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Why is F4 better for turning?


Verain's Avatar


Verain
07.11.2017 , 04:00 PM | #1
Some time ago, I believe Neutrinos tested and found F4 ("balanced power settings") makes tighter turns than the other power settings.

Previous to that, we expected that F1 (weapons emphasized) and F2 (shields emphasized) would deliver the tightest turns, F3 (engines emphasized) would deliver the weakest turns, and F4 would be in between the two extremes. We expected this based on the fact that F3 makes you go faster than F4, which in turn makes you go faster than F1 and F2.

But does anyone know WHY that is? Also, how many ship types have we tested with? I think he tested with a few component combinations, but not sure about ship types.

It occurs to me that there's a lot of unanswered stuff in here.


Eh, anyway.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

iDahj's Avatar


iDahj
07.11.2017 , 06:41 PM | #2
I always stop (errr x to coast to almost stop) turn for tighter turns (maybe its psychological), and then start moving at full speed again once facing where i want to go.
-jams

hamlinius's Avatar


hamlinius
07.11.2017 , 07:46 PM | #3
well you still have to have power to engines to go anywhere....would be my guess. otherwises........iono.

Ramalina's Avatar


Ramalina
07.11.2017 , 09:17 PM | #4
It sounds like a really weird result.

From design standpoint the logical thing to do is to have speed and turn rate, and allow both to be affected by buffs and debuffs. Then just let the geometry of the turn circle stem from those.

I'd probably start by re-running the tests looking for errors in test design or execution.

If the result was still the same, particularly across ship types and builds, then I'd start guessing that either F4 has some sort of hidden buff or nerf, or that the power management effects have some sort of bug, or at least are not as described to us by the developers.
"A padawan's master sets their Jedi trial, Rajivari set mine."
- Zhe Lian, Sage.

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Lavaar's Avatar


Lavaar
07.12.2017 , 06:41 AM | #5
There does appear to be some sort of "sweet spot" for which speed makes the tightest turns. Too fast and youre going too far forwards, too slow and you aren't moving fast enough to take advantage of the turn rate. I make my tightest turns (which few, including many aces are able to replicate) by tapping x and moving back and forth across the sweet spot, while also incorporating a strafe to keep my nose where I want it to be. My guess is that F4's default speed is closer to that sweet spot than F2 or F1, which are a little bit slower, and F3, which is too fast.

Verain's Avatar


Verain
07.12.2017 , 09:48 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Lavaar View Post
There does appear to be some sort of "sweet spot" for which speed makes the tightest turns.
For any not familiar with what Vex is talking about, go into a tight turn while holding "decelerate" (which really just sets your throttle at a low position). You'll turn faster than if holding nothing (default throttle position) or holding "accelerate" (maximum throttle position). Now try pressing "stop" (which kills your throttle). As you slow down from "decelerate"'s throttle position, you will begin turning tighter due to your decreased speed- and reasonably quickly your turning will become poor, as you assume the very poor turning rate of a stationary ship.

Now, as to the meat of this post- I also suspect something about this. Here's the problem I have with it (which doesn't mean it is wrong by any means): because a ship in F1/F2 and "decelerate" throttle position turns faster than if you give it a little gas (release "decelerate" for a moment), AND because it turns faster if you kill throttle momentarily as you describe to go under the speed provided by the "decelerate" position... I wouldn't think we are in that odd furball of competing turning logic.

This DOES imply that the "your turning sucks because you are going too slow" effect doesn't come on suddenly below a certain speed as you coast to a halt, but rather is applied according to some undiscovered formula.

Good post Vex, and thanks.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

Storm-Cutter's Avatar


Storm-Cutter
07.12.2017 , 02:40 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by iDahj View Post
I always stop (errr x to coast to almost stop) turn for tighter turns (maybe its psychological), and then start moving at full speed again once facing where i want to go.
-jams
It's more like standing on the brakes & turning on a sixpence. - though not to stop completely. - I do that, and can usually out-turn other scouts if we start a turning race -It also helps for keeping missiles locked, and not racing and overshooting your short-range laser cannons effective range.

OFC Pitch > yaw as well, so best to come up on dive to a target than try to yaw ( left-right)

Tho' I rarely use balanced power settings, there's always something that needs the extra power - Guns shields or engines. - those are bound to my mouse keys: guns and engines on my left thumb side buttons and shields+ CDs and DCDs on the mouse wheel. ( Press, roll back or roll forward)
-Storm Cutter.
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Verain's Avatar


Verain
07.18.2017 , 10:26 AM | #8
I do think we'd figure out a lot more if we could set our throttle with a mousewheel or +/- instead of tapping back and forth between presets to maintain a desired speed, but maybe learning throttlemonkey is just an intended part of the game. I don't feel I would miss it if it were gone and replaced with something more precise, but meh.

Anyway, I think the thread is mostly resolved: the effect that slows your turning down if you are going too slow is probably responsible, and is probably not something that switches on below a certain speed, but has some smoother and lesser effects at speeds that are slow, but not below decelerate (you probably start to see it somewhere between "neutral" and "decelerate" throttle preset speeds).
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

Storm-Cutter's Avatar


Storm-Cutter
07.18.2017 , 02:15 PM | #9
In the end you find the sweet spot instinctively. - If your opponent is turning at full, or neutral throttle, it doesn't take much less to out-turn them. - Enabling a missile lock at worst and a good long burst with the lasers at best.

But if you get into the habit of pitching rather than yawing you're halfway there - and ignoring which way is 'up'.
-Storm Cutter.
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RickDagles's Avatar


RickDagles
07.20.2017 , 02:10 PM | #10
Maybe they gave F4 better turning so that there would actually be a reason to use it? Now that I've gotten used to using F4, I find myself using it against feedback shields rather than F2. It gives you the extra protection you want without sacrificing much DPS compared to F1. In a way, F4 could potentially give you more DPS than F1 in this situation because the extra turning might let you land 1 more glancing blow as the GS runs away. This new information has made F2 mostly useless for me now.