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ThrakhathSpawn's Avatar


ThrakhathSpawn
10.14.2017 , 12:24 PM | #11
I think its a much easier adjustment for those that flew strike fighters with quick charge shield, we're using to dodging fire without relying on evasion or big shield pools.

My slicing Imperium when I played as Floor Jansen would get lots of torpedo hits on players, just not it was a rare setup to see.

The EMP is perhaps a little overkill on the adjustment, but I'll take it over the previous version.

It was gunships and ion spam that actually enabled bomer stacking, without GS or Scout support I could pick off a bomber, pick of another, then start killing them on the way to the sat, steadily reducing their numbers. With ion spam, I can't get that energy, or be on the sat. Ion didn't solve the bomber problem, it actually made it worse in that the assaulting team wouldn't have energy.
If it weren't for all the other kinds of ships everyone would fly a strike fighter.

FlavivsAetivs's Avatar


FlavivsAetivs
10.14.2017 , 03:10 PM | #12
Isa I tried to explain this to you over the past week but you've been somewhat reluctant to listen.

Missiles are not unbreakable, distortion field only breaks the lock now - once the missile has been fired at you, only your engine ability will break it.

And once the servers merge queue pops should go through the roof - current estimates say "Star Forge" will be larger than Harbinger currently is. Besides a bunch of your friends are coming back to the game because of these new changes and the upcoming merge + new map.
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Ramalina's Avatar


Ramalina
10.14.2017 , 03:41 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by nyghtrunner View Post
I'm not on board the "we needed more CC" train. I can agree that we needed more AoE to deter bomber stacking, but I don't really find it that much fun going through matches where I get locked out of swapping weapons, using shields, and using engines for a solid 50% of the match, especially if trying to defend a node.

There's a part of me that's very much with Isalina in this. The most annoying part of Ion Rail was never the AoE, but the feeling of helplessness from the drain and snare. Adding more snares in EMP and Remote Slicing that straight disable two of your 1-3 abilities isn't fun for me. And the ~20 matches or so that I played had me throwing my arms up in frustration and thinking, "Of course! Why should I be allowed to use my Engine right now?!" more often than I enjoyed.

Systems? Annoying, but OK. Shields? Again, annoying (and effectively nullifying the usefulness of directionals altogether), but whatever. But the engines? That's like adding an ability that stops you from using your stun break in ground PVP.
It should be noted that the lockouts were on those components before 5.5. Also that for EMP Field and EMP missile that while they can be used more times per minute, their overall uptime of lockouts has been conserved by shortening the duration, which actually makes it a bit weaker as an aid to landing missiles (though missiles need much less aid to land now). In terms of lockdown, RS, which used to be generally regarded as totally uncompetitive, is the only one that got a buff. The rest of the buffs were just geared at QoL in terms of increasing the probability that one could use the anti-bomber stacking properties of these tools without suiciding to the mines in the process.

You're not seeing them because of new CC (it was already there) or stronger CC (strength was conserved), you're seeing them because they now perform their utility functions well enough that people want to take them. The damage to player ships could maybe be nerfed, because while it's a nice bonus for the user, I don't think anyone is actually taking these abilities for the damage done.

There's also a real tradeoff for taking these things. Remote Slicing is very much a trolling component, and it's quite the warty little troll, but it doesn't hurt and kill the way a true offensive component does. Likewise, the EMP components are sacrificing significant potential damage output for the sake of utility effects that are best taken advantage of by someone else on the team.

There are more good utility ships now. It used to be that you'd want a few beacon bombers in DOM, a few dronecarriers in TDM, and a tensor scout or two for the first few seconds of DOM. Every other ship was better off being the very solo-carry friendly T2 Scout, T1 gunship, or T3 gunship. That's basically a pool of 5 of 12 ships, with 2 utilities and 3 solo carries and a meta that heavily favored skewing team balance toward the solo carries.

Now we have a pool of 11 of twelve ships, with 5 solo carries (T1F, T1G, T2G, T3G, T2S), 3 utility ships (T3S, Minelayer, Dronecarrier), and 3 that can be built for either (T1S, T2F, T3F). Solo carry ships are no longer the majority of viable builds, so it's not surprising to see a lot more utility builds throwing around utility effects in matches.

The utility builds do retain their classic weakness though. They dish out less damage and are less efficient at killing, so if there is more utility on a team than that team needs, then the team's performance starts to fall off. This has always been there as well in the solo queue. In a Dom if no one picks a tensor scout to start, that hurts the team, but if 7 people pick tensor scouts that also hurts the team. All that's changed is that optimal ship selection for the solo queuer is now complicated by a great expansion in the number of choices available. As a result communication in the ops chat at the start of a match is now more valuable than it used to be.

At the high skill organized level, what I've seen so far is that 1 or 2 EMP ships are as much as you want unless the other team is taking a nearly all bombers approach, in which case you might want one more EMP ship.

In the solo queue, the same balance principles still apply, it's just that people aren't that great at taking advantage of them. If you're being drowned in controls, it's because the other team threw away a lot of damage potential that could have done them more good.

There is also an element of L2P for everyone. Or more accurately, Re-L2P. A lot has changed, and if one doesn't adapt to the change that's a disadvantage playing against people that are adapting.

There's also might be some "shiny new toy" syndrome going on. I've seen some pretty stupid team comps recently that probably had more to do with people wanting to try out builds that never worked before than with the notion that having 6 sources of EMP on a team is in any way a good idea.

I hope you stick around. With bomber ball and gunship wall dislodgement now being practical, it's actually more useful than ever to have a really good solo-carry pilot in one of the classic solo carry ships on the team. Someone needs to swoop in for the kill after the utilities have been utilized after all.
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Nasja's Avatar


Nasja
10.15.2017 , 01:37 AM | #14
Isa,

Don't worry too much about the missiles and torpedoes which are now more common these days then railguns. Off course, everyone wants to try out strikes.

And you should too, I am sure with your bomber & scout experience you can fly a strike very well too. Fun matches do happen. Eudo and I had 2 of them yesterday.
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Magira's Avatar


Magira
10.15.2017 , 10:35 AM | #15
I am very happy. There's so much to experiment with on almost every ship. I'm on Pike and Sledghammer, they're really good ships now, I didn't even have them in the hangar before. It's almost like the beginning, only better. I couldn't even fly straight ahead at that time.
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Exocor's Avatar


Exocor
10.15.2017 , 11:46 AM | #16
Yeah, I liked the Pike before due to it's two missiles. That it got buffed now is like playing a merc heal in pvp and getting it buffed like it got with the launch of 5.0. It feels a bit op, but let's see what happens in the next weeks, when players are finished testing the new stuff.
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orangenee
10.15.2017 , 02:45 PM | #17
I just wish GSF would pop on Progenitor....
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Isalina's Avatar


Isalina
11.11.2017 , 03:01 AM | #18
Well , tried all the tricks i know ... when you are facing 6-8 SF per game in constant lock with a GS or 2 adding ion spam to engines , it's a "curb stomp" (yes i had help with that phrase) . idk if you are playing matches but it's shocking , groups of SF's roll in and you are in constant lock even to 12km (i was taking notice of distance), last match vs imps was 50-3 , i class my self as a "moderate" pilot with the 2 pub kills (sorry to drag you in Rose ,but she got the other 1 ) , 3 kills 2 good pilots. And tyvm Trae , Tobias and Eudo for the kind words but again it's a "curb stomp" and i dont want to pay money for this anymore, or ride it out for another 12 months like the ion cheater gun. When i started in 2013 this game was fun and honourable, now its just crushing defeats , 3 caps and anything goes with more cheater guns and less skill ...not what i signed up for.

Draqsko's Avatar


Draqsko
11.11.2017 , 03:24 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Isalina View Post
When i started in 2013 this game was fun and honourable, now its just crushing defeats , 3 caps and anything goes with more cheater guns and less skill ...not what i signed up for.
That is simply player mentality, the same one that made GSF pops dry out in the first place. I'm sure the components are pretty well balanced, but because I am constantly on teams of noobs against premades there is no way I could even judge that fairly because I am constantly focus fired right out of respawn with no one to peel for me. The only thing that would fix that, would be to have a ranking system in place so inexperienced players didn't get matched against veterans.

Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
11.11.2017 , 05:52 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Isalina View Post
Well , tried all the tricks i know ... when you are facing 6-8 SF per game in constant lock with a GS or 2 adding ion spam to engines , it's a "curb stomp" (yes i had help with that phrase) . idk if you are playing matches but it's shocking , groups of SF's roll in and you are in constant lock even to 12km (i was taking notice of distance), last match vs imps was 50-3 , i class my self as a "moderate" pilot with the 2 pub kills (sorry to drag you in Rose ,but she got the other 1 ) , 3 kills 2 good pilots. And tyvm Trae , Tobias and Eudo for the kind words but again it's a "curb stomp" and i dont want to pay money for this anymore, or ride it out for another 12 months like the ion cheater gun. When i started in 2013 this game was fun and honourable, now its just crushing defeats , 3 caps and anything goes with more cheater guns and less skill ...not what i signed up for.
I'm pretty sure I know the game you're talking about here Isalina. That game was just a feeding frenzy and we were just messing around firing Torps all game.

Here's the video of it from my point view. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/200380082


There's plenty here to go over but it's pretty obvious your team is just completely outmatched, it didn't really have much to do with what ships or components anyone was using.

If you do decide to keep playing I'd be happy to explain tactics on how to avoid getting protoned even when solo queueing. If you look at the beginning of my stream yesterday I plenty many games while Solo ing, which might help you. I'd also be willing to go through the video I just linked with you or if you have the ability to record go through those with you.

Anyways if you do decide to leave I'm sorry to hear that but I really do believe this is the best GSF has ever been.
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