Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Prospective Future Game Expansion Theme: Collapse of the Sith Empire

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Prospective Future Game Expansion Theme: Collapse of the Sith Empire

Nick_J_Herrmann's Avatar


Nick_J_Herrmann
10.20.2017 , 09:16 PM | #1
I regret that so many members of the SWTOR RP community adopted a negative outlook toward the KotFE/KotET expansion. I consider it absolutely brilliant that we got to look at the secret activities of the Sith Emperor outside his involvement leading the Sith Empire. For those RPers who were turned off by the latest expansion story, I’d offer to you to keep in mind that the story was not principally about the Alliance Commander (your character), or the rise of the Eternal Alliance, or the short-lived dominance of the Eternal Empire. That expansion was entirely centered on one individual: the Sith Emperor. It was a brilliantly written story that filled in so many gaps SWTOR story fans like myself have had for years about what the Sith Emperor has been focused on during his prolonged “silence.” Charles Boyd did a fantastic job in a previous forum post explaining and tying in how the Fallen Empire expansion brought a lot of those story puzzle pieces together.

I’m getting pretty stoked about the upcoming release of Star Wars: Battlefront II. Story writing is the absolute best part of any game for me, and I’m excited to explore the Imperial perspective of the events immediately following their loss at the Battle of Endor. My excitement over Battlefront’s upcoming release, coupled with my enthusiastic participation in SWTOR gameplay and RP has struck a very exciting idea upon me.

To my mind, the SWTOR game story is at the perfect spot for Bioware to start taking us down the road of the collapse of the current Sith Empire.

In Old Republic lore, at the conclusion of the Great Hyperspace War (5,000 BBY), the Old Sith Empire is nearly totally obliterated, all the major Sith figures like Marka Ragnos, Naga Sadow, and Ludo Kressh, have either passed, or are on their way out. The Sith Emperor claims lordship over the remains of the Empire, and leads them into a long exile, eventually rediscovering Dromund Kaas and reestablishing the Empire. From that point, the Empire-entire, including all the rival Sith lords, are bound by one thing: their total obedience to the Sith Emperor. Loyalty to the Emperor is very much at the center of Sith and Imperial culture.

It must be that the events of Shadow of Revan and Fallen Empire had a tremendously profound impact on the Sith Empire with regard to its leadership continuity but also may have called into question things like how Imperials relate to the Sith after the Emperor’s betrayal. If the center of an Imperial’s life is service to the Emperor, who has since betrayed the Empire, that takes Imperial culture and turns it on its head.

The events of KotFE saw not only the betrayal of the Sith Emperor to his former Empire, but the demise of the twelve-member Dark Council, and the ascension of Empress Acina (although player choices on Iokath make it possible for her to be killed as well). There is a significant power vacuum in the Sith Empire right now, and given the tendency of Sith lords to engage in reckless infighting in the quest for more power, if a single, powerful figure (like Darth Jadus?) does not step in to take the reigns soon, I think it makes sense from a writing-perspective to start drawing up plans for the demise of the Sith Empire in its current form.

How might the collapse of the Sith Empire be written into game expansions and updates?


Certainly I’d like to see a story arc like this drawn out over a lengthy period (like KotFE/KotET was). There’s plenty of existing lore information for several game updates to be introduced that periodically take use down the path of destruction of the Sith Empire. A few ideas I’ve brainstormed include (but are most certainly not limited to. Imagination on the part of the Bioware writers is the limit!):

Reappearance of the Emperor’s Hand. The Emperor’s Hand were twelve Sith purebloods who tended to personal or important matters as directed by the Sith Emperor. While the Dark Council oversaw the day-to-day management of the Empire, the Hand were the direct enforcers of the Emperor’s will. Most people, including some Dark Council members, were not even aware of the Hand’s existence. An important thing to remember about the Hand was that all members were exploited by the Emperor physically and mentally, as he fed off them for strength. In Servant Two’s case, his mental bond to the Emperor was so strong he had lost more than one marble in his head.

I would certainly like to see the return of at least some members (Servants One and Two especially) of the Emperor’s Hand in a potential game expansion centered on the Sith Empire’s demise. The final death of Vitiate is sure to have had a critical impact on them. My ruling idea right now is that the members could be written back into the story as having gone mad at the loss of Vitiate and the breaking of their mental bond. Borrowing a bit from the upcoming Battlefront II game, I’d like to see the Hand secretly return to the Empire and initiate their own version of “Operation: Cinder” to burn away what remains of Vitiate’s “failed” Empire.

Darth Vowrawn. Bless the Bioware writers for already writing this excellent character back into the game. I seem to recall prior to the invasion of the Eternal Empire, Darth Marr was the Dark Council’s most senior member (having been on the Council the longest), but Vowrawn was the oldest. I think Vowrawn is a critical character in the Empire’s story right now and I’m curious to see what plans (if any) Bioware has for him.

For an Empire in chaos, I think a lot of people have overlooked Vowrawn’s importance, and what he likely represents to many Imperials, Sith in particular. Vowrawn is a representation of the Empire’s strength, purity, tradition, and culture in the years before the emergence of Zakuul. Vowrawn is best known to players as a sophistically-mannered, politically-savvy, self-interested Sith lord. But I think that, story-wise, the events of KotFE could have had a profound impact on Vowrawn’s outlook and caused some reprioritization on his part.

I think one benefit of a game expansion exploring the downfall of this Sith Empire is to set the stage and connect the dots for the emergence of the next future Sith organization (which, in this case, I believe is Darth Ruin’s New Sith. Forgive me if I have my lore wrong.) I think Vowrawn could be an excellent puzzle piece to tie the collapse of the current Sith Empire to future Sith organization.

This is what I’m thinking. Being the politically-savvy creature he is, I think Vowrawn is intelligent and realistic enough to accept that the Sith Empire is on its way out. Now that it’s known that the Emperor betrayed them, and the realization that the Treaty of Coruscant really marked the beginning of their end has set in, I think Vowrawn is well positioned to start maneuvering to secure the future of the Sith. I’d like to see him muster as many willing Sith as he can accumulate to follow his lead into a new exile. Korriban probably would not be adequate since its location is known to the Republic but perhaps he leads them to the Malachor system, Ziost (who’d expect that), elsewhere in Sith space, or into the Unknown Regions. This would be an excellent way to lay the groundwork for the eventual emergence of future Sith groups and entities in the far future, including those led by Darth Ruin.

Sith Infighting. Much of an expansion about the Sith Empire’s collapse would address this subject. I’d like to see an update that covers a lot of Sith and Imperial infighting. Factions forming and turning against each other. Perhaps it starts subtly as murders and ploys and evolves into open conflict between Darths and prominent lords. In the same way Battlefront II will portray the Imperial perspective of events, I’d like to see Imperials in the Sith Empire and how they feel about being turned on their brothers and sisters by power-mad Sith lords. This infighting would be the most significant factor in the downfall of the current Sith Empire.

Imperial Loyalists. While many Sith would turn on one another for power, I’m sure there’d be a few Sith and many Imperials who’d struggle to maintain the current order of the Sith Empire. I’d expect to see traditionalists rally to preserve their culture and place in the galaxy. Even if it’s all in vain, aristocratically-minded Imperial moffs, admirals, and generals would proudly (and arrogantly) muster a token defense of the Empire.

I’d like to see Minister of War Ilyan Regus lead the charge to preserve Imperial society, life, power, and prestige in the galaxy. With Acina’s current status kind of up-in-the-air, I think Regus is a more-than-suitable spiritual successor as a great defender of the Empire to Darth Marr. Inevitably, the Sith Empire will collapse, but I’d like to see the story be told of the brave Imperials that fought to hold it together.

Chiss Abandonment. For all I know, November’s game update may touch on this. The Chiss Ascendancy is the only real ally the Sith Empire has had in its latest conflict with the Galactic Republic. The shock of the Zakuulan invasion, couple with a prospective increase of Sith infighting, might just be enough to convince the Ruling Families to cut their losses and retreat into isolation. The Chiss seem to always act in accordance with what is best for their people first, and I don’t see them eagerly rushing to the aid of a declining Empire vainly struggling to retain power. I think the time may be coming for the Chiss to respectfully tip their hats to the Sith and retreat into the isolative safety of the Unknown Regions, not to be seen again until the rise of Thrawn.



What are your thoughts on a potential game expansion focused on the fall of the Sith Empire?

Is that something you’d like to see?

What sort of things do you think we’d see in a story for this?

For Imperial RPers, do you think it’d kill your Imp-side RP? Do you think it’d be fun to RP? Can you write it into your own characters’ stories?

IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
10.20.2017 , 09:29 PM | #2
I think one of the main issues with making a game expac about the fall of the Sith Empire is that many players are Imperial side. In a war there can be give and take - the Imperials win some battles; the Republic wins others, and there's some back and forth. But IMHO an expac that is all about one side or the other completely failing will not go over very well.

Tadagyt's Avatar


Tadagyt
10.20.2017 , 09:31 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
I think one of the main issues with making a game expac about the fall of the Sith Empire is that many players are Imperial side.
Even my pub toons sided with the Empire (Iokath story arc), so yeah... not loving the idea
Theronite & Arcannite

Long live the Empire!

Willjb's Avatar


Willjb
10.20.2017 , 09:41 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
I think one of the main issues with making a game expac about the fall of the Sith Empire is that many players are Imperial side. In a war there can be give and take - the Imperials win some battles; the Republic wins others, and there's some back and forth. But IMHO an expac that is all about one side or the other completely failing will not go over very well.
^I strongly agree. Not interested. Would rather see Malgus come back and wreek havoc, more of a war going on between Jedi and Sith, or something new.

Nebdar's Avatar


Nebdar
10.20.2017 , 10:23 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Nick_J_Herrmann View Post
For those RPers who were turned off by the latest expansion story, I’d offer to you to keep in mind that the story was not principally about the Alliance Commander (your character), or the rise of the Eternal Alliance, or the short-lived dominance of the Eternal Empire. That expansion was entirely centered on one individual: the Sith Emperor.
Yes finally someone other notices it that for proper "story experience" you must 'realize' who is the pillar/main character for the All 1.0-5.0 story(Emperror).

With that in mind all the pieces of story fit together.

Quote:
To my mind, the SWTOR game story is at the perfect spot for Bioware to start taking us down the road of the collapse of the current Sith Empire.
The Republic is leader less ... Jedi Order is leaderless ... so Collapse of the Republic is also 'happening'
I think that DEV's will create the Republic vs Empire story environment(many player ask for it) while in process you will be saving one and destroying the other (possible cross faction choice)

But that could be future story....

IMHO or guess Todays 'betrayer' story will lead to stooping the Galaxy Mass Murder Ritual, created by Emperor's Servants to Resurrect the Valkorion
Chancellor Keith has ordered construction of New Mega Servers. 5 servers to Rule them ALL. Rebels Beware!
We had our New Hope chapter in SWTOR development it seems now is the time for E(A)mpire Strikes Back or will there will be Return of The Jedi?

Eshvara's Avatar


Eshvara
10.20.2017 , 11:01 PM | #6
The empire always seems to get hit in stories, lost our emperor, lost Malgus, lost Marr lost Jadus lost a proper functioning Dark Council. Acina basically dead.
...!?

Stahp butchering my Empire!!
#Arcannite
For The Empire

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu's Avatar


uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
10.20.2017 , 11:28 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Nick_J_Herrmann View Post
I regret that so many members of the SWTOR RP community adopted a negative outlook toward the KotFE/KotET expansion. I consider it absolutely brilliant that we got to look at the secret activities of the Sith Emperor outside his involvement leading the Sith Empire. For those RPers who were turned off by the latest expansion story, I’d offer to you to keep in mind that the story was not principally about the Alliance Commander (your character), or the rise of the Eternal Alliance, or the short-lived dominance of the Eternal Empire. That expansion was entirely centered on one individual: the Sith Emperor. It was a brilliantly written story that filled in so many gaps SWTOR story fans like myself have had for years about what the Sith Emperor has been focused on during his prolonged “silence.” Charles Boyd did a fantastic job in a previous forum post explaining and tying in how the Fallen Empire expansion brought a lot of those story puzzle pieces together.
Sorry but absolutely no to that part. It was in no way well written IMO. I mean there are SOOOOOOOOOOO many holes it's ridiculous. To name a few, the droid on Iokath who tries to kill Vaylin then after being smashed decides "Hey, why don't I give her a MASSIVE helping hand here" and gives her full control of the fleet again. Why? Absolutely zero logical reasons given there whatsoever, another big one for me is why exactly does "Kneel before the Dragon of Zakuul" suddenly work against Valk in the final fight and be like his kryptonite for no stated reason whatsoever other than "Hey, this is happening in MY head so why not?" for gods sakes by that standard you could have just imagined him dead at the very start of the bloody mission and been done with it It just seems soooooooo cringe to me. Honestly if I sat here writing this for the next ten minutes I could name at least 5 more of these dumb, dumb moments. I think overall it was a decent Jedi story but hardly anything epic. You can't tell me it didn't feel ridiculous on any non force user class?

And as to learning more about what Valk did during his silence we already knew that didn't we? Before this KOTFE stuff ever got vomited out onto us it was my understanding he had been silent because Baras had kept his voice imprisoned on Voss for one and for another Revan had been manipulating his thoughts while imprisoned. KOTFE just rolled over those details and made them pretty irrelevant. Which I consider bad writing. Also makes Revan pretty irrelevant as a whole. His entire story with the Exile and Scourge and the whole Jedi Knight prophecy stuff makes very little sense in all this now. In my opinion the writers just ignored too much. They should have left Vitiate dead permanently at the end of the JK story and just sat down and came up with a better villain. Honestly KOTFE would have been a better story in my mind if it WASN'T connected to Vitiate. If Valk was just a totally new threat. That's how I force myself to play through it mostly lol I just think of Valk as a new guy.

I must say about the rest of your post though I would enjoy the idea honestly. We already know the Pubs win this after all and Imp players just gotta deal with that fact and I say that as a mainly Imp player myself. It'd be cool to see how the Imps finally lose and seeing Imp characters deal with it. I don't see how Imp players could really be THAT annoyed seeing as honestly we've left the Empire LONG ago anyways so we could easily still be a solo power. But obviously I don't think they should do that expansion until the game is definitely close to death because I'd like to see that as the end of the story as a whole you know? Shouldn't really be more expansions following that. The stories, buildup and trailers of the original game were all about this war so it'd be nice to close the game with showing us how it's finally won.

Willjb's Avatar


Willjb
10.20.2017 , 11:35 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Eshvara View Post
The empire always seems to get hit in stories, lost our emperor, lost Malgus, lost Marr lost Jadus lost a proper functioning Dark Council. Acina basically dead.
...!?

Stahp butchering my Empire!!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu's Avatar


uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
10.20.2017 , 11:44 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Eshvara View Post
The empire always seems to get hit in stories, lost our emperor, lost Malgus, lost Marr lost Jadus lost a proper functioning Dark Council. Acina basically dead.
...!?

Stahp butchering my Empire!!
Well, the pubs have lost two chancellors and a LOT of the Council. I mean all the ones we've seen are dead or out of action that I know of. And then Jace Malcom is in the same boat as Acina.

Edit: I wonder how long Chancellor New Guy lasts?

Eshvara's Avatar


Eshvara
10.20.2017 , 11:48 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu View Post
Well, the pubs have lost two chancellors and a LOT of the Council. I mean all the ones we've seen are dead or out of action that I know of. And then Jace Malcom is in the same boat as Acina.

Edit: I wonder how long Chancellor New Guy lasts?
Satele seems to be the republic big shot that's always safe. She's equal to Malgus in importance with their history. Where's my Satele flashpoint?
But on a serious note, all our Empire big names are basically gone.
#Arcannite
For The Empire