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220 item rating with relics? ***?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
220 item rating with relics? ***?

yellow_'s Avatar


yellow_
09.25.2017 , 12:46 PM | #11
I've tested the SA/FR wind crystal relics using the bolsterizer on fleet and as far as I can tell they are actually very similar to the 248 SA/FR relics in terms of raw DPS output. My sample size is too small/bad to be certain, but I think the level 10 wind crystal relics may be slightly worse although I'm still testing.

One thing I am certain of is that they're better than middle tier relics so running these relics is a good way to get 248ish level stats without actually going through the brutal grind of getting the character to 248 and then buying the relics. I use them on my characters while they're still gearing so I can worry about everything except the relics, leaving them for last. In my opinion, this is clearly their main value. Not that they are secretly better than the ones you're "supposed" to use.

They've also got the added benefit of extra health, but the amount is not large enough to have an impact except in games where the margins for win/loss are extremely thin. Lastly, the value of having huge procs that might happen at the right moment in your rotation (or might not) versus bad or no procs in exchange for consistently high bonus damage/healing is very difficult to quantify.

tl;dr I'm not sure what to make of them yet

p.s. some interesting food for thought, if they keep upping bolster I would imagine these relics will eventually become best in slot over the 248s...
Doc
Sick Twisted Individuals

Wimbleton's Avatar


Wimbleton
09.25.2017 , 01:05 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by yellow_ View Post
Lastly, the value of having huge procs that might happen at the right moment in your rotation (or might not) versus bad or no procs in exchange for consistently high bonus damage/healing is very difficult to quantify.
Quote of the post5.0 release time continuum.

The truth is, none of these things are going to make very much difference and I think that when people are having these discussions they are looking for some huge impact to make on their character/performance. Gear is maybe 10%, and thats all gear vs no gear. Arguing the finer points of a state difference of less than 2% of a single stat is almost entirely negligible. The other 90% is going to made up of how well you play this game, and that is decided by how much time you put in (large part) and your innate ability to be good/bad/middle at a game.
The Harbinger
Imps: <Stop Resisting> Bleloch (Sorc heals), Ble (Merc heals), Beloch (Op heals)
Pubs: <Premades Ruin PvP> Friartuck (Sage heals), Baskit (Mando heals)
Plz buff Sorc! | Never Give Up! | Huttball Tightrope | Get'em All | The 9th Man

yellow_'s Avatar


yellow_
09.25.2017 , 02:06 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Wimbleton View Post
Arguing the finer points of a state difference of less than 2% of a single stat is almost entirely negligible. .
but it's fun tho
Doc
Sick Twisted Individuals

Ooha's Avatar


Ooha
09.25.2017 , 02:13 PM | #14
The item rating 50 purple relic (aka wind crystal) does in fact have a unique bolster. They directly add a few hundred mastery, while also adding a few thousand health (negligible) in pvp instances. Now, would said relic be considered OP mostly depends on the spec you're attempting to use it with. Dot specs will retain a higher up time in pvp than a burst spec. In theory, they would benefit more from a static, larger bonus damage value. While a burst spec, the damage remains chaotic. Lining up "windows" (when your relics are procced) can generate greater damage values in a short period due the exaggerated stat weights in power/mastery - especially if both are procced at the same time.
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them." - Galileo

Wimbleton's Avatar


Wimbleton
09.25.2017 , 02:21 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by yellow_ View Post
but it's fun tho
No u r
The Harbinger
Imps: <Stop Resisting> Bleloch (Sorc heals), Ble (Merc heals), Beloch (Op heals)
Pubs: <Premades Ruin PvP> Friartuck (Sage heals), Baskit (Mando heals)
Plz buff Sorc! | Never Give Up! | Huttball Tightrope | Get'em All | The 9th Man

yellow_'s Avatar


yellow_
09.25.2017 , 02:47 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Ooha View Post
Dot specs will retain a higher up time in pvp than a burst spec. In theory, they would benefit more from a static, larger bonus damage value.
I'm not sure I agree with this, and here's how I see it. If you imagine a spec that does completely consistent, unchanging trickle damage it is going to benefit from whatever relic setup provides the most amount of stat in the long run. Regardless of whether or not it comes from procs or from just a lot of passive stat. If the procs provided more overall stat they would provide more overall dps, regardless of how randomly placed in the rotation they are in this scenario.

Quote: Originally Posted by Ooha View Post
While a burst spec, the damage remains chaotic. Lining up "windows" (when your relics are procced) can generate greater damage values in a short period due the exaggerated stat weights in power/mastery - especially if both are procced at the same time.
Things get tricky here. You're right, but in order to use this line of reasoning to determine which is preferable you'd also need to account for the exaggerated waste that happens when relics proc during low damage filler or energy management windows. I have a hard time wrapping my head around figuring this one out.

I'm actually going to do something I should have already, which is visit the bolsterizer and figure which relic setup provides more raw stat, assuming good relic uptime.
Doc
Sick Twisted Individuals

Transcendent's Avatar


Transcendent
09.25.2017 , 03:15 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
I love Firebug. It lets me modify people's unwise post formatting so I can reach the "QUOTE" button.
Or you could just click on the post number by the time stamp for the post in question....

Thanks to everyone who has used my Refer a Friend link over the years, may the force be with you.

Wimbleton's Avatar


Wimbleton
09.25.2017 , 03:46 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by yellow_ View Post
I'm actually going to do something I should have already, which is visit the bolsterizer and figure which relic setup provides more raw stat, assuming good relic uptime.
I'm here for you:

This is all with self buffs, mastery stim and bolster only:
This image is the below table, easier to read: https://i.imgur.com/t4LCNL6.jpg
------------- 248 --Wind --- Dif
Mastery 7136 7846 710
Endur 8673 8875 202
Power 4159 4133 -26
Critical 1675 1605 -70
Alacrity 2097 2097 0
Health 129105 131548 2443
BonusD 3665 3807.8 142.8
BonusH 2650.3 2750 99.7
Accur101 101 0
Critical 45.39 45.61 0.22
CriticalM 70.12 69.65 -0.47
HealDissapate 5.8 5.8 0
Alacrity 16.69 16.69 0

Here's a pic, showing me in full 248s then in full 248's with the wind relics (with identical augments attached), bolstered via bolsterizer.

https://i.imgur.com/iu0vEvL.jpg

So, in short, which is better: Uncontrolable 1221 Mastery and 1221 power 6 out of every 20 seconds aka 30% uptime -OR- Constant 710 Mastery (142 BDam/100 Bheal), 2443HP (202 End).

Power, Critical Stat, Critical Actual and Critical Multiplier are all so small that you can ignore them.

For giggles I respected to Super Charged Defense which, among other things, gives me +3% endurance. This brings my HP to 134621 - that's somewhat imposing and has synergy with both Kolto Surge and Trauma Regulators.

For more giggles, with 129104 HP my kolto overload averages 3485 per tic (many thousands of tics in that number). The maximum number of tics I've gotten is 51. With that utility I could possibly increase that average to around 3740. For 51 tics that would heal me for a total of 191,000. I could also take the utility to increase self healing by 20% in energy shield, putting this somewhere near 230,000 healing from one ability. Merc balanced.
The Harbinger
Imps: <Stop Resisting> Bleloch (Sorc heals), Ble (Merc heals), Beloch (Op heals)
Pubs: <Premades Ruin PvP> Friartuck (Sage heals), Baskit (Mando heals)
Plz buff Sorc! | Never Give Up! | Huttball Tightrope | Get'em All | The 9th Man

yellow_'s Avatar


yellow_
09.25.2017 , 04:02 PM | #19
yea I already did them

248s provide more stat with decent relic uptime (~25% is the threshold), although the difference is quite small

as I suspected the wind crystal relics are a very good option when you aren't full 248s yet
Doc
Sick Twisted Individuals

SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
09.26.2017 , 02:31 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
Or you could just click on the post number by the time stamp for the post in question....
Nah, it's broken there as well. Or maybe my browser is broken (highly likely, since it *should* show a horizontal scroll bar for very wide content, but in the specific case it doesn't).
http://www.swtor.com/r/Hg3sV2
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