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dps should not have guard

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
dps should not have guard

Uvirith's Avatar


Uvirith
10.18.2017 , 04:59 AM | #11
Yeah, remove more class identity. SwToR is still a little to different from WoW. We dont want that, dont we.......
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Aulus_Claudius's Avatar


Aulus_Claudius
10.18.2017 , 05:49 AM | #12
Guard was never a part of DD spec identity, and it takes away from a tank's identity and role that they can do this with no sacrifice. I was fine with them guarding back when they had to give up DPS to do it, but now it's become a plague.

I play full tank, I will always play full tank with tank gear regardless of current balance and refuse to skank, so for me it very much infringes upon my identity in PvP when I can no longer guard switch because a bunch of DDs have given individual guards out to all the healers. Nothing tilts me more in this game than going to switch guard and some idiot DD already guarded someone and didn't bother to check that his team has a tank, and it's contributed to my almost abandoning PvP entirely.

The rest of the tank's job remains unchanged - taunt the appropriate targets on cooldown, stun and generally annoy healers so they can't do their jobs, Guardian Leap allies under attack on cooldown. However guard switch was always a peculiarity of SWTOR PvP tanking, and one which sets it apart from the likes of WoW, and it's sad to see it compromised like this. The best I can do now is request that DDs leave the guard button alone when I'm or another tank is in the area and hope they listen.
Thanks for the gearing changes in 5.1 and 5.2, BioWare - resubbed.

Equeliber's Avatar


Equeliber
10.18.2017 , 09:39 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Aulus_Claudius View Post
Snip
I totally agree with everything you said, Guard switch was one of the main things for tanks... There is not much point of guard in DPS specs anyway, most of them don't even use it correctly. And it doesn't make sense for a dps spec to have a damage transferring ability, protection of allies isn't their role.
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KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
10.18.2017 , 11:48 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Equeliber View Post
I totally agree with everything you said, Guard switch was one of the main things for tanks... There is not much point of guard in DPS specs anyway, most of them don't even use it correctly. And it doesn't make sense for a dps spec to have a damage transferring ability, protection of allies isn't their role.
I personally agree as well. Guard and guard swapping are the realm of tanks and should be. I too find having to yell at someone to drop guard before they die rather annoying. That said I do skank in pvp, because tank gear is frankly useless. Call it make up from all the time I spent playing vigi out of protest to dps getting guards.

On that note though, if the opponent team has dps guarding, it's quite useful. Focus whoever he's guarding and have one person wreck the poor stupid dps that thinks he can guard.

supertimtaf's Avatar


supertimtaf
10.19.2017 , 11:30 AM | #15
Well, guard is a very important part of gameplay when used correctly. A good dps that do good guard swap, or use it at the right moment can reverse a fight. Still, I agree that tanks should have more advantages when using guard.
Maybe make guard less effective when used by a dps ? I was thinking that maybe 20% damage reduction instead of 50% would help a lot. And maybe making tanks able to soak a little bit more damage because of it ? 60% damage absorb would be good too, no ?

As for PvE, the damage transfer don't apply so this isn't a bother. I would keep it as a dps for PvE, but just for either the 5% damage reduction or the 25% aggro drop. One of the two should go away.

(again, I don't see why removing guard would be the solution. We still have class that can off-heal pretty well. This game is about cooperation, removing every ability allowing for some team play isn't what I call "good" for cooperation.)
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Aulus_Claudius's Avatar


Aulus_Claudius
10.19.2017 , 11:45 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by supertimtaf View Post
Well, guard is a very important part of gameplay when used correctly. A good dps that do good guard swap, or use it at the right moment can reverse a fight. Still, I agree that tanks should have more advantages when using guard.
Maybe make guard less effective when used by a dps ? I was thinking that maybe 20% damage reduction instead of 50% would help a lot. And maybe making tanks able to soak a little bit more damage because of it ? 60% damage absorb would be good too, no ?

As for PvE, the damage transfer don't apply so this isn't a bother. I would keep it as a dps for PvE, but just for either the 5% damage reduction or the 25% aggro drop. One of the two should go away.

(again, I don't see why removing guard would be the solution. We still have class that can off-heal pretty well. This game is about cooperation, removing every ability allowing for some team play isn't what I call "good" for cooperation.)
The thing is that DDs having access to guard is often the exact opposite of teamplay. Either they can guard as well as a tank can, in which case why have a tank, or their guards are comparatively weak, in which case they only get in the way when a tank is present. Currently it's the latter, which as a tank I find horribly irritating - that's one of the tank's jobs, and I can't do it while the DDs are guarding half the team. It was one thing back when it was a serious trade-off for them to guard, but now that it's possible without a DPS loss I see this far too often.

As to another poster's assertion that tank gear is "useless," I have to disagree. True, the tank stats don't do nearly as much as they could or should in PvP with the lack of physical attacks for defense and the prevalence of high crit% for shield/absorb - if you say defensive stats need buffing, I agree - but they still result in a net damage reduction. My tank philosophy is simple: it's my job to reduce the group's overall DTPS first and foremost. Secondary goal is being a general nuisance to the healers. DPS is a distant third. So if gaining 1000 DPS means an additional 150 DTPS, that's not a trade I'm willing to make. It's not my job, simple as that.
Thanks for the gearing changes in 5.1 and 5.2, BioWare - resubbed.

Bladedarkman's Avatar


Bladedarkman
10.20.2017 , 07:33 AM | #17
Dont tell me how to play the game. I guard taunt and aoe taunt in pvp for the medals! That is all
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PlagaNerezza's Avatar


PlagaNerezza
10.20.2017 , 07:55 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by BillyMayesHere View Post
by removing class stances u ruined the game by letting dps have guard....

a dps has no business having a guard that is for tanks only.. fix the game you broke
Agreed. However, if your taking a pvp utility away from assassins they need to get something back. We have no raid utility and no pvp utility. Guard as a dps is a great skill for both pvp and pve.
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nyrkverse's Avatar


nyrkverse
10.21.2017 , 03:06 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by PlagaNerezza View Post
Agreed. However, if your taking a pvp utility away from assassins they need to get something back. We have no raid utility and no pvp utility. Guard as a dps is a great skill for both pvp and pve.
It just so happens that I have the perfect deal: phasewalk and pre-nerf sith executioner back for Deception, phasewalk and aoe dmg reduction for Hatred and they can take our guard away with our compliments, smiles and cookies. How about that Dear Dev in charge of Combat Balance? (there's gotta be at least one, yes? )
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cool-dude's Avatar


cool-dude
10.23.2017 , 10:00 AM | #20
Everyone who has guard in pvp, should use guard if possible.
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