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Guilds in Flashpoints (help me understand)


Zerileth's Avatar


Zerileth
08.17.2017 , 05:59 PM | #1
TLDR: go to paragraph 3

So I pug a lot of FPs (MM and VM) for Conquest. Across 10 or so characters so I try to get in 20 fps a day. In the evenings I'm basically just chaining them at 4, 5 or 6 an hour. I really enjoy "pugging" for the most part and most of the players are nice or interesting. I'd say that about every 5 or 6 groups you get the a-hole. Whatever.

But I've been noticing more and more I have been getting "grouped" with guild members. I gave up guilds a long time ago. I don't need the exp. Pugs (for the most part) don't bother me and many guilds feel like a second job without the pay.

But here's the thing, they're always in 3s. A tank, healer, and one dps. WHY? Seriously why is that? You can say that it's just random but it's every group. And I've had this happen maybe 15 or so times in the last months. Is it because they form the trinity and then jump in GF for that extra dps? I used to only heal so maybe I didn't see this before. AND... the tank is usually a raging a-hole. Why is it always the tank? These are the only groups I may get kicked from a FP because I'm not following their "guild etiquette."

From now on I'm checking their guild status and leaving immediately if all 3 are the same.
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NikSunrider's Avatar


NikSunrider
08.17.2017 , 06:37 PM | #2
I'll answer the easiest question first: why is the tank usually an a-hole?

Because the tank has more on his plate than any other party member. A tank has to always be in control of the battle, controlling the enemies and controlling the position of his teammates, planning ahead and covering up for mistakes (like re-mezzing something because a marauder got trigger-happy). As a tank main, even when I'm not actively being an a-hole I will be curt and to the point, because I don't have all day for everyone to pull groups of people they shouldn't, die horribly, ignore the healer trying to rez them and run back from spawn, then get stuck behind an elevator because the second DPS initiatd combat when they should not have.

Tanks are very hard to kill, but their cooldowns have limits, and some classes aren't as good with AOE threat as others; when too much trash is pulled, it becomes harder to control the fight, and tanks hate not being in control of the fight. Putting aside personal preference, when a tank loses aggro on enough mobs, other members of the team start dying, which just prolongs the flashpoint.

Along with their love of control, tanks also prefer a fast run. There is no reason why Hammer Station should take 2 hours, so they will often get frustrated and have better things to do if you can't get your sith together.

To answer your second question: by bringing their own tank and a healer, guilds can be sure that these roles will be filled by competent people who know how to play their class and won't handicap the group. I'm talking operatives who have koltophobia and use only probes and no casts, tanks who won't taunt or don't have mitigation gear, et cetera.
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LordTurin's Avatar


LordTurin
08.17.2017 , 06:38 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Zerileth View Post
TLDR: go to paragraph 3

So I pug a lot of FPs (MM and VM) for Conquest. Across 10 or so characters so I try to get in 20 fps a day. In the evenings I'm basically just chaining them at 4, 5 or 6 an hour. I really enjoy "pugging" for the most part and most of the players are nice or interesting. I'd say that about every 5 or 6 groups you get the a-hole. Whatever.

But I've been noticing more and more I have been getting "grouped" with guild members. I gave up guilds a long time ago. I don't need the exp. Pugs (for the most part) don't bother me and many guilds feel like a second job without the pay.

But here's the thing, they're always in 3s. A tank, healer, and one dps. WHY? Seriously why is that? You can say that it's just random but it's every group. And I've had this happen maybe 15 or so times in the last months. Is it because they form the trinity and then jump in GF for that extra dps? I used to only heal so maybe I didn't see this before. AND... the tank is usually a raging a-hole. Why is it always the tank? These are the only groups I may get kicked from a FP because I'm not following their "guild etiquette."

From now on I'm checking their guild status and leaving immediately if all 3 are the same.
Its not random. If it is 3 in the same group, chances are very good that they queued together and just need that 4th person (you). They almost always have a tank and a healer, because if you have those 2 roles, you have a really good chance of getting an insta-pop. Guilds will typically look for a full group just from people in their guild, but as long as they have a tank and a healer, they will usually jump over to groupfinder just to fill that last role.

No idea why the tank is an a-hole, but back when I was doing GF FP pugs (don't really do it anymore) the tank was almost always the one w/ the attitude (backed up by the fact that that role is the hardest to fill, so they can leave the group and get an insta-pop anyway, so they are more willing to be a jerk as the punishment isn't as bad as it for a dps, who may have to wait another 30 minutes for another pop).

That being said, most of the time guilds have nice people in them. If someone is acting really bad, whisper someone else in the guild, ask who an officer is, and complain. Guilds normally don't want problem people in guild, so if you complain, or enough other people complain, then the toxic person will get kicked. Of course if the toxic person is the GM/officer, then you may be out of luck.
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Zerileth's Avatar


Zerileth
08.17.2017 , 07:34 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by NikSunrider View Post
Because the tank has more on his plate than any other party member.
This isn't the type of a-hole I mean. I can work with this tank. This tank is just managing the group and dealing with the stuff you stated. No I'm talking about the idiots who start out, "Sup slaves? Hurry up my boost is running out. Spacebar Beeches!" And I'm being extremely reserved.

^ that ain't you I'm guessin.
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JediAkemi's Avatar


JediAkemi
08.17.2017 , 07:48 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Zerileth View Post
This isn't the type of a-hole I mean. I can work with this tank. This tank is just managing the group and dealing with the stuff you stated. No I'm talking about the idiots who start out, "Sup slaves? Hurry up my boost is running out. Spacebar Beeches!" And I'm being extremely reserved.

^ that ain't you I'm guessin.
Wow. People do that? What server?
I've never run into quite that level of rudeness... though one of my guild's tanks did seem to be having a mini breakdown in a half guild & half pug EV run that one time, but I digress.

If people can't behave in a group, why are they even doing group content?

Zerileth's Avatar


Zerileth
08.17.2017 , 08:42 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by JediAkemi View Post
Wow. People do that? What server?
I've never run into quite that level of rudeness... though one of my guild's tanks did seem to be having a mini breakdown in a half guild & half pug EV run that one time, but I digress.

If people can't behave in a group, why are they even doing group content?
Because they're lumped in with their guildmates and know they won't get kicked. And it's Harbinger. Sadly home to the .... never mind. If I say who the class/age is I get stomped by the "proof" seekers
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Aeneas_Falco's Avatar


Aeneas_Falco
08.17.2017 , 08:53 PM | #7
What are the queue pops like for DPS on Harbinger?

If you get stuck with an obnoxious group and its clear that one or more of the players has a personality problem from the beginning, it may be best to quit, wait 5 minutes, then queue again. Of course that depends on the time of day.

I've done that already on Ebon Hawk, though with my healer. I'll also sometimes drop if I get no response to the "hello" in the beginning. That's usually a warning that you're teamed up with a couple antisocial people.

LordTurin's Avatar


LordTurin
08.17.2017 , 09:05 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Aeneas_Falco View Post
What are the queue pops like for DPS on Harbinger?

If you get stuck with an obnoxious group and its clear that one or more of the players has a personality problem from the beginning, it may be best to quit, wait 5 minutes, then queue again. Of course that depends on the time of day.

I've done that already on Ebon Hawk, though with my healer. I'll also sometimes drop if I get no response to the "hello" in the beginning. That's usually a warning that you're teamed up with a couple antisocial people.
Or just put someone on ignore. You won't get queued with someone on your ignore list, so you can queue right away in that case.
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RikuvonDrake's Avatar


RikuvonDrake
08.18.2017 , 12:33 AM | #9
I run quite a few MM flashpoints (hammer station) for the weekly with a bunch of different chars, mostly we try to form a group in the guild but sometimes we only have 3/4 and use GF. Now from our perspective, we just want to run through the content quickly which we state in the start and ask the PUG to leave if he disagrees. However, I don't think most pugs care, they slack behind, loot every add for those 10-20 credits, not skipping adds (mostly due to inexperience + slacking behind so they don't see which way we took or stealth zap expired) while we others are fighting the boss.

Sadly I must admit we end up having to kick quite a few because their playstyle simply isn't compatible with ours, not reading instructions, now doing as they are told, not skipping cutscenes and not contributing to the group. In particular with how good Shae Vizla is as a range DPS (7k dps at 50) I feel that quite often it's an improvement over most PUGS.

I doubt anyone really has a problem with you as a person but in particular, when your way of playing doesn't work with the other three, that becomes an issue, and sadly since you are the odd one out. Feel free to just put players with this playstyle on ignore, it helps both you and us.

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orangenee's Avatar


orangenee
08.18.2017 , 05:28 AM | #10
It's always the tanks fault or the healers fault. You'll find those two are at each others throats the second something goes wrong.

The DPS only get yelled at if they pull aggro by the tanks usually or stand right in front of the boss. They have the easiest job

PUGs are usually not playing for fun, they're playing for loot and stuff and want to get done ASAP. Should they not get through stuff expediently they get very cranky.

It's also an MMO, so it attracts people with severe social issues and/or angsty teens. I get bothered all the time by morons spamming me for duels for instance, and if you decline you get abuse, you accept and win/lose, you catch abuse.

So put any idiots on ignore and carry on with the rest of your day.
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