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Balance? Not!


ShienKhinJonn's Avatar


ShienKhinJonn
10.31.2017 , 12:10 AM | #1
Go through and balance GSF. Tired of getting 1 shotted RIGHT AFTER SPAWNING!!!!!

Kind of BS and ruins the game.

caederon's Avatar


caederon
10.31.2017 , 09:16 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by ShienKhinJonn View Post
Go through and balance GSF. Tired of getting 1 shotted RIGHT AFTER SPAWNING!!!!!

Kind of BS and ruins the game.
If you are getting one-shotted 'right after spawning' this is something you can learn to avoid, and has little to do with game balance.

I will assume you are in TDM, because it is highly unlikely to happen in Dom.

If this is happening:
  • At the START of a TDM match...
    • Watch at the start of a match for red text to say <Player Name> has Damage Overcharge
    • This is your signal to AVOID THAT PLAYER until DO runs out or someone kills them
    • Hit TAB or use E and your cursor to go through the visible enemy ships that are within sensor range to find the one named in the announcement
    • Gunships are the most likely ship to one-shot you in this circumstance, so if you are advancing, look for cover and get behind it until you have a clearer view of the battlefield
  • During the MID-MATCH
    • If your team is being beaten badly, they are likely to be pushed back to your center spawn.
    • You have TWO other spawn points, pick one and spawn there.
    • Do not fly directly at the enemy
    • Go grab some nearby powerups and attack from the edge or behind
    • It is often very difficult or impossible to overcome a significant team-strength defecit, so learn to take something positive from the match in terms of your personal performance.
  • Learn where the Damage Overcharge orbs spawn and get them first yourself!
_
There are many situations that arise when you are taking fire from multiple sources simultaneously, particularly if you have left yourself out in open space or get caught without your Shield/Engine maneuver.

Everyone gets blown up in GSF at one point or another. Games between skilled players often feature many player deaths, because the margin for error is slim.

Start getting better by learning solid techniques like the ones shown here on GSF School.

- Despon

Alzim's Avatar


Alzim
10.31.2017 , 10:08 AM | #3
I never understood why the flagship/battleships are not firing in TDM, compared to Dom, which works as some sort of protection against spawncamping. Is it because the devs feared it would encourage over the top defensive play (camping with gunships behind the flagships once you have a solid lead ...)?

DakhathKilrathi's Avatar


DakhathKilrathi
10.31.2017 , 10:20 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Alzim View Post
I never understood why the flagship/battleships are not firing in TDM, compared to Dom, which works as some sort of protection against spawncamping. Is it because the devs feared it would encourage over the top defensive play (camping with gunships behind the flagships once you have a solid lead ...)?
Because teams would get a one or two point lead and then just hide behind the cap ships for the entire game.

They used to behave like this, and people abused it.

philwil's Avatar


philwil
10.31.2017 , 11:12 AM | #5
Actually, from my own extensive personal gsf experience....no team with a lead ever reverted to their spawn points for protection. At least in my 13.5 k matches i have played in.

What they tended to do, because one team overwhelmed another....the weaker team tended to use the cap ships as protection.

Thus, extending the match a bit more. And making it difficult for the dominant team.

Since..it is a total death match..i mean come on. It's in the name. People convinced the devs to remove the turrets in TDM. So, the weaker teams cant hide behind those blasters.

That is why they removed them. No other reason.

Little bit of real history of gsf there for ya.

:P
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Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
10.31.2017 , 12:50 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by philwil View Post
Actually, from my own extensive personal gsf experience....no team with a lead ever reverted to their spawn points for protection. At least in my 13.5 k matches i have played in.

What they tended to do, because one team overwhelmed another....the weaker team tended to use the cap ships as protection.

Thus, extending the match a bit more. And making it difficult for the dominant team.

Since..it is a total death match..i mean come on. It's in the name. People convinced the devs to remove the turrets in TDM. So, the weaker teams cant hide behind those blasters.

That is why they removed them. No other reason.

Little bit of real history of gsf there for ya.

:P
Nope it actually was because teams were abusing the Cap ships after they got a lead. This actually happened daily on The Bastion for the couple of months they were still on.
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Verain's Avatar


Verain
10.31.2017 , 01:56 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by philwil View Post
Actually, from my own extensive personal gsf experience....no team with a lead ever reverted to their spawn points for protection. At least in my 13.5 k matches i have played in.
I'm glad they fixed it early enough for you to have never seen it. It was ludicrously exploitative behavior. Getting a small lead and turtling hardcore is a strategy of some concern today, but may have some counters with powerups and stuff, and is both very rare and legitimately difficult to pull off. But when you had cap ship turrets backing you up, it was truly ludicrous, trivial to exploit, and made for much more degenerate games than anything we see on live today.

Quote:
Thus, extending the match a bit more. And making it difficult for the dominant team.
There's problems with that too. Broadly, the powerups are simple not good enough to compensate in these situations, and I don't really think a game where a team is being capship farmed is such an excellent example of a game that it needs to go on indefinitely.

That being said- I was never in favor of the unilateral disabling of capital ship turrets. The devs made other good changes to try to help truly new players- such as making it so that if you never selected a spawn, you would spawn randomly- but a system-wide warning if the score delta grew to more than, say, 10, followed by the enabling of capital ship turrets wouldn't be the end of the world. Even if there was a powerup that would spawn that would disable them again for a period of time. Basically, any system set up to break the camp and allow a meaningful regroup, without giving a huge tactical reward to the losing side, would be better in the games where there's a huge difference in skill gap.

But if the choices are "capship turrets on" and "capship turrets off" for TDM, I choose off, and I'm glad the devs did too. I just wish there was a better middle ground.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
10.31.2017 , 02:26 PM | #8
Let me preface this by saying that I'm ok with the system as is until a better alternative that allows for regrouping without exploiting is implemented. Baddies like myself will get farmed and I don't think turning on capship turrets is the way to help me get better at the game. That being said, in a "real" Star Wars space battle, I'm not sure that retreating to the defense of a capital ship isn't a valid tactic... but the enemy would have tactics of their own if that happened, like advancing their capital ships closer to engage, or sending in heavier fighters/bombers to hit the armored targets. I don't think this idea is feasible in GSF though. because at the very least no one wants this to become NPC vs NPC battles. I'm also not sure of the range on cap ship turrets, though it almost seems an ideal role for the tier 2 gunship using slugs and protons. But I digress.

I think the real problem is that some people just don't like deathmatch. Probably the same people who dislike arenas on the ground. I think the voice overs do a reasonable job at setting the stage for the TDM battles, and I'm excited to learn what this Iokath TDM will be like. But with 50% of maps being deathmatches after GU5.6, I think what GSF needs next content wise is another objective based game mode. (After some tutorial improvements along the lines of what has been proposed by many smarter pilots than myself.)
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Verain's Avatar


Verain
10.31.2017 , 03:11 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by phalczen View Post
I'm also not sure of the range on cap ship turrets
10km. But after "capship dentistry" back on Bastion, where we could meaningfully destroy enough turrets to farm food ships on spawn, the devs correctly upped the health of them. They are still destroyable, but a team of gunships will have a hard time destroying even three in an entire match. If the turrets were meant to be an interactable mechanic, they would have much lower health, lower damage and armor piercing, and the ability to group respawn after a time.

Quote:
I think what GSF needs next content wise is another objective based game mode.
GSF could really use a new game mode, that's for damned sure. I wonder if there's a game mode that could be played on the existing maps- otherwise the price tag for a new game mode will include at minimum two maps, and probably be put into the "never ever" bucket instead of the "just maybe if we are lucky" bucket.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

Ramalina's Avatar


Ramalina
10.31.2017 , 06:12 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Verain View Post
If the turrets were meant to be an interactable mechanic, they would have much lower health, lower damage and armor piercing, and the ability to group respawn after a time.
That's not a bad idea for a supplemental soft anti-camp mechanism in TDM.

Some additional changes I'd make are upping the range on the turrets to at least 15.5 or 16 km. You wouldn't want gunships to be able to just plink away from outside of cap ship turret range. You'd probably also have to give them EMP and Ion AOE immunity, or at least resistance to the disables.

You could even stack different types getting creative. 16 km railgun drone clones, 8 km range missile drone clones, and 5 km interdiction clone drones. Maybe all with the health of bombers?

If they counted for requisition, turret kill achieves, and were reasonably balanced in difficulty (no kill points of course) beating up the Cap ships might be a nice change of pace from farming noobs. If getting super fancy, you'd even increment range, damage, and health with each respawn.
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