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Nerf Guard!


krosswong's Avatar


krosswong
01.03.2018 , 04:17 PM | #131
Quote: Originally Posted by Foambreaker View Post
Guard was given to DPS builds of the tank classes in an update, I believe it was with the no hybrid trees.

Got Phasewalk? Air Strike?
So what you're saying is a dps guarded healer is giving you problems? Maybe pvp isn't for you.
The Guildkiller Legacy

Harbinger's #1 pub side trash.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
01.03.2018 , 04:18 PM | #132
Quote: Originally Posted by Foambreaker View Post
Guard was given to DPS builds of the tank classes in an update, I believe it was with the no hybrid trees.

Got Phasewalk? Air Strike?
It was with 5.0.
Prior to that guard went with stance.
I'm certain of this because I started maining vigi in PvP out of protest to this change.
The trees becoming disciplines was before.

Rafiknoll's Avatar


Rafiknoll
01.03.2018 , 04:18 PM | #133
Quote: Originally Posted by Foambreaker View Post
Skilled players do not need to defend advantages, only bads...
Would you kindly at least make an attempt to, like Mannok (who shares your opinion), be logical?
Maybe I should say "Skilled players do not need to complain about enemy advantages, as they can just work through it with their skill, only bads... "

I am a tank, and I guard people. These people aren't as invincible as some seem to claim. When I see other tanks guarding people, I don't outright give up on the chance to get enemies killed.

[Warning, long story. Skip if you don't like PVP stories ]
In fact, I personally managed to solo a Mara who was guarded by a PT tank with my mere, stealthed out and came back to get the tank to 3% before their healer arrived, all with non-skank tank. I will admit they were not THAT great, but they didn't totally suck and I still was supposed to deal only half damage to the mara while he + the pt damage only me. So how did I do that? I pushed the PT down the edge (it was novare east side, I took the fight to the cliff for that sole purpose), and I gain some seconds with guard out of range. The PT eventually makes it back, and I exploited his guard to damage him with the mara. At some point the PT suddenly ran away for supposedly no reason, while the mara started running toward the medpack. Shrouded against the obvious-to-me pull which indeed happened 2s later, leaving the pt uselessly in 30m range, and rushed toward the mara immediatly to make the pt out of jumping range, running slowly, caught up with the mara, took the medpack, while the pt was back the mara was already low enough for me not to care about the guarrd and kill him, stealth, cc pt so he cant regen, regen behind a wall (not fully, didn't want the pt to start the regen), and got back to the fight, only retreating when their damn healer arrived.

Why did I tell all that? Because the only reason I managed to kill the mara was the 2 uptimes that I got with the PT far away. I got both for a combination of their mistakes and my wits, and this is what "strategy" is about. You don't get that kind of strategy when fighting only DPSes, or a DPS and a healer, you get number contests. Removing tanks will just remove the thinking from PVP, and while some people hate thinking, some play only due to those aspects. We are not protecting our advantage, we are protecting the tank role. A role among the 3 roles in this game which should have its rightful place in all aspects of the game, PVP included, like it or not.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
01.03.2018 , 04:20 PM | #134
Quote: Originally Posted by krosswong View Post
So what you're saying is a dps guarded healer is giving you problems? Maybe pvp isn't for you.
Lol I've been telling them since July to go kill the squishy idiot who tries to guard as a dps spec of a tank capable class. They die or or remove the guard. But no apparently that is too much strategizing for them.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
01.03.2018 , 04:25 PM | #135
Quote: Originally Posted by Rafiknoll View Post
I am a tank, and I guard people. These people aren't as invincible as some seem to claim. When I see other tanks guarding people, I don't outright give up on the chance to get enemies killed.

We are not protecting our advantage, we are protecting the tank role. A role among the 3 roles in this game which should have its rightful place in all aspects of the game, PVP included, like it or not.
I've been trying to get this point across on this thread since July. They're just not listening or don't care.

Rafiknoll's Avatar


Rafiknoll
01.03.2018 , 04:25 PM | #136
Quote: Originally Posted by Mannok View Post
II think the thousand of players in Arena fights experiencing majority of matches ending in ties shred any notion of this being a L2P issue. ^
Are we discussing the same PVP here everyone? Because I could have sworn you said most arena matches end with ties.
My personal experience is 5 out of 100+ reg arenas were ties and 4 out of around 70 ranked, excluding acid stealth trolls, that is (though insufficient-DPS ties do tend to happen more than once when they do happen, that is true).

We are discussing SWTOR, right? Ground PVP of SWTOR?

Foambreaker's Avatar


Foambreaker
01.03.2018 , 04:27 PM | #137
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
Lol I've been telling them since July to go kill the squishy idiot who tries to guard as a dps spec of a tank capable class. They die or or remove the guard. But no apparently that is too much strategizing for them.
Both you and the person you quoted maybe need to review your PvP lessons yourself. That DPS won't be taking damage much different because PvP damage is not mitigated in the same way.

So your smug implication that the DPS will drop like a rock is in fact not real. Now you understand why tanks stats are not really used in PvP.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
01.03.2018 , 04:32 PM | #138
Quote: Originally Posted by Foambreaker View Post
Both you and the person you quoted maybe need to review your PvP lessons yourself. That DPS won't be taking damage much different because PvP damage is not mitigated in the same way.

So your smug implication that the DPS will drop like a rock is in fact not real. Now you understand why tanks stats are not really used in PvP.
Whoever does the guarding takes 150% damage. Which is, if anything, mitigated less in PvP than in pve. I spent a long time dpsing, with focus I have helped kill stupid dps like I decribe through guard damage alone.

Now who needs to review their PvP lessons?

krosswong's Avatar


krosswong
01.03.2018 , 04:34 PM | #139
Quote: Originally Posted by Foambreaker View Post
Both you and the person you quoted maybe need to review your PvP lessons yourself. That DPS won't be taking damage much different because PvP damage is not mitigated in the same way.

So your smug implication that the DPS will drop like a rock is in fact not real. Now you understand why tanks stats are not really used in PvP.
Wait, are you really saying all the skank tanks in pvp, that all these thousands of people are complaining about, are wasting their time because they'd be able to do the same type of guarding if they were dps spec? that's. literally. laughable.

you've heard it here guys, skank tanking is dead. /thread.
The Guildkiller Legacy

Harbinger's #1 pub side trash.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
01.03.2018 , 04:42 PM | #140
Quote: Originally Posted by Mannok View Post
I think Burst dmg should be lowered by the same amount as Guard to prevent these things from happening as often. This should be part of rebalancing if Guard was "nerfed" or it makes no sense tbh

A Tool could be a progressive taunt similar to Force Crush that ends at 90% over a short period (values could be changed for pve) An ability that healed Guarded target by 50% Health and an ability completely prevented dmg for 4 secs as well. Crazy dmg boost to a certain attack, when guard had prevented x dmg. But hey that just me wouldn't mind a swtor 2.0'ish
I don't see them restructuring the entire game at this point.

Honestly despite my screaming for it everywhere for over a year now, I don't see them making tank gear useful in PvP. Much less restructuring every tank ability just for PvP.

So we're stuck with things thst are simple number changes.