing out on.

Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
11.09.2017 , 06:31 PM | #2
It's really hard to pin point what might be the problem from the description you gave but I'm going to do my best.

First off, do you know what exactly you're dying too? Like is it Missiles, Lasers, players with Damage Overcharge, EMP Area of Effects?

Second, do you have the ability to record at all? This would give us a way to tell you exactly what's going on.


With many of the servers coming together I think a lot of players might get some surprises in the fact that maybe they were a big fish in a small pond and now they are being thrown in with everyone.
DrakolichDrakolích
The BastionTwitch Stream

Lendul's Avatar


Lendul
11.09.2017 , 06:57 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Drakkolich View Post
With many of the servers coming together I think a lot of players might get some surprises in the fact that maybe they were a big fish in a small pond and now they are being thrown in with everyone.
This was my first instinct. If I had to guess they played on Begeren Colony and this is the first GSF they have experienced outside of it.

Acaelus-Thorne's Avatar


Acaelus-Thorne
11.09.2017 , 07:14 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Drakkolich View Post
It's really hard to pin point what might be the problem from the description you gave but I'm going to do my best.

First off, do you know what exactly you're dying too? Like is it Missiles, Lasers, players with Damage Overcharge, EMP Area of Effects?

Second, do you have the ability to record at all? This would give us a way to tell you exactly what's going on.


With many of the servers coming together I think a lot of players might get some surprises in the fact that maybe they were a big fish in a small pond and now they are being thrown in with everyone.
Yeah sorry I wasn't descriptive enough. I play on JC, well did. What keeps happening is that I'm getting instant or what seems instant lock ons. Not by cluster missles though. It's about a 2 second or under lock and then my shields are burnt immediately and it's 2 second with their lazers. Some are quads and some rapid. But that's fine and I can usually break but the problem is when I'm re engaging they can lock on missles again almost instantly. I don't know what it is. If I flank and get behind I can't get past their shields with clusters and or rapid, blc, or lights. Which leads them to just returning to their teammates. If they get the drop on me I'm dead. I feel like I have no burst at all anymore. I can only pick off weak targets which is not what it was before. Now when I use strike fighters I can't ever get a lock that isn't 3 or 4 seconds long. I'm not sure how they can get a lock that mirrors cluster missles lock on time. I'm assuming HLC are super OP now because of their range. I feel like a scout now is more squishy and less powerful

I will try to record some videos this weekend on my failures and if someone could give criticism I'd appreciate it

Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
11.09.2017 , 08:21 PM | #5
Alright so a few things.

Almost all the missiles have been buffed like crazy as of 5.5. Not only that but the T1-2 Strike fighters now have a new Magazine that lets them reduce the lock on time of all missiles. Because of this the new missiles lock on really fast, not only that but these Strike fighters have been really buffed in durability and mobility. This means they are one of the hardest ships in the game to "Burst" down.

The new missile lock on times with the fastest loadouts are as follows:

-Cluster missile: 1.1 second lock on time
-EMP missile: 1.5 second lock on time
- Concussion and Ion missile: 1.9 second lock on time
- Proton Torpedo: 2.1 second lock on time

This means if a T2 Strike fires say an EMP missile at you and you use your maneuver they can instantly press "1" swap to Proton and 2.1 seconds later fire that Proton. Proton has been buffed to do 1050 damage now, which means if you don't have Reinforced armor on a Scout and that hits you, you die even at full hull.


Now as far as your Scout goes you are correct they are definitely less powerful then they used to be. This makes sense because Distortion field was nerfed. Not only that but many weapons that the Scout doesn't have access too, mainly Strike fighter ones were buffed. There is also another thing going on for Scouts which is making their lives even harder. Right now most players aren't even bothering killing players shields they are just using weapons that bypass them completely, which means when you as a Scout start shooting people you have to do all the work on every target, because there are way less people actually doing shield damage.


I hope this helps you understand a little better what's going on with the game since patch 5.5. If you knew all this stuff already and you're still not sure what's going on then I hope you can get that recording so we can help you analyse it.
DrakolichDrakolích
The BastionTwitch Stream

Toraak's Avatar


Toraak
11.09.2017 , 08:26 PM | #6
well for Strike fighters Concussion missiles hit shields hard, and I believe have a 1.9 second lock on timer when fully maxed. Proton Torpedoes also have a 2.1 second lock on timer when fully maxed (however they ignore your shields and hit hull directly).
Referral Link: www.swtor.com/r/Q4Tp3P

Acaelus-Thorne's Avatar


Acaelus-Thorne
11.09.2017 , 08:32 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Drakkolich View Post
Alright so a few things.

Almost all the missiles have been buffed like crazy as of 5.5. Not only that but the T1-2 Strike fighters now have a new Magazine that lets them reduce the lock on time of all missiles. Because of this the new missiles lock on really fast, not only that but these Strike fighters have been really buffed in durability and mobility. This means they are one of the hardest ships in the game to "Burst" down.

The new missile lock on times with the fastest loadouts are as follows:

-Cluster missile: 1.1 second lock on time
-EMP missile: 1.5 second lock on time
- Concussion and Ion missile: 1.9 second lock on time
- Proton Torpedo: 2.1 second lock on time

This means if a T2 Strike fires say an EMP missile at you and you use your maneuver they can instantly press "1" swap to Proton and 2.1 seconds later fire that Proton. Proton has been buffed to do 1050 damage now, which means if you don't have Reinforced armor on a Scout and that hits you, you die even at full hull.


Now as far as your Scout goes you are correct they are definitely less powerful then they used to be. This makes sense because Distortion field was nerfed. Not only that but many weapons that the Scout doesn't have access too, mainly Strike fighter ones were buffed. There is also another thing going on for Scouts which is making their lives even harder. Right now most players aren't even bothering killing players shields they are just using weapons that bypass them completely, which means when you as a Scout start shooting people you have to do all the work on every target, because there are way less people actually doing shield damage.


I hope this helps you understand a little better what's going on with the game since patch 5.5. If you knew all this stuff already and you're still not sure what's going on then I hope you can get that recording so we can help you analyse it.
Thank you for the explanation I wasn't aware of the second swap having a different timer. This makes perfect sense on what i was experiencing.This is pretty bad news for me since I hate the strike fighter playstyle. I guess ill have to learn to play a strike, which I hate the imperial model or just stop GSF for good.

RickDagles's Avatar


RickDagles
11.09.2017 , 08:47 PM | #8
I'm having an easier time flying scout than ever before. Less seismic and interdiction mines in domination and less railgun drones and gunship walls in TDM. You just need to be really careful about maintaining cover from missiles now. What is your primary scout build?

I think gunships have been hit a lot harder than scouts. It now feels really hard to fly gunship when you're on the weaker team. Before the patch, gunship was probably the best ship to fly when the teams were unbalanced.

Gainsby's Avatar


Gainsby
11.11.2017 , 03:01 PM | #9
Hello, Sledgehammer Bomber pilot here. I had to chime in and say that the team really matters also. I'm an OG BC Pilot, represent! But I've flown all servers for the past few months before the merge. I noticed outside of BC, (which rarely popped anymore) Every match was a losing battle, no matter what I flew. Almost all my ships are mastered. I am mainly a Sledgehammer pilot. But I noticed that it's still mostly about teamwork.
A voice chat app helps with communication. Starting a match letting others know where you're going, (ex. "Bomber, heals/ammo to B.) helps out too.

Of course, then you have the personal experience. BC GSF battles were extremely tactical. They still are.
But you now have those pilots in the mix. Make sure your loadout is what you want to use, and for Abeloth's sake stay out of range of those gunships. 1500m. Unless you are clear and ready to close in for the kill.

You'll get it. Check out classes and communicate loadouts with friends. Find out what works best, and what works best for you. It's fun to fly, even if you lose knowing you tried your best.

Ramalina's Avatar


Ramalina
11.11.2017 , 06:54 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Acaelus-Thorne View Post
This is pretty bad news for me since I hate the strike fighter playstyle. I guess ill have to learn to play a strike, which I hate the imperial model or just stop GSF for good.
You don't strictly speaking have to fly or learn to play a strike in terms of piloting. If you want to compete though, you do have to fully understand how the different strikes operate in combat.

As a flight sim analogy, you're used to flying a late model F-16 with Aim-9Xs, JHMCS, and AIM-120 C-7s against early production runs of Mig-23s, Mig-25s, and Su-24s that were all using missiles that were sitting in storage since the 1960's. 5.5 saw them all upgraded to Su-30/35/34 variants with R-77s straight off the production lines. The giant hardware advantage you've enjoyed is gone, and you actually have to outfly opponents now.

I chose the analogy carefully. F-16 vs Su-27 family derivatives is a reasonably close match in hardware. Organizational practices and pilot skill are going to be the deciding factors most of the time, though each plane will have specific advantages that may influence the pilot vs pilot aspect if taken advantage of.

The same applies to battlescout vs Starguard/Pike/Clarion or their Imperial mirrors. If you don't know what they're doing, why they're doing it, or how a scout with the build you're running can counter it, you're going to get slaughtered by a strike pilot of similar skill who does know those things about a scout (though arguably, if they know these things and you don't, then you're not as skilled as them at least in the combat aspect of combat piloting in GSF). Once you know that stuff, you should be able to hold your own against strikes while flying a scout to the extent that the rest of your relevant flying skills allow.

The error in Drakkolich's response to you is a good example of how knowing this stuff can help in GSF.

The period from breaking a Pike's EMP Missile launch at you with a maneuver to the launch of a Proton Torpedo from that Pike at you cannot be 2.1 seconds. It's going to be at least something like 4.8 or 4.9 seconds and is likely to be at least 5.2 seconds. We'll ignore sensor beacons and assume mastered components. When you break the lock with maneuver, you have 3 seconds of lock immunity. Taking 3 seconds of immunity, say 0.1 seconds reaction time, and 2.1 seconds to lock the torp, that's 5.2 seconds. It's a bit dicey to run Retros in a battlescout these days, but a retro build of a Quads and Pods scout or a retro build of a T1 strike should accept this engagement if it's a head to head pass with the Pike, because that 5.2 seconds is more than enough to kill the Pike. Without the torp in play the retro ships have more offensive power and better defenses (don't forget the 24% evasion for 3 seconds after using the maneuver) they're at a significant advantage vs the Pike. If the Pike is any good, they know this and will break off running to a place where if the opponent pursues the opponent will be out of position for team support and in a great position for firing a second pair of missiles at the retro ship. The retro ship also knows this and might pursue to snare a kill, but will be thinking about their fuel state and positioning as doing so and if things get to the point of almost favoring the Pike, aren't afraid to break off from what's going to turn into a losing proposition if they keep going. There are pilots that will recognize all of this before the Pike starts locking the EMP.

I've certainly killed my share of Pikes where the pilots didn't recognize this and accepted the joust. I suspect a lot of them were confused and disappointed that their awesome Proton Torpedo killing machine didn't work the way they thought it was supposed to. Their Pikes were working fine though. They just didn't understand how their Pikes worked or how my ships worked (mostly T1 strikes, I haven't been flying Retro Q&P scouts much lately, mostly Pdive, if I'm flying a battlescout at all). If they had understood, they couldn't have won the joust, but most of them could have at least made an attempt to escape with a reasonable chance of success if they had recognized that they were in a position that they needed to escape from.

This sort of knowledge and the advantage to the pilot that knows more if there's knowledge asymmetry applies to every ship v ship encounter in GSF. It's possible to outfly more knowledgeable pilots so you don't have to know it all by any means, but it really hurts if you don't know the most common solutions to the most common types of encounters.

The great thing if you don't want to fly a strike, is that you don't have to fly one, or even really study much. Just ask questions here or on the GSF Discord, or post match recordings, and you'll get more free help than you can use.
"A padawan's master sets their Jedi trial, Rajivari set mine."
- Zhe Lian, Sage.

Twitch