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Star Fortress balancing


CrazyScruffy's Avatar


CrazyScruffy
10.05.2017 , 10:05 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by LordFell View Post
To be clear... all my characters that are finishing up this kind of content are level 70, with 228/230 gear. I also have level 10 influence with all the Alliance Specialists (minimum) on all these characters... and my companions generally have an influence of 20 to 30.

...I'm not a super serious player, but then again, I used to main-heal my guild's raid team, and would sometimes get called to main-tank the raid team as well. I mean, before my guild died. I know what I'm doing, and I can handle a challenge, but there's reasonable limits.

I have all 8 class stories, so my Heroic Moment has all 8 abilities. I went into the Exarch fight (pretty sure it was Voss) with all 4 of the Alliance special gear packs you get from fighting the named Knights of Zakuul... if the cooldown on Heroic Moment is 2 minutes, I popped Heroic moment at least TEN times. If I got the Exarch down to 20% he'd just spam his heal until he was back up to 50%.

If the reality is that I *need* to get my companion to Influence 50 to do this... that's utter crap. Another instance of making the Companion the vessel that determines how successful my character is. No. No freaking way. My character is the Outlander. The Alliance Commander. The one destined to control the Eternal Throne... not "the guy who can only succeed if he grinds influence with his companion to level 50."

*I honestly believe that this encounter is not winnable solo, and that is poor game design.
*A fight that literally went on for 20 minutes isn't good game design either; it's frustrating tedium.
*I'm only doing this content because it's "necessary" not because it's FUN or GOOD, this, also, is poor game design.
1- your belief is wrong, people solo this content all the time. On heroic. did it without any buffs for the achievement.
2- Fight does not have to go on for 20 minutes, it only lasts that long if you don't know what you're doing.
3- this content is not necessary, you can easily skip it with no change to the actual story. And they are fun, and were a good design. It was something new for us to play
4- I don't care what you supposedly did in your guild, OPS are not that difficult for any role. and if you were "supposedly" able to perform such in the ops, then SFs should be a breeze for you.

LordFell's Avatar


LordFell
10.06.2017 , 12:13 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by CrazyScruffy View Post
1- your belief is wrong, people solo this content all the time. On heroic. did it without any buffs for the achievement.
2- Fight does not have to go on for 20 minutes, it only lasts that long if you don't know what you're doing.
3- this content is not necessary, you can easily skip it with no change to the actual story. And they are fun, and were a good design. It was something new for us to play
4- I don't care what you supposedly did in your guild, OPS are not that difficult for any role. and if you were "supposedly" able to perform such in the ops, then SFs should be a breeze for you.
With no respect at all intended... you don't know what you're talking about.

The other thing that you need to keep in mind is... Star Fortresses are DEAD CONTENT. People who are NOT end game ready have to be able to do these... even if someone doesn't want to liberate all 4 planets, they STILL have to be able to do AT LEAST ONE... while they're STILL doing the START of the KotFE expansion. The START, not the END.
....A level 65 character with a gearscore of about 216 should be able to solo the Heroic, and I'm certain that's not possible.

JattaGin's Avatar


JattaGin
10.06.2017 , 01:26 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by CrazyScruffy View Post
2- Fight does not have to go on for 20 minutes, it only lasts that long if you don't know what you're doing.
Please tell me how do you interrupt the Voss-bosses self-heal if your interrupts are on cool-down? I read that you played a tank, so maybe you have enough interrupts available. But how do you beat the boss as a commando medic when you yourself barely do any DPS, have only few interrupts with very high CD and your companion's DPS equals the self-heal (more or less)?

That's a scenario where you get a 20 minutes long fight and you realise that neither side will go down, because there is nothing you can do about it. I have experienced exactly the same as the OP. Only with my medic, mind you. And only the Voss-boss. Because I can only interrupt every second self-heal. This leads to the described stalemate.

In my opinion, it depends on the class that you play, more specifically, the amount of interrupt abilities this class has. And all classes should be able to defeat the Voss-boss (if the player plays properly).
Bioware offers a friend referal system which gives referred players a couple of goodies (incl. 7 free days of sub and a neat free inventory slot for every character) and referring players some little shinies and cartel coins.
I would be happy if you choose my referral link to grab your free goodies.

Storm-Cutter's Avatar


Storm-Cutter
10.06.2017 , 04:08 AM | #24
you have to cycle your interrups, knockbacks, pushbacks and stus /mezzes. - And possibly micromanage your companion a bit as well.

There are also several aids you collect around the star fortress, the grenades and sentry gun to name but two.
A few stun grenades might help - tho' they're on a long cooldown IIRC.

- You might also try differing roles for your character and/or your companion.

have to know a bit about your class abilities and utilities; your rotation; use of stims and adrenals; and study the mechanics a bit to know what casts to interrupt and which you can avoid or mitigate, and what looks scary but actually doesn't hurt much.

But it certainly isn't difficult to do even without all these things. It's old content and you're probably already over-geared for it, OP, so just hone your abilities a little. - If you can survive 20 mins, you can surely burn the end boss down in a few minutes. GL.
-Storm Cutter.
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Viperswhip's Avatar


Viperswhip
10.06.2017 , 12:13 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by JattaGin View Post
Please tell me how do you interrupt the Voss-bosses self-heal if your interrupts are on cool-down? I read that you played a tank, so maybe you have enough interrupts available. But how do you beat the boss as a commando medic when you yourself barely do any DPS, have only few interrupts with very high CD and your companion's DPS equals the self-heal (more or less)?

That's a scenario where you get a 20 minutes long fight and you realise that neither side will go down, because there is nothing you can do about it. I have experienced exactly the same as the OP. Only with my medic, mind you. And only the Voss-boss. Because I can only interrupt every second self-heal. This leads to the described stalemate.

In my opinion, it depends on the class that you play, more specifically, the amount of interrupt abilities this class has. And all classes should be able to defeat the Voss-boss (if the player plays properly).
Even if a boss is not knocked back by a knockback, the interrupt still applies. Also, a level 40 companion is super tedious to do if you use the rank 1 gift method, but it's only about 600k or something, and a level 40 companion, best ranged here I think is best for DPS role, will do a very nice job in there.

exfell's Avatar


exfell
10.06.2017 , 01:34 PM | #26
This thread reminded me that it has been a really long while since I've done a starfortress so wanted to test.
Heroic/veteran mode done with dps sin in old 208 pvp gear with old augs and a level 11 companion. Nope, it's not tuned impossible yet.
Ref linky http://www.swtor.com/r/LCKynR
Quote: Originally Posted by CrazyCT View Post
Ah, 5 people demanding it and 5 people against it - Ladies and Gentlemen, I present "The Majority".

Thruine's Avatar


Thruine
10.06.2017 , 03:01 PM | #27
I've decided to start doing these again due to this thread since I never did all of them. Going to try the Voss one today and so far they play pretty much the same as the first. I believe one of the benefits you get from your advisors is an interrupt to help when yours are on cool down. We'll see how it goes. I like using the turret from the advisors since that speeds up the fight and if you need some breathing room it usually taunts for a bit. I think all those abilities have a 3 minute cool down except the heal.

Old content like this usually does become something people forget and gets ignored when balancing happens. They still haven't fixed the bug encounter when i have to resummon my companion after every elevator. But they all seem the same so far in terms of run through and final boss. I even encountered a bug where none of the shield protection (whatever its called) dropped so I couldn't get through the last bit to the final boss. I got the stuff to drain the boss on the lower levels but never the shield. First time I'd ever seen that.

I know its probably not welcomed but its just something to keep at. Eventually you'll find the combination that lets you pull out a win. I think its possible (or should be) to eventually win. It would be nicer if all specs had equal chance but I don't think that's likely to happen for these at this date.

KhaoTicTycoon's Avatar


KhaoTicTycoon
10.06.2017 , 04:04 PM | #28
Just to throw in my 2 cents on the subject, The SF's don't need re-balancing. On the matter of it being OLD/DEAD content while true, it did get scaled up to level 70, so the notion that it should be doable for the majority of players in old 220 and under gear is not necessarily true; not to say that it can't be done however. With that being said let me try and offer some specific advice @ the OP.

From what I've gathered you say you're trying to beat the Voss Exarch on your Shadow Tank that's in 228/230 gear but he/she is out healing your DPS. The short and simple answer is that you need to do more DPS. Period. To elaborate further, I'm going to assume you're using the "standard" tanking gear-out of Shield/Absorb Earpiece & Implants and tanking relics along with un-modified crate gear. If so, then you need to adjust your gear.

Without going into the specifics of WHY, I'm simply going to recommend that you use:
  1. Crit Earpiece & Implants
  2. Mastery & Power Proc Relics

Depending on cost, I also recommend replacing the standard mods and enhancements from the crate gear with:
  1. Crafted Lethal B AND/OR Warding B mods
  2. Crafted Low Def / Med Def enhancements (Steadfast/Vigilant or Bastion/Bulwark enhancements)

Lastly, augment for Power and endurance instead of all Shield/Absorb depending on the type and level of content you plan to play. Hope this helps.

LordFell's Avatar


LordFell
10.06.2017 , 04:16 PM | #29
This is not a Lern2Play issue
I have 8 level 70 toons (Combat Medic, Scrapper, Kinetic Shadow, Concentration Sentinel, Shield Tech, Marksman, Corruption Sorcerer, Immortal Juggernaut) and I've played another half dozen or so characters up to level 40 or so before deleting or shelving them. I've both Main Healed and Main Tanked 16 man Ops for a big Guild. I have a very, very good idea of how to play the game... you might want to argue that my skill level could still be higher (maybe) but you can't argue that it needs to be higher, because this isn't end game content anymore.

My gear, my companion, or my Alliance needs to be better
No... no it doesn't. I'm running these with a gearscore of 228/230, an Alliance with at least level 10 influence across the board (and you Do Not Need Higher than 10 to get the Alliance Buffs) and my Companions are generally level 20 to 25. Again... this is NOT end game content... but my gear is definitely good enough to start end game content.

Don't nerf all the challenge out of SWTOR!!
Uhm.... no. This isn't a "challenge" per se... it's just kinda broken. Challenge is when you need to learn not to stand in a certain spot, or group up at a certain time, or do "some specific thing" to beat an encounter. This isn't a challenge in that way. It's two specific bosses (Exarch of Voss and Nar Shaddaa) having a Powerful Heal that has no apparent Cooldown. Even if this weren't broken, it's still terrible game design; all it does is prolong a battle that's supposed to be a "second count cliff hanger."

Well... I did it on MY character...
Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.
...did you do it on Voss or Nar Shaddaa? What's your gearscore?
...are you keeping in mind that the only time you NEED to do a Star Fortress is towards the beginning of the KotFE expansion, when your character is (by my guess) level 65 with a gearscore of 216?
Star Fortresses need to be completable by a character that is NOT end game ready.

Thruine's Avatar


Thruine
10.06.2017 , 09:45 PM | #30
Okay, I finally got the Voss one done and the OP is right, that one is a little rough. I definitely got frustrated. I had to remap my keys because interrupts (or interrupt as I found out) have to be my rotation (or the star of it). I found when he jumped in the air the heal would happen next usually. Then another attempt 1 second later or so making your interrupt on cool down half the time. You will miss an interrupt regardless (or I did) as he casts a second one after his first is interrupted which help drag the fight out. I used the turrent for that added dps, companion had to stay on heals or he'd just eat through it. I just gave up trying to avoid the red as he would cast the further away I was and mine is a melee interrupt.

I managed to keep him right at half before he started using it so often. He also says the same thing afterwards instead of before making that useless so had to watch his cast bar. I sort of figured out when a cast was something different but he said the same thing like he had healed so dunno if I missed on by not watching so closely. Place my turret, wait for the interrupt (seriously, it takes all your attention or it did mine) then he'd cast his next one. It took time and just wearing him down as I could always keep him from regaining all he'd lose..

That's all the information I remember that might be helpful.

I just thought of something, is this one of the games you can choose difficulty on? I know mine's not hard because i suck at button smash gameplay. This was long compared to the others (I seriously had no issue with any of the others as none healed like this). Maybe that's it? Anyways, I could only interrupt the first cast after he landed. Even the interrupt you get from the advisor is a ground cast so not really helpful for me after all.