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We seriously need a item rating requirement on Mastermode Flashpoint

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
We seriously need a item rating requirement on Mastermode Flashpoint

orangenee's Avatar

09.07.2017 , 04:55 PM | #11
It is skill and it is gear that's needed.

The only way to learn MM FPs is to play them and if a new player rocks up in less than adequate gear he gets spanked and everybody else gets annoyed. The newbie gets put off playing them and the other players start being wary of trying to teach them. Yes, there are guilds willing to teach players but not every guild is doing the same things all the time which leaves GF.

So a gear check would buffer out people who are just wasting their own time and/or expecting to be carried.

Maybe after a certain amount of completions the restrictions could be lifted for a given player, that may or not be difficult to implement though.
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NikSunrider's Avatar

09.07.2017 , 08:49 PM | #12
Putting a gear requirement on most flashpoints would only annoy players with alts or on new servers. I can pull my weight in any role, on most classes, underlevelled and udergeared. Publicly-visible DPS meters will just spill the prog raiding community attitudes out into flashpoints and fewer people will want to try, but some kind of skill / effeciency check is a good idea.

What kind? I don't know. At least a quarter of my SWTOR time I spend on operatives, and naturally that involves keeping 2x koltos on everyone, cleansing the tank because everyone seems to forgotten they have one of those, and doing other non-DPSy things. Metrics alone won't cut it, and I don't know what will.
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aerockyul's Avatar

09.08.2017 , 01:02 AM | #13
By all means let's continue to find ways to further reduce the amount of players in the GF pool.

Gear is a crutch and requiring it of people says more about your own play than anything else.

Now what elitists with this attitude SHOULD be asking for is a GF that counts how many times in the last ten games did the dps stand in bad circles, how many times did a tank allow a cleave/conal/moveable-AOE to hit anyone else, and how many times a healer never touched their cleanse ability. Or how many times in general you've disconnected, afk'd for long periods of time without explanation, quit abruptly, or been kicked from a group. Or how many times the player strayed from the secret shortcuts or pulled a mob with a razor thin margin for skipping exactly like Bioware intended. Or how many times the player didn't skip the bonus, just as Bioware intended. Or didn't smash their spacebar in a thousand pieces every moment the screen goes into cinematic mode. Or how many times the player didn't chastise and ostracize other players' abilities solely on gear and/level, the two things that matter the least in clearing bolstered content.

All things that contribute more to bad groups then the assumed baddie who is on his 29th alt but pulls threat from higher leveled and better geared gods of SWTOR and somehow, against all odds, might know a thing or two about the flashpoint they've completed dozens of times on multiple classes. Holy mother of the force, if that jack*** comes into my flashpoint with an average 230 item rating or he's not level 70, I will kick him immediately.
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Khaleijo's Avatar

09.08.2017 , 02:37 AM | #14
Gear never is the problem since all FPs are bolstered.
The problem is, if you don't already know a lot bout the game and trinity gameplay, there is no feedback at all whether you are doing things right or not.
Tactical/veteran FPs are on one hand too easy as one or two capable player suffices to finish any boss alone and on the other hand they don't really teach any mechanics in a way that people really learn to deal with them, for the most part they are just ignored.
There is no feedback that maybe yourdamage, healing or tanking is lacking, like dying, being overwhelmed by trash or bosses. It just doesn't matter, Kolto stations rule and mindless AoE on everything just like in solo questing nowadays, threat everywhere, it works wonderful. Tanks or Healers are mostly unnecessary and in case of tanks even more a hindrance than an advantage and their role ignored even if they are there.
But how and where players are to learn to play it then, how the group dynamic in trinity groups works differently and what to do when mindless AoE doesn't suffice.

Instead of a gear requirement that is almost impossible to scale anyway with the HC FP (except of Umbara) being open to run from level 50 on, if the player knows what he does all HC FPs, including Bloodhunt are doable without problems, there should be some sort of proving ground before you are able to queue for any role.

Scenarios for all three roles, to test if players are able to deal with voids, adds, movement and stuff while still doing what their role needs to do. That may include a DPS or heal check to some degree as something to test how well the tank holds threat or knows when to to taunt or not, how to use his def CDs.
Because in the end the enemies have to die and the group/tank survive of course.
It would be the player alone with NPCs, not some potentially toxic idiots, learning what is important and how well prepared s/he is for the level of difficulty.

No one there, that can carry you along by doing way more than his share, just you and a sort of challenge like Eternal Championship for each role.
That would teach players what is important and to be expected in general and in case they are not ready yet, shows it to them before they are berated by others.
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rantboi's Avatar

09.08.2017 , 06:54 AM | #15
yeah, proving grounds would be a much better solution than gear requirement. there's a huge amount of people who have almost full 248 but struggle to do 4k dps, healers who cast one heal every 20 seconds and tanks who just tunnel on one thing and ignore everything else going on.

Haooll's Avatar

09.08.2017 , 08:48 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by bdatt View Post
Umbara has been out like 2 weeks? I would assume it was easier to implement on one new flashpoint, and try it out for a bit, than implement across the board and risk screwing things up. If they feel the gear requirement is successful, I'd expect a broader implementation to happen. Just not in 2 weeks.
The sensible way to do it would be to have a framework (or something similar), on which to hang the details. If they went through creating it from scratch and nothing (or little) is re-usable that's madness from a programming/design point of view.

If they have used a framework system it should be relatively easy to port the details from the existing flashpoint into it.

If they haven't, then maybe next time they should develop a framework system for future use ... it'd make creating/adding new group content much easier (and therefore quicker).

But this is BW .... who knows what thought processes are used.

Kaldron_Fell's Avatar

09.09.2017 , 10:13 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Torvai View Post
Because Umbara is tuned for that. All other FP's have bolster which is more than enough. If a group fails in a HM FP it's not a gear nor a level issue.
This. If you don't know your foot from your buttocks, no amount of gear will save you. If you know what you're doing, 230s are more than enough, probably less than that.
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psandak's Avatar

09.09.2017 , 02:22 PM | #18
@No-self (or anyone who supports No-self's position),

Question: what item rating would you require for HMFPs?

Think about your answer carefully. Remember two things:

#1 Characters of level 50+ can join HMFPs. Back when level 50 was the cap, the best gear available was something like rating 156.

#2 But let's assume that you also want the level requirements raised to 70 as well. So, the gear you get from CM crates in tier 1 are 228 and 230. Considering that rating of gear is what is intended for SM Ops (even though there is a bolster their too), I find it difficult to accept that one would need gear better than what one can get from the content.

So what would be a good item rating for HMFPs?
  • 200 (the lowest rating from grade 9 crafted and what you get from playing through KOTFE)
  • 220 (the lowest grade 10 crafted; prototype/blue quality, and what one should have by the end of the single player story)
  • 224 (the highest rating from last expansion and level cap)?
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Johrun's Avatar

09.10.2017 , 01:58 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by LordTurin View Post
As others have said, it's skill not gear. They don't need to implement gear requirements, they need to implement some kind of feedback system so players can see how they are doing without opening a 3rd party program (starparse).

I wonder, because I healed BH on 234 op (no problem, only extra fun), but went to Korriban Incursion with a 244+ op and I couldn't overheal the final boss dmg for the life of me (the attack when we hang in the air, then he throws us all back).

Edit: Everyone was fully healed, then insta dropped to ca25% health, then got wiped in a few seconds. I imagine I'm supposed to do magic for that time.

RikuvonDrake's Avatar

09.11.2017 , 06:43 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Johrun View Post
I wonder, because I healed BH on 234 op (no problem, only extra fun), but went to Korriban Incursion with a 244+ op and I couldn't overheal the final boss dmg for the life of me (the attack when we hang in the air, then he throws us all back).

Edit: Everyone was fully healed, then insta dropped to ca25% health, then got wiped in a few seconds. I imagine I'm supposed to do magic for that time.
I think that is a frontal cone attack or something that the boss does, it deals significant damage the tank and perhaps everyone else that is standing in front? The tank can kite the boss for a while after that AoE damage to enable you to catch up on the group, that prevents the Ravage + AoE cone from happening until tank gets rooted or stops kiting.

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