Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Mastery or Power for massive damage in WZ.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Mastery or Power for massive damage in WZ.

DavidAtkinson's Avatar


DavidAtkinson
07.12.2017 , 09:24 AM | #1
I know this has been beaten to death, but the more you read about it, the more confused you get because no one is able to give a straight answer.

Some say go power because...... while others say, no, go Mastery now because.....


So which one is better ? I Play a fury Marauder level 70 on TRE and I made some tests. I ran with 14 power augments and then I ran with 14 mastery augments.

I really cannot tell which one is better. While going fully power augmented, I noticed that I am better 1v1 because my critical hits were out of control, but overall at the end of the match my DPS numbers weren't so...good. I never hit 2 mil with matery augments.

While playing power I noticed that hitting 2 million is quite easyi.

While playing mastery I felt that I lacking in burst ? I had like 8770 mastery and 4100 power. So I need help with this.

Which one do you think it's the way to go in 5.0.

Some ranked players said that the time of power augments is over in 5.0 and that mastery is the new stat which will make good damage.

thoughts ?

Storm-Cutter's Avatar


Storm-Cutter
07.12.2017 , 09:46 AM | #2
Personally, DPS is more about uptime, positioning, and getting in several dozens of perfect rotations than the makeup of one's gear stats.

If the enemy focus you and interrupt your channels, LoS you, kill you, debuff you, and don't group up for your AoEs your overall DPS will be a lot lower. - If you get a 'perfect' game where you're left alone to freecast on a big bunch of enemy players who don't shut you down, let us know.

You'll only really tell on long parses on dummies- but the downside is that dummies don't fight back or run away. You could try DPS-ing with a friend in a duel, so long as they mirror your DPS with heals and check the parses, but even then it doesn't reflect the chaos of a PVP match.
-Storm Cutter.
Like my comment? Refer me and also give a homeless Bantha a new start in life. Just click here.
Cool lightsabre art: ****.**================

Wimbleton's Avatar


Wimbleton
07.12.2017 , 10:23 AM | #3
As long as you don't use endurance or defensive stats, get 45% crit and whatever your recommended alacrity is, the power/mastery split thereafter will make almost no difference. Unlike what whiners post all day erraday, its much less about gear and much more about playmanship.

kissingaiur's Avatar


kissingaiur
07.12.2017 , 10:36 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by DavidAtkinson View Post
I know this has been beaten to death, but the more you read about it, the more confused you get because no one is able to give a straight answer.

Some say go power because...... while others say, no, go Mastery now because.....


So which one is better ? I Play a fury Marauder level 70 on TRE and I made some tests. I ran with 14 power augments and then I ran with 14 mastery augments.

I really cannot tell which one is better. While going fully power augmented, I noticed that I am better 1v1 because my critical hits were out of control, but overall at the end of the match my DPS numbers weren't so...good. I never hit 2 mil with matery augments.

While playing power I noticed that hitting 2 million is quite easyi.

While playing mastery I felt that I lacking in burst ? I had like 8770 mastery and 4100 power. So I need help with this.

Which one do you think it's the way to go in 5.0.

Some ranked players said that the time of power augments is over in 5.0 and that mastery is the new stat which will make good damage.

thoughts ?
When it comes to DPS Mastery and Power both provide almost the same amount of DPS. Mastery provides (according to Bant) slightly more sustain; by slight i mean like .05%. If that is something you care about, go Mastery.

The other argument for running one verse another is the idea of how important Crit is in PvP. A good timed Crit can kill players, that's why running Mastery might be more beneficial than stacking raw damage of Power because Mastery also gives you Crit rating as well as damage.

I would personally recommend running Mastery for it's slight benefits but overall the difference is so small that it kinda doesn't matter unless you're a tryhard.
Hothothothothothotho
"I need you all to know that Iíve transcended ranked pvp by reading about it on the forums"
5.6 PvP Operative Healing / twitch.tv/kissingaiur

sumquy's Avatar


sumquy
07.12.2017 , 11:40 AM | #5
neither. most of your augments should be crit in order to get it above 40% with the rest alacrity and maybe a couple power or mastery. the difference between power and mastery is so small, you would need a huge sample size to tell any difference in game. crit is where your burst comes from, so the higher you can push it the better. however, once you get above ~45%, the diminishing returns become harsh enough that other stats become more effective compared to another point of crit.

honestly, though, it just doesn't matter that much. if you want to push it to the absolute max, you can drop accuracy out and fine tune the alacrity to dial it in perfectly, but you are still only going to see a very small improvement vs. someone in bone stock gear and whatever augs were cheapest. the key to doing well in wz is knowing your class and rotation and positioning yourself correctly. beyond that, having a good knowledge of other classes defensive cooldowns so you don't waste your burst at the wrong time is very helpful.
...how i learned to love the dot and other short stories.

kissingaiur's Avatar


kissingaiur
07.12.2017 , 12:30 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by sumquy View Post
neither. most of your augments should be crit in order to get it above 40% with the rest alacrity and maybe a couple power or mastery. the difference between power and mastery is so small, you would need a huge sample size to tell any difference in game. crit is where your burst comes from, so the higher you can push it the better. however, once you get above ~45%, the diminishing returns become harsh enough that other stats become more effective compared to another point of crit.

honestly, though, it just doesn't matter that much. if you want to push it to the absolute max, you can drop accuracy out and fine tune the alacrity to dial it in perfectly, but you are still only going to see a very small improvement vs. someone in bone stock gear and whatever augs were cheapest. the key to doing well in wz is knowing your class and rotation and positioning yourself correctly. beyond that, having a good knowledge of other classes defensive cooldowns so you don't waste your burst at the wrong time is very helpful.
I think stacking Alacrity non a non-healer is probably one of the worst things you can do in PvP. Exceptions to this is classes such as Carnage Mara which needs it for it's burst window. Alacrity in general when it comes to DPS is one of the confusing stats to translate into PvP because of it's DPS impact relies on up-time (doing damage in the gained GCD strings you set up). In PvE optimized stats for example, you see a lot of the DPS classes running high Alacrity but that is because their up-time on their abilities is close to 100% (they use all their gained GCD's effectively which impacts their DPS output). In PvP you will never get 100% (maybe 60% on a good day) up-time on your damaging abilities so therefore effectiveness of Alacrity as a means to up your sustain is pretty much meh. You might as well stack into raw damage at that point. Bad ability "up-time" can be caused by things such as sticking to melee range, push-backs, interrupts, target LoSing or being CC all stack up to reducing how much potential DPS you can gain from the stat. I would argue for DPS to only have enough Alacrity to smooth out your rotation (or stack it for situations such as Carnage Ferocity windows). A more reliable source for DPS is stacking Mastery because according to people like Bant it is the next large increase to your DPS over Alacrity.

Food for thought.
Hothothothothothotho
"I need you all to know that Iíve transcended ranked pvp by reading about it on the forums"
5.6 PvP Operative Healing / twitch.tv/kissingaiur

teclado's Avatar


teclado
07.12.2017 , 12:32 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by DavidAtkinson View Post
So which one is better ? I Play a fury Marauder level 70 on TRE and I made some tests. I ran with 14 power augments and then I ran with 14 mastery augments.
Neither of those is the correct answer, IMO. You don't want full power or full mastery. As a Fury Mara, you'll want some accuracy (around 105%, possibly more), some crit (I go with around 40-41%), some alacrity (I go with around 9-10%). The Mastery / Power augs are filler after you get to the aforementioned stats. Of course I'm sitting at mostly 242, some 236 - everything will go up as you get 248.

Alacrity will improve your sustained dps if you can handle higher APM. In situations where you are constantly swapping targets, getting out of melee range, are CC'd, alacrity will do more harm than good. So it's definitely situational. The ~10% number is what seems to work well for me. As I get more 248, I may push that even higher. Time will tell.

My opinions have changed slowly over time. I used to advocate zero alacrity and zero accuracy, but that was back in 4.x with lower stat budgets. I don't think the corner on the curve of Crit diminishing returns has changed much (if at all) since then, so it can make sense to put more points elsewhere.
SS
Malovo - Marauder

sumquy's Avatar


sumquy
07.12.2017 , 01:16 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by kissingaiur View Post
I think stacking Alacrity non a non-healer is probably one of the worst things you can do in PvP. Exceptions to this is classes such as Carnage Mara which needs it for it's burst window. Alacrity in general when it comes to DPS is one of the confusing stats to translate into PvP because of it's DPS impact relies on up-time (doing damage in the gained GCD strings you set up). In PvE optimized stats for example, you see a lot of the DPS classes running high Alacrity but that is because their up-time on their abilities is close to 100% (they use all their gained GCD's effectively which impacts their DPS output). In PvP you will never get 100% (maybe 60% on a good day) up-time on your damaging abilities so therefore effectiveness of Alacrity as a means to up your sustain is pretty much meh. You might as well stack into raw damage at that point. Bad ability "up-time" can be caused by things such as sticking to melee range, push-backs, interrupts, target LoSing or being CC all stack up to reducing how much potential DPS you can gain from the stat. I would argue for DPS to only have enough Alacrity to smooth out your rotation (or stack it for situations such as Carnage Ferocity windows). A more reliable source for DPS is stacking Mastery because according to people like Bant it is the next large increase to your DPS over Alacrity.

Food for thought.
i would have to disagree. consider that with 10% alacrity, every 15 seconds is an extra global. while i would agree that the effects are more apparent in a long duration pve fight, even a 1v1 duel is longer than 15 seconds and in a close fight even one more attack can make the difference between win or lose. where do you see bant say that mastery is more valuable than alacrity? at what value? bant was my guildie and raid leader for a long time and i remember him being in love with alacrity above all, so i would be interested in seeing if he said differently on the forums, but to be fair, he did not do any pvp, only pve.
...how i learned to love the dot and other short stories.

snave's Avatar


snave
07.12.2017 , 01:33 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by sumquy View Post
i would have to disagree. consider that with 10% alacrity, every 15 seconds is an extra global. while i would agree that the effects are more apparent in a long duration pve fight, even a 1v1 duel is longer than 15 seconds and in a close fight even one more attack can make the difference between win or lose. where do you see bant say that mastery is more valuable than alacrity? at what value? bant was my guildie and raid leader for a long time and i remember him being in love with alacrity above all, so i would be interested in seeing if he said differently on the forums, but to be fair, he did not do any pvp, only pve.
After testing high alac vs high bonus damage (via mastery) the DPS output was virtually identical. Clever_Trevor, the person who took over Bant's work suggested a high alac build to me and it works pretty well. As always I'd recommend you try it out before regurgitating AlAc iS a DeAd StAt.

Trevor was meant to be working on a more thorough breakdown for me with the combat logs I sent him but iirc he said he was busy with IRL for a while so I'm still waiting for the final breakdown.

kissingaiur's Avatar


kissingaiur
07.12.2017 , 01:39 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by sumquy View Post
i would have to disagree. consider that with 10% alacrity, every 15 seconds is an extra global. while i would agree that the effects are more apparent in a long duration pve fight, even a 1v1 duel is longer than 15 seconds and in a close fight even one more attack can make the difference between win or lose. where do you see bant say that mastery is more valuable than alacrity? at what value? bant was my guildie and raid leader for a long time and i remember him being in love with alacrity above all, so i would be interested in seeing if he said differently on the forums, but to be fair, he did not do any pvp, only pve.
The only stat that doesn't translate well into PvP from PvE is Alacrity because of how uniquely it works. What is the likely-hood that you are going to string 7 GCDs together to actually make a new GCD in PvP? With all the CC, roots, stuns, push-backs, teleports, LoS and sticking to melee range, the likely-hood that you are even using Alacrity to it's full effect to be BETTER than Mastery in my opinion is probably poor.

I didn't say Alacrity is bad, I just personally don't feel it's that great for DPS upkeep in PvP.
Hothothothothothotho
"I need you all to know that Iíve transcended ranked pvp by reading about it on the forums"
5.6 PvP Operative Healing / twitch.tv/kissingaiur