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A word to the joystick-botherers

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
A word to the joystick-botherers

Verain's Avatar


Verain
07.09.2017 , 01:06 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
Here's the rub though, if they don't add controller or joystick support, how are you going to entice those players who are willing to play gsf into the game mode without it?
Presumably you mean, "How will they entice joystick-only players to play GSF?"

The probable answer is, they simply won't.

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I'd play, but lack of controller support essentially means I really will not bother. It's not something I would play with keyboard or mouse, period.
I get that. But if you read my post, it isn't about that at all. It's about what adding disparate and unbalanced control schemes will do to a FULLY PVP game.

J2L had a bunch of farmable idiot mob-ships. It had actual PvE.

J2L wasn't a space sim with support for multiple control types: it was a HOTAS game that supported mouse and keyboard, technically. It takes almost no effort to find a BUNCH of pilots casually remarking that K+M is generally inferior, frustrating, etc.

Turning GSF into this is a demand to throw away the K+M players. For a game where I have seen people come up with ANY excuse as to why it is unbalanced, ranging gear to grouping to experience, adding "have a two hundred dollar HOTAS or play at a disadvantage" would just be one more biting criticism aimed at the game.

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Regardless of whatever "reasoning" you may want to come up with to justify the lack of support for controllers or joysticks that has been requested since the game mode was introduced.
I like that you put reasoning in quotes, like I didn't have actual reasoning, or like I wouldn't know what that looked like.

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BioWare said they would look at that when feedback was given, but to this date nothing has been said further by them about it.
Hint hint.

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TL;DR - No controller and joystick support essentially kills GSF for many players. Nothing else changed is going to make a difference.
Would GSF gain more players by adding joystick support? Would it even gain YOU? If you play GSF, you'll quickly realize how wildly integrated the mouse is, and how different it feels compared to J2L.

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Considering SWG implemented it 'correctly' in their mouse and keyboard MMORPG for Jump To Lightspeed about 13 years ago... the entire argument of "it cant be done" is pretty much null and void.
They absolutely did not, though!

They made a joystick game, and then threw some bones to K+M players. A mouse guy who wanted to fly in pvp was at a serious disadvantage. In this game, that's literally ALL you do, is fly pvp against other pilots. You can't treat that as a secondary thing.

And I went over all those possibilities. J2L falls into the third category: it had correct joystick support. With the mouse and keyboard guys not really getting a fair shake.


Given that the game is fully pvp, you always require pilots queuing up. If you put a superior control scheme gated by hardware access, that will definitely have the stink of favoritism, definitely discourage people from queuing.

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I mean I could ask you the exact same question about reading couldn't I?
No, you couldn't. Or at least, it wouldn't make sense. Because we are addressing your points, and you're ignoring ours.




When I mean that the mouse is well integrated, I mean exactly that. You are often unable to put a pilot under your crosshairs, unable to make a shot without gimballing. This occurs on nodes quite a bit, but in other places as well. The limitations of the controls are universal, as are the advantages. Add joysticks, and you have a completely different (and impossible to balance) set. In J2L, the answer was: use a joystick. I get why the devs are unwilling to make such a concession, and more importantly, I draw out the three ways that joysticks could be added, with their likely results.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

Verain's Avatar


Verain
07.09.2017 , 01:12 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Frigidman View Post
Considering SWG implemented it 'correctly' in their mouse and keyboard MMORPG for Jump To Lightspeed about 13 years ago... the entire argument of "it cant be done" is pretty much null and void.
Also I was able to find 17 pages of players trying to get joysticks to work on a SWG forum. I sure can't wait to see that happen here lol.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
07.09.2017 , 02:21 PM | #13
Look, I played JtL and GSF since their respective betas. Did any of you, who demand joystick support be added to GSF, or you will take your ball and go back to your room?

Because if you did, you would remember that it was almost always superior to use a mouse to control a turret in a POB ship. Using a joystick in a turret was clunky. Just like using a mouse to pilot the ship was awkward, compared to using a joystick to fly.

That's because the turrets were gimballed and the guns controlled by the pilots was not.

JtL was a fundamentally different control scheme and if you ever sat in the turret of a POB ship you'd understand why joystick controls in THIS game would be inferior to K+M.

I get it, really I do, I lobbied for joystick support during GSF's beta and even tried to get my x52 pro working in GSF. But the time to drastically change the control schemes was back in beta, not now.
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Lendul's Avatar


Lendul
07.09.2017 , 02:36 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
Here's the rub though, if they don't add controller or joystick support, how are you going to entice those players who are willing to play gsf into the game mode without it?

I'd play, but lack of controller support essentially means I really will not bother. It's not something I would play with keyboard or mouse, period. Regardless of whatever "reasoning" you may want to come up with to justify the lack of support for controllers or joysticks that has been requested since the game mode was introduced.

BioWare said they would look at that when feedback was given, but to this date nothing has been said further by them about it. I'd link the thread but it isn't coming up on forum search for what I'm searching under.

TL;DR - No controller and joystick support essentially kills GSF for many players. Nothing else changed is going to make a difference.

You refuse to play without having a perceived technological advantage over the common player(KB&M)...gotcha

If that is not the case then I have great news. Many people have figured out how to play GSF with joysticks and controllers. It's just not as good as KB&M and the KB&M people will have an advantage...is that okay?

Transcendent's Avatar


Transcendent
07.09.2017 , 03:20 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Lendul View Post
You refuse to play without having a perceived technological advantage over the common player(KB&M)...gotcha
Let me know where I implied that. I'll happily wait Lendul.

This isn't about which control scheme is "superior" or which control scheme is "inferior", this is purely (on my part) about preference of controller for a type of game mode. Heck, I couldn't give a flying monkeys rear end if controllers were deliberately made to be inferior in GSF, it's still something I would prefer to use to play the game mode.

Yes, balance could be thrown out of whack, but from the sounds of it (from reading in this very forum) that is the least of GSF issues right now. I mean you can all carry on in your own little bubble world if you like, but feedback was asked from BioWare and some of us have given it.

You don't have to like it or agree with it.

Thanks to everyone who has used my Refer a Friend link over the years, may the force be with you.

DakhathKilrathi's Avatar


DakhathKilrathi
07.09.2017 , 03:49 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
Let me know where I implied that. I'll happily wait Lendul.

This isn't about which control scheme is "superior" or which control scheme is "inferior", this is purely (on my part) about preference of controller for a type of game mode. Heck, I couldn't give a flying monkeys rear end if controllers were deliberately made to be inferior in GSF, it's still something I would prefer to use to play the game mode.

Yes, balance could be thrown out of whack, but from the sounds of it (from reading in this very forum) that is the least of GSF issues right now. I mean you can all carry on in your own little bubble world if you like, but feedback was asked from BioWare and some of us have given it.

You don't have to like it or agree with it.
I can't believe I'm going to agree with Lendul, but...

Quote: Originally Posted by Lendul View Post
If that is not the case then I have great news. Many people have figured out how to play GSF with joysticks and controllers. It's just not as good as KB&M and the KB&M people will have an advantage...is that okay?
It's 100% possible to play with a joystick or a controller right now. We can help you get that set up, if you really want. It won't be as good, but it's what you want. Want us to help you with that?

Verain's Avatar


Verain
07.09.2017 , 05:23 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
Let me know where I implied that. I'll happily wait Lendul.
It's pretty much the part where you ask joysticks to be added to the game.

Right now, you can make a joystick work in GSF. Use xpadder. There are other solutions, but here is a generic xpadder instruction video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z80ZUH0FCbY

You will, of course, be controlling the reticule with your joystick.


Because you can ALREADY control the reticule with the joystick, and you are STILL asking for joystick support, I can only assume you are asking for a BETTER way to control your ship in GSF with a joystick. You might want to control the ship laglessly- throw the stick back and be pitching fully up immediately. You might want to be controlling the ship in such a way that you can be turning at maximum speed and also shooting 0 deflection, no penalty shots out the middle of the screen, which you cannot do with the mouse.

GSF already has terrible joystick support. You want correct joystick support, which is a large buff for joystick users.

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This isn't about which control scheme is "superior" or which control scheme is "inferior", this is purely (on my part) about preference of controller for a type of game mode.
Xpadder

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Heck, I couldn't give a flying monkeys rear end if controllers were deliberately made to be inferior in GSF
Xpadder

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it's still something I would prefer to use to play the game mode.
Xpadder is that way ------>

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Yes, balance could be thrown out of whack, but from the sounds of it (from reading in this very forum) that is the least of GSF issues right now.
It's a pvp game, we always want more balance. There's several viable ships and styles, we want more. We'd like them ALL to be viable tbh.

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I mean you can all carry on in your own little bubble world if you like, but feedback was asked from BioWare and some of us have given it.
Right, and this is part of the discussion on that. They didn't ask you to give your feedback privately, or without comment. If they wanted that, they wouldn't have posted discussion threads in their discussion forum and asked for discussion.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

Transcendent's Avatar


Transcendent
07.09.2017 , 11:23 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Verain View Post
It's pretty much the part where you ask joysticks to be added to the game.
So asking for joystick support in-game provided by BioWare (without resorting to third party programs) implies;

Quote: Originally Posted by Lendul View Post
You refuse to play without having a perceived technological advantage over the common player(KB&M)...gotcha
When I said this;

Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
It's not something I would play with keyboard or mouse, period.
Let me see now. Nope. Not seeing it. I guess if the title of the topic is "A word to the joystick-botherers", then I really shouldn't expect to have a reasoned conversation. It's clear you'll all defend your point regardless of logic or reasoning or even being able to read correctly at what players are asking for. I'm done here.

Thanks to everyone who has used my Refer a Friend link over the years, may the force be with you.

Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
07.09.2017 , 11:41 PM | #19
@transcendent

If you could play GSF with a Joystick, however Keyboard/Mouse users had a clear advantage, would you play GSF?
DrakolichDrakolích
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Vhaegrant's Avatar


Vhaegrant
07.09.2017 , 11:50 PM | #20
On the up side maybe Joystick control would tame the Gunship snipers

Never understood the calls for joystick support, GSF is a subgame within a KB&M game it should use the parent controls or as close to it as possible.

Been playing Elite: Dangerous with KB&M since launch and it handles fine having a very similar flight mechanic to GSF.