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Stupidly Good versus Stupid Evil (Spoilers ahead)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore > Spoilers
Stupidly Good versus Stupid Evil (Spoilers ahead)

Myrmicus's Avatar

08.07.2017 , 04:51 AM | #1
As much as I like the storytelling in SWTOR, I sometime feel the Light Side and Dark Side choices represent fairly well the "Stupidly Good" and "Stupid Evil" tropes. I get that feeling from time to time, but it was the most glaring was during KOTFE :

- Mass Murdering Emperor who is known to possess a lot of people (at the same time) within your mind tells you to accept his power... What could go wrong ? But then, refusing him - out of caution, mind you - is labelled as a light side choice ? As it is, the Dark Side choice to accept come out as stupid evil : "Well yes, mister body stealer, I will totally give you access to my mind by letting your power flow through me, because I crave for power and it doesn't matter if it destroys my brain afterward. I don't have any to begin with..." Because yeah, I totally didn't anticipate him trying to take over your body when you have the Eternal Throne.

- For the Stupidly Good side, we have a lot of Bounty Hunters missions : "Your mission is to kill this one." And then : "Nah... I will get paid but won't fulfill my contract. What could go wrong for my career if I let my assassination targets if they beg for their lives ?" Or the famous classless : "Destroy this generator, rebels use its energy !" except " I won't do it, some refugees use it too... ah well, let's hinder the war effort. Prolonging a war that made those refugees come here in the first place must be the right thing to do."

Lots of LS/DS choices are fairly intelligent, but my feeling is that they are too "extreme" in the moral compass. Even when you make a choice based on pragmatism or even just common sense, a Dark Side choice will be evil in the speech itself : blow the generator ? "Buzz off maggots !" even if you wanted to say "Well, sorry but this is war and you are colateral damage." Plus, most of the time, you don't have a middle choice : be either good or bad, but not neutral. You have to kill a target ? It's either "Go hide while you can, you poor thing !" or "Die you piece of garbarge ! I'll even smack you a bit before I blow your head off !"

AdharaKyleth's Avatar

08.07.2017 , 11:00 AM | #2
I really enjoyed this, and I agree with your above sentiment.
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Foambreaker's Avatar

08.07.2017 , 11:07 AM | #3
As soon as they decided the mission of the dark side players was to "Save the Galaxy", the whole thing became stupid.

Since when did the empire care about saving the galaxy?

The dark side plot was written by someone with no comprehension of what it is to be bad, it is "fake bad".

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar

08.07.2017 , 11:52 AM | #4
So it looks like Kreia was right. Go Gray Jedi.
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darthscotty's Avatar

08.07.2017 , 12:17 PM | #5
Totally agree with this. Another good example is the Inquisitor story. If you go dark side you are little more than a drooling crazy person. If you go light side you are basically a Jedi. There is little nuance to the choices. As an inquisitor I am not interested in being a drooling crazy person nor am I wanting to be a jedi. There is a difference to being cunning and ruthless like Dooku or Sideous and being a drooling crazy person. I totally support more nuance to the light and dark choices.
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IoNonSoEVero's Avatar

08.07.2017 , 12:28 PM | #6
I agree, and I think that a lot of the choices presented in the game as LS/DS really aren't...or have more nuance than they're suggesting. Like we were discussing the Knights in another thread - if you choose to let the Knight go, he gets killed by Vaylin. If you let Lana kill him at least it's probably quicker and less painful, but that's the DS choice. I think the focus on forgiveness is misguided a lot of the time too - like in the SW story it's considered LS to forgive Quinn...why should you?

Most characters and people have shades of gray to them, and developing the idea of Light Sith/Gray or Dark Jedi is a good thing about the game.

aerockyul's Avatar

08.07.2017 , 01:14 PM | #7
My favorite are any LS choice for the Empire that will result in the person being handed over to the Empire as a prisoner. Yes, the person gets to live a little longer...through agonizing torture. Very merciful action there
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Myrmicus's Avatar

08.07.2017 , 08:55 PM | #8
There's one moral choice that is interesting, because from the Republic and the Empire point of view are totally opposite : when you find some republic soldiers who are about to turn into rakgouls (or die horribly from a disease, I think it's on Belsavis). The Lightside choice for the Republic is to let them live, where the Light Side choice for the Empire is to mercy kill them. Now that's interesting, because it clearly shows us a moral difference between the factions.

But appart from that...
The only mitigating factor can be found into dialogues surrounding the moral choice : my Sith Inquisitor, pragmatic, evil, but not a maniac murderer. A lot of my light side choices to let people live was followed by : "Don't make me regret it, or I'll find you" or "Well, you're useful" (on Makheb, when I chose to save the sith lord who followed me).
Then again, not all the choices are handed this way.

Master-Nala's Avatar

08.08.2017 , 11:54 AM | #9
I agree that some choices in the game don't really make a whole bunch of sense, but I do think there is something that the developers intended that didn't come to pass.

Bioware seems to want people to just make choices based on their conception of their character and let the consequences be damned. So a Jedi might kill a foe knowing the stain it puts on their soul (DS Points), but looking to atone in other ways.

An example from the movies was when Yoda sent Obi-Wan to go kill Anakin. Now Obi-Wan wimped out at the end, but when Anakin was limbless and helpless, Obi-Wan could have done the galaxy (if not the story) a big favor by putting him out of his misery.

I have never had a DS or LS character who has never had an opposite side point and I think that's intentional.
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light_senshi's Avatar

08.08.2017 , 06:16 PM | #10
I agree. It turned into Lawful Stupid verses Chaotic Dumbsh*t.