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Could Arcan have won?


IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
09.23.2017 , 10:18 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by adormitul View Post
Yeah you are not really an non force users with an force god that is in you. An force god that can do the following things force lighting, force healing and an force shield that can block an lightsaber.

Yeah you are not and non force user. The moment Valkorian and you shared the same body well you where no longer an non force user.
That's Valkorion, though. The BH/smuggler/etc. cannot call on the Force or use it themselves. Once they lose Valkorion they lose those abilities, too. So I don't consider them to be Force users.

adormitul's Avatar


adormitul
09.23.2017 , 12:54 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
That's Valkorion, though. The BH/smuggler/etc. cannot call on the Force or use it themselves. Once they lose Valkorion they lose those abilities, too. So I don't consider them to be Force users.
My point was that you fight Arcann with Valkorion who has the ability to protect your from the power of Arcann if he goes for the kill if you get my point. Which is more then you could do as an non force user.

He uses lighting you have an impenetrable shield that can resist an lightsaber, he use TK well you fly and get up or dodge it, he uses his lightsaber well the force shield. You could not protect against such things without Valkorian but you are not without him yet.

IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
09.23.2017 , 01:05 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by adormitul View Post
My point was that you fight Arcann with Valkorion who has the ability to protect your from the power of Arcann if he goes for the kill if you get my point. Which is more then you could do as an non force user.

He uses lighting you have an impenetrable shield that can resist an lightsaber, he use TK well you fly and get up or dodge it, he uses his lightsaber well the force shield. You could not protect against such things without Valkorian but you are not without him yet.
Yes, but it still doesn't mean the BH/etc. is a *Force user.* Just that they happen to have a teammate who is a very strong one, at that moment.

adormitul's Avatar


adormitul
09.23.2017 , 05:32 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
Yes, but it still doesn't mean the BH/etc. is a *Force user.* Just that they happen to have a teammate who is a very strong one, at that moment.
But he is not an normal non force user at this point with valkorian he got neutralization powers before he had none. With Valkorian who can block Arcann an non force user can beat him.
Lets take an example from the last battle between Senya and Vaylin. Senya managed to outmatch her daughter in lightsaber combat but she admitted that if Vaylin really wanted she could just crush her skull with the force.
Normal non force using classes without Valkorian lets assume they can avoid or even outmatch Arcann with only lightsaber attacks but when he uses the force no chance, he could crush us as easy as Vaylin crushes force users meaning very easy.
But with Valk things change he can use an force shield to shield you from force attacks that can crush you or burn you with lighting. The point is he neutralizes Arcann's force powers directed at us forcing him to attack only with his lightsaber who we are capable of dodging and countering.

Sith-Viscera's Avatar


Sith-Viscera
09.23.2017 , 07:41 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
Vaylin alone could have done, IMHO, if she had been left to her own potential and not conditioned. I fully believe that the real reason Valkorion sent her away to be tortured and driven mad, and had her power curtailed, was not because she was completely out of control...but because she actually would have had the power to take him down.
I can accept that.


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IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
09.23.2017 , 10:20 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by adormitul View Post
But with Valk things change he can use an force shield to shield you from force attacks that can crush you or burn you with lighting. The point is he neutralizes Arcann's force powers directed at us forcing him to attack only with his lightsaber who we are capable of dodging and countering.
The point is, they're still not Force users, even though they have a buddy in their head who uses the Force. Nobody ever said that was normal. But they do not call on the Force themselves the same way a Jedi or Sith does, and once Valkorion's gone they lose any power he lent to them.

Eshvara's Avatar


Eshvara
09.24.2017 , 01:11 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero
once Valkorion's gone they lose any power he lent to them.
Will they really though? If we make everyone force users, the one size fits all would work much better!
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adormitul's Avatar


adormitul
09.24.2017 , 02:47 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
The point is, they're still not Force users, even though they have a buddy in their head who uses the Force. Nobody ever said that was normal. But they do not call on the Force themselves the same way a Jedi or Sith does, and once Valkorion's gone they lose any power he lent to them.
Yes but we where not in that position with Arcann. The strange part is Arcann is terrible at blaster deflection in the second duel he even got hit by an blaster. In the third and fourth duel he had no chance. Considering he is an form 5 specialist if not master which is created to not only deflect blasters but send them right back at you its not good.

I guess he focused on Djem So mostly ignoring the more versatile and useful Shien. Vayiln has the same issue also where there not blasters in the Eternal Empire?

thebumpkin's Avatar


thebumpkin
09.24.2017 , 05:33 AM | #29
Arcann may have had an edge in KOTFE right on up to Chapter 16, I believe the biggest issue the PC had was confidence s/he was not confident that they could in fact defeat Arcann, it was only at the moment when the Shield appears that finally the PC says, yeah, I got this. But that was the only "help" you really get from Valkorion against Arcann. Valk claims he saves you in chapter 8 but.... yeah... Valkorion is an Olympic gold medallist class liar. So not really believing that.

Truth is, in KOTET if you choose to kill Senya you face Arcann at Vaylin's party and then you defeat and kill him there without any plot device help.

Also the most simple answer of all is Valkorion himself. He chose the PC for a reason, if there was somebody better or more skilled, Valk would be in them. Simple as that.
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Shayddow's Avatar


Shayddow
09.24.2017 , 05:37 AM | #30
It seems as though the force using class of Zakuul - the knights - are weak against blaster fire.
Evident in the scene where Scorpio makes the skytroopers turn on the knights in the throne-room, and none of the knights are able to deflect the fire.
(And, although they are not as skilled in the force as Senya, they still are basically a force-using class based on the lore)
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