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How to save Galactic Starfighter from the steaming hot pile of garbage it is now.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
How to save Galactic Starfighter from the steaming hot pile of garbage it is now.

Greezt's Avatar


Greezt
08.16.2017 , 05:04 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by SeCKSEgai View Post
Now someone's jumping to conclusions - he never stated he intentionally threw matches. Sure not focusing on objectives doesn't help, but when there are only two modes and one is literally flying around and shooting at others he's not throwing matches, as opposed to someone committing suicide repeatedly. In a sat match teams can be so one-sided that the opposing ships can never make it to the sats anyway. Regardless, flying around and attempting to shoot stuff is still participation.
Quote: Originally Posted by Belthorian View Post
GSF is so bad and not fun to play, I will enter a match and just fly around and shoot at random things. I do not bother with trying to win, play the objectives, nothing. I am only there for the daily rewards and CXP points to level my toons. If it were actually fun to play I would invest serious time into learning the game.
Let's read together. He never said he's shooting at people, only "random things" (which well could be rocks or shiny glowing purple and blue orbs). He specifically said he will not bother with trying to win or playing objectives. Now, you can defend him, but you're wrong. He is throwing matches. Taking the spot of a contributer (or even someone trying to contribute) and doing none of that is throwing a match.

I'm sure you'll enjoy having him on your team when facing the dreaded premades though.

caederon's Avatar


caederon
08.16.2017 , 06:02 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by SeCKSEgai View Post
Sometimes our players can be a tad too passionate. And while those people tend to be the ones that only enjoy just the GSF aspect of swtor, they're very few in number. When a 3.0 bug persists in 5.0, you really know just how far down the list the game mode is. At least GSF is more popular than Space Missions.
I believe my level of passion is perfectly calibrated for the moment at hand. Someone who admittedly never played GSF or even really thought about it came in here, assumed it was 'bad' (because people who complain on the internet are never wrong) and then talked about murdering my daughter or something, which gives me a pretty good indication my initial response was properly targeted. My thoughts were not expressly reserved for him, as that sentiment has been prevalent enough elsewhere as evidenced by the thread title.

Popularity is not an indicator of quality. If it was, then we could safely declare Candy Crush Saga with its 93 million users the best game of all time, and start some threads about how GSF needs more candy, and definitely requires more crushing. And a saga.

- Despon

SeCKSEgai's Avatar


SeCKSEgai
08.16.2017 , 07:11 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Greezt View Post
Let's read together. He never said he's shooting at people, only "random things" (which well could be rocks or shiny glowing purple and blue orbs). He specifically said he will not bother with trying to win or playing objectives. Now, you can defend him, but you're wrong. He is throwing matches. Taking the spot of a contributer (or even someone trying to contribute) and doing none of that is throwing a match.

I'm sure you'll enjoy having him on your team when facing the dreaded premades though.
Isn't that a little negative, to automatically assume that shooting random things aren't ships or mines? I mean flying around and shooting at an asteroid wasn't the first image that came to mind and there isn't a lot else to shoot at given how empty space is. If he's shooting at things out of range that's no different than a new pilot. If we classify him as throwing matches because he's flying around shooting aimlessly - that would include virtually every new pilot. I've seen plenty of people try that were completely ineffective.

As for "dreaded pre-mades", I've already been up against and with drak since coming back. Both matches were boring, either there was no challenge and pursuing active targets would be cruel given their circumstance or my team was utterly obliterated having no chance at all. Sure, I could swap to a gunship and net some kills but if your team isn't skilled enough you end up just adding losses to your record.

Frankly I would say the lop-sided matches do far more damage than someone barely putting effort - people are a lot more likely to try when they see opportunity to win.

Quote: Originally Posted by caederon View Post
I believe my level of passion is perfectly calibrated for the moment at hand. Someone who admittedly never played GSF or even really thought about it came in here, assumed it was 'bad' (because people who complain on the internet are never wrong) and then talked about murdering my daughter or something, which gives me a pretty good indication my initial response was properly targeted. My thoughts were not expressly reserved for him, as that sentiment has been prevalent enough elsewhere as evidenced by the thread title.

Popularity is not an indicator of quality. If it was, then we could safely declare Candy Crush Saga with its 93 million users the best game of all time, and start some threads about how GSF needs more candy, and definitely requires more crushing. And a saga.

- Despon
He was stating that as a swtor player he had even forgotten the mode existed - a harmless statement and actual feedback that could be used to help give GSF more visibility to the player base and potentially net new pilots.

Your response was taken as hostile, as if he had murdered your daughter. A poor analogy but he simply was stating your response was really hostile when his initial comment was not even a personal attack directed at you.

Candy Crush makes money and gets support. GSF still can't get a bug fixed from 3.0 when its now 5.3. We may find GSF far more enjoyable but that doesn't make Candy Crush less successful. Appealing to the masses isn't everything, but appealing to a small niche in a declining population doesn't stand for much either.
Réiyn - Maryss - Rölánd - Monéy - Retrocide - Reiyñ

Rélentless - Reíyn - Rölañd - Tàtiana

caederon's Avatar


caederon
08.16.2017 , 08:16 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by SeCKSEgai View Post
Appealing to the masses isn't everything, but appealing to a small niche in a declining population doesn't stand for much either.
Are you seriously in this thread playing devil's advocate to defend an OP who deliberately ignores the point of the game out of spite because he wants GSF to be a space simulator and not the game it is? Do you want to know what an even more niche population is? Dudes with flightsticks.

In a sensible world, GSF would be a standalone game and not shoved into a corner of an MMORPG. The world is anything but sensible, so we have what we have, which is a game that at its core is well conceived. Some people expected or wanted a different sort of thing from 'space combat in SWTOR,' but some people liked and continue to like the thing that exists. Some people are indifferent and don't care about space combat games, because they are here to play an MMORPG. That group is by far the largest.

GSF is not going to become a space simulator, and it's not going to become Battlefront's shallow-but-pretty space combat thing either. It is going to remain the sort of game that it is, and the best possible outcome is that it fulfills that concept. Right now, the people who may have an interest in GSF have a choice: learn to play the game as it is, or don't. The former produces better results and yields more 'fun' for the sort of people who want to play the game that GSF is. Those that don't find it 'fun' ought to spend their time playing something that they like.

- Despon

Greezt's Avatar


Greezt
08.16.2017 , 09:14 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by SeCKSEgai View Post
Isn't that a little negative, to automatically assume that shooting random things aren't ships or mines? I mean flying around and shooting at an asteroid wasn't the first image that came to mind and there isn't a lot else to shoot at given how empty space is. If he's shooting at things out of range that's no different than a new pilot. If we classify him as throwing matches because he's flying around shooting aimlessly - that would include virtually every new pilot. I've seen plenty of people try that were completely ineffective.

As for "dreaded pre-mades", I've already been up against and with drak since coming back. Both matches were boring, either there was no challenge and pursuing active targets would be cruel given their circumstance or my team was utterly obliterated having no chance at all. Sure, I could swap to a gunship and net some kills but if your team isn't skilled enough you end up just adding losses to your record.

Frankly I would say the lopsided matches do far more damage than someone barely putting effort - people are a lot more likely to try when they see opportunity to win.
No. Are we both talking about the same player? The one who called the game a "steaming hot pile of garbage"? I think it's pretty justified to assume he doesn't care about shooting at actual targets.

He's different from a new player, because a new player actually tries. He doesn't. He states as much himself, I don't know why you refuse to acknowledge it. That is throwing matches. A new player may be incompetent, but they're not " throwing" (i.e losing on purpose) anything. The comparison is ridiculous.

It seems like it doesn't matter to you, but I'd rather have players who actually try on my team regardless of skill. When I look at a scoreboard after a match and see someone who did horribly, but I saw them ask questions during the match, I'm ok with that. When I see someone circling around themselves firing RFL, I'm not.

Also, you're dead wrong about players not putting effort. On SL, impside used to die every time a certain individual was queued. All they did was drift in space, die by enemy (or rock, if no enemy got the in minute or so) and respawn. I've never seen queues die as fast to premades.

SeCKSEgai's Avatar


SeCKSEgai
08.17.2017 , 12:37 AM | #26
@Despon - I'm really not sure how to interpret the dudes with flightsticks comments. As far as a stand alone game, I still think x-wing, tie fighter and x-wing vs tie fighter were better, but they were definitely a basis for gsf, the energy management system being a shining example.

Don't get me wrong, I think describing GSF as a "steaming hot pile of garbage" is excessive, but it generally takes some interest for someone to bother posting at all. When I was away I would check on the gsf forums from time to time and the majority of threads I saw were people hoping for changes of one sort or another.

@Greezt - Given how passionate I used to be before my departure, it's a little silly to claim that I don't care. The difference now is that I'm not so emotionally attached and am looking at it from more of an outsider perspective with insider information.

When I left, I lost count of how many times I would see a player intentionally throw matches as they were clearly disgusted and upset. Since I've been back, I have not seen that once. That's not to say that I haven't seen people suicide to avoid someone getting a kill credit, but they were essentially dead and the outcome was the same.

I think you're misjudging my interpretation of a new player - as from what I've seen try as they might they're almost exclusively cannon fodder and doing very little to contribute despite their best efforts. I see nothing wrong in that, as its hardly their fault they're ineffective, the learning curve is crazy. When you see an entire team barely making it out of spawn and three sats owned by the opposing team it's pretty clear that the losing side is ineffective and essentially helpless.

As for the premades, while I really don't enjoy the one-sided matches those groups are still bodies in the queue. Tonight I spent time on the strong side knowing full well the other side was struggling hard. Luckily by the time I had switched back that side finally got a few more capable pilots and things were getting competitive again.

I could have joined the weak side at any time to try and help. 4.0, that's what I used to do and it lead to a sharp decline in my win rate and a lot of frustration. Even though I know I'm a capable pilot, I can't fight 6-8 people at the same time.

Instead, I simply did my dailies and while none of the matches were all that fun, I wasn't irritated either.

All in all, my point being is that sometimes you have to be more willing to deal with "undesirable players or factors" when there are so few people to sustain the queue.

Lastly, pilots' behaviors and decisions can change dramatically depending on how competitive a match is. If a match is close, I will do my best to facilitate the win. If I'm certain my side will win I generally let up to ease the suffering for the other side as I'm well aware of what its like to be in their shoes. And, if I know that my team has no chance of winning, I'm simply not able to put in a huge effort.

When I was new, no matter how hard I tried I was not truly contributing despite the effort. My performance then was hardly different than that of someone flying around and shooting at random things.
Réiyn - Maryss - Rölánd - Monéy - Retrocide - Reiyñ

Rélentless - Reíyn - Rölañd - Tàtiana

Greezt's Avatar


Greezt
08.17.2017 , 05:35 AM | #27
You compared a player who openly admits to not caring about the game with players who don't know how to play. That reads to me as if you don't care which type of player is on your team.

All the talk about learning curve, opposition, team stacking and such is irrelevant to this post. You can talk about it in the "Friction Points" thread, but this thread is about a person who is throwing a tantrum because the game isn't what he wants. What I came here to say is that he does not have valid points (which you said he does). He's not trying to improve, he's not interested in it. He wants a different game than what there is, and this has nothing to do with premades, balance, ships or whatnot.

So yeah, I get you're frustrated by the fact that bugs persist, that gunships and bombers are dominant, that strikes are weak. All these do not give this player any justification to be so rude (both on this thread and ingame). What he says and does are not defendable.

caederon's Avatar


caederon
08.17.2017 , 07:46 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by SeCKSEgai View Post
@Despon - I'm really not sure how to interpret the dudes with flightsticks comments.
Well, let's refer back to the OP:

Quote: Originally Posted by Belthorian View Post
I know you are going to have some crybabies out there who say whaaa whaaa whaaa it is not fair, I do not have a Stick/HOTAS combo. Well Boo Freaking Hoo. Casual gamers are not who you should be marketing to, they get bored easily and move on to the next shiny toy that comes out. X-Wing VS Tie Fighter was a huge success, it had a huge community that played it for YEARS. If GSF was revamped into a proper sim it would attract players.
The whole point of his screed was that he wanted GSF to be a simulator, and wanted to use his flightstick (technically, his flightstick AND throttle) to play. He very clearly espouses the idea that it is inconsequential whether 'crybabies' do not have or want to purchase a flightstick HOTAS or full pod-shaped cockpit, probably, to play GSF. This stick-o-philia is not an uncommon strain of bacterial whine infecting the forum these days. People wishing for GSF to be some other kind of game are not going to get that. The best you can hope for is that the game which currently exists fulfills its potential. If you do not like tactical arcade space shooters, you will not like GSF.

Quote: Originally Posted by SeCKSEgai View Post
As far as a stand alone game, I still think x-wing, tie fighter and x-wing vs tie fighter were better, but they were definitely a basis for gsf, the energy management system being a shining example.
There are some similar game mechanics, but they are distinctly different game types. GSF is an e-sport with some of the play mechanics from previous generations of space game. X-Wing Alliance was the only game out of that series that I played (alongside many Wing Commander, Privateer, and other less name-brand space games) and that sort of game had scripted missions more akin to a military flight sim.

GSF is a sporting event held in a space arena. The game most similar to GSF is Star Conflict. If you set aside all the grind and actual p2w junk in that game and look just at the game modes and ship mechanics, it is a pretty good picture of what GSF would look like if it was developed into a standalone game... though some of what SC offers would be applicable even to the game-within-a-game version.

Quote: Originally Posted by SeCKSEgai View Post
When I was away I would check on the gsf forums from time to time and the majority of threads I saw were people hoping for changes of one sort or another.
Most of the non-complaint GSF conversation has moved to the GSF Discord, where there are usually 60+ people active at any given moment who aren't trying to turn GSF into Falcon 4.0.

I don't have a problem with people posting here asking for changes. I do have a problem with the way the OP's argument is presented (along with a number of other recent threads of a similar ilk) and will argue against proposals that try to change GSF to another genre of game or gut out half of its content.

- Despon

SeCKSEgai's Avatar


SeCKSEgai
08.17.2017 , 08:07 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by SeCKSEgai View Post

All in all, my point being is that sometimes you have to be more willing to deal with "undesirable players or factors" when there are so few people to sustain the queue.

When I was new, no matter how hard I tried I was not truly contributing despite the effort. My performance then was hardly different than that of someone flying around and shooting at random things.
You misunderstand me. Where you think I'm trying to defend unsportsmanlike behavior I'm trying to explain basically that beggars can't be choosers.

If I could magically have my way, I would be able to enjoy a close and competitive match at any time of the day. But the reality is if I don't queue during limited windows I'm likely not to see a match at all.

Most people who have a few unpleasant experiences simply write off the mode as lame and say nothing at all. The OP on the other hand cared enough at least to bother posting. Sure, it was exceedingly negative - but where you're just seeing a jerk, I was seeing someone who could become a regular pilot with a gentle nudge in the right direction.

I know that I felt a lot of the same when I started GSF. I think too many of us forget our own humble beginnings. Just last night I was talking with a gsf regular that used to be a lot more negative -- but has since integrated within the community and become a very capable pilot.

And lastly, I never stated I would prefer one over the other - to put it bluntly dead weight is dead weight regardless of intention. Someone flying around aimlessly or someone who has yet to learn the dynamics of GSF - the intentions may be different but the performance (or lack thereof) is essentially the same. It should be apparent that I like the idea of new pilots if I'm able to see the potential in a disgruntled one.
Réiyn - Maryss - Rölánd - Monéy - Retrocide - Reiyñ

Rélentless - Reíyn - Rölañd - Tàtiana

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
08.17.2017 , 08:19 AM | #30
Roland, it is not necessary for us to tolerate toxicity simply to maintain a queue size. The game is hardly so desperate for pilots that we need to just accept griefing. Call outs are not allowed on the forums, but if someone makes a thread about how they deliberately sabotage games, I think it's fair game to shame that type of behavior, and use the available mechanisms in game to report the behavior of an individual person.
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