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GSF Discussion: Friction Points

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
GSF Discussion: Friction Points
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Verain's Avatar


Verain
07.06.2017 , 03:57 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Anzel View Post
1.) It's not really legacy wide. I have over 20 characters.
2.) It NEVER pops on Harbinger. Maybe I'm missing out but I don't ever see it pop.
3.) There is no PvE aspect to it. No exploration. No missions. No free flight. No transportation, etc.
4.) The ships don't have interiors that I can walk around in and explore. Invite friends, etc. (See JTL).
5.) There are no multi-player ships with turrets like JTL.
I think the devs will find your post important, but I have to say that your point (2) is not objectively true. Harbinger GSF pops quite frequently. I can queue morning, evening, and night, and get pops regularly, or very fast if I am in a group. Harbinger GSF is probably the most active GSF queue in the world.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

hesfalcon's Avatar


hesfalcon
07.06.2017 , 03:57 PM | #42
I would love to play it but it makes me seasick after about 10 minutes. Then I need to take about 2-3 hours off before I can look at a computer screen again. Many others have said the same. It's too much of a first person perspective compared to all other aspects of SWTOR. If you had more of a third person perspective, I might try it again.

dscount's Avatar


dscount
07.06.2017 , 03:59 PM | #43
Here is my feedback - I hope it helps change things.

  • Is the learning curve too steep to get into?
  • Not really - The tutorial does a pretty good job at explaining it, but I get the feeling people don't bother. Clearly when we see folks just flying around doing nothing it seems.

  • Is ship balance preventing you from playing?
    Yes - someone already listed a LONG detailed listing of ship issues/changes suggested. 100% agree with them.
    Stock ships by default are sort of lame. Have to change several default parts/pieces to get BiS. Example: Large Reactor is default for nearly most builds folks run with today.

  • Are you not playing because you feel GSF needs something new to bring you back in?
    I'd love to play more, but most matches are either (a) get butt handed to you by a premade or (b) you are lucky enough to be on a premade team and get to rack up the points. See "Matchmaking Issues as my #1 not playing reason.

    I've also a hard time playing GSF on my characters that don't have all the ships unlocked. (Most of them)

    A couple new MAPS would do wonders as getting the same ones more than once in a row needs some QA.

  • Matchmaking issues?
    YES 100% of issues I've seen - I've mentioned this many times and I'll say it again. Balance/Matchmaking is terrible to have a level playing field in GSF (No bolster). If you SOLO que and see a premade that is in voice comms I just leave. (Looking at a specific streamer) Having FOUR ACE players with fully mastered ships and voice communications is plain dumb against solo qued new players and some VET GSF players. In PVP we have a slight "leverage" with Bolster, but in GSF nothing sucks more than being wasted over and over again. I rolled a new character (Even using the new 25k first time quest) and still didn't compete very well until several weeks later of daily and weekly points.

    IDEA 1: Bolster / Buff model. You take all the REQ points from the respective individuals ships on quick bar (Five). Say average ship has 50k points into mastery + the other four also at 50k. You take that 250k and it's a baseline. Average your TEAM out (250k + + + / Count of people). The difference between teams gives the underdog a BUFF on all ships (Shield/Damage/Engines) that lasts entire match.

    IDEA 2: FIX the number of specific ships that can be in flight at once. Having all gunship standoff is silly as well seeing six bombers covering two nodes you can't even touch. If you have 9 players then limit 3 of each ship flying at a time. REZ - you can change if max not on field. This will also get people to accept the QUE pop a lot faster and pick ship.

  • The fact that GSF is character based and not Legacy?
    Absolutely! Please fix this! If it's truly "Galactic Star Fighter" then I should have access to all the ships I've unlocked. The price point is horrible at 1400cc per ship per character. (I just unlock on my "GSF" character on each side)

    IDEA: Give us Legacy wide ships or at least let us unlock account wide with Credits or coins.
Reference Link: Why not? http://www.swtor.com/r/FDltnT
WTB Legacy Bound Ear, Implants, Relics

santafaye's Avatar


santafaye
07.06.2017 , 04:00 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hey folks,

This week, we are creating three separate forum threads for GSF discussion. You can head to this thread to get links to each of them.

Galactic Starfighter, like all group content, is a system that we want to see being used by as many players as possible. This thread is to discuss the friction points that you see in GSF. Whether it stops you from playing frequently, or from playing at all, we want to understand that friction.

Here are some things to consider to get the conversation started:
  • Is the learning curve too steep to get into?
  • Is ship balance preventing you from playing?
  • Are you not playing because you feel GSF needs something new to bring you back in?
  • Matchmaking issues?
  • The fact that GSF is character based and not Legacy?

Let us know your thoughts!

-eric
i dont play because its boring and i would rather do story ,opps, FP's .as BW claims to be story driven PVP has no story's and i hate being forced to do something i don't like .like getting the companions pierce and forx im forced to do PVP if i want them companions

JulianAjax's Avatar


JulianAjax
07.06.2017 , 04:02 PM | #45
Thank you very much for asking for feedback on this.

I agree with much of what has been said so far. Being a new player is brutal. On our server the queues pop at a reasonable rate but there is almost always a pair of fully geared ships. If it is TDM, and they find a new player it is gut wrenching to watch. A fully geared ship can kill a new ship in 1-2 shots. A new player wouldn’t even have time to react.

As others have said, a repeatable tutorial with scaling difficulty on targets could help bridge the learning curve. Maybe even through in some comms to get a few tier 1 upgrades. A tutorial on ship upgrades could help too.

I dread starting over in a brand new ship on new characters. It would be nice if there was a character transferable benefit to help jumpstart things. Maybe if a ship is mastered it gets commendations to start out on a new toon throughout the legacy

A possible ‘outside the box’ idea would be allowing ‘insta-pop’ queuing for a group. Think of it similar to a duel. Everyone in the group or ops group pops into the tutorial map as a free for all. . They are able to play with their actual ships and current upgrades, but NO XP / Comms are earned. It would give the opportunity to play with friends, learn the game, coach new players, and practice strategies.

It would be great to have tiers based on legacy achievement but that would make the queue pops come to a grinding halt. Additionally it would be bad to penalized the most dedicated players with reduced pops because they have too many achievements. Balancing the group is awesome, but not at the expense of extended queuing times.

This next suggestion is really off topic, but I am putting it out there in the hopes it spawns more outside the box thinking. I would LOVE to have a GSF/PVP combined mission, A map with two capital ships attempting to board one another. Round 1 GSF/TDM. Round 2 Voidstar with the GSF winners as the attackers. Doll it up with sidebar objectives. (GSF fighters have to knock out turrets before they can board or something) It may seem off the wall, but it would add a dimension to GSF with already existing maps.

Again, I appreciate the opportunity for feedback!

Monumenta's Avatar


Monumenta
07.06.2017 , 04:04 PM | #46
There are not enough connections with the rest of SWTOR.

Like ground missions to steal the other factions ships and/or special modds, crew, paint jobs, etc.

Likewise, there should be more ground game stuff gained from flying, like GSF crew should be available as regular companions with comms.

Also more game modes and the ability to select which modes you want to play.

frosttj's Avatar


frosttj
07.06.2017 , 04:08 PM | #47
I personally found the combat disorienting more than anything. I appreciate what was attempted, just don't think it appealed to my MMO mind set. Also I didn't feel like grinding out a set of gear would result in any ultimate success and was feel justified in that since there was never any significant reason to be good at GSF. The only time I really felt like I needed to do it was when conquest was competitive, and even then, the instructions if you werent good were to crash into rocks.

Zennan's Avatar


Zennan
07.06.2017 , 04:09 PM | #48
Not going to respond point-by-point here since most of my sentiments align with those presented by DakhathKilrathi.

I would like to add that in general, there's a (possibly huge?) friction between the GSF community and the I-played-GSF-once-or-for-conquest-week community, and within the GSF community itself.

Across the GSF and non-GSF community, the chasm stems from the game having a steep learning curve as a result of multiple smaller issues such as the lack of a good tutorial, the lack of good UI feedback etc. Other sentiments generally include "GSF PVE", where GSF players would happily play a PVP game, whereas SWTOR, being firstly an MMO, has a class of players who prefer playing PVE content.

Within the GSF community there are usually two schools of thoughts: 1. The current meta consisting of the Scout - Gunship - Bomber triumvirate is balanced. 2. Ship class X is broken. I personally belong to the former camp, having flown many flights and have a twitch stream dedicated to GSF, as do most veteran pilots that I know of who produce content for GSF. There are multiple reasons I can think that causes GSF-ers to belong in the latter camp:
  • Perceiving/Desiring GSF to be a platform for space dogfighting. This group usually decry Gunships for their long-range damage potential.
  • Unfamiliarity with ships of other classes. Even with hundreds of hours under ones belt, it is possible to not fly another ship class at all. Bombers complaining that scouts can kill them in one-two seconds don't realize that the opposite is also true. A scout wondering into a minefield can be plucked out of the sky if it sets of mines. Similar things can be said about gunships crying about scouts, or scouts about gunships etc. GSF is an unforgiving game in that in two-three seconds you can get 100-0, regardless of your ship type and regardless of what ship type the opposing ship is.
  • Unfamiliarity with game mechanics. Unless exposed to or extremely observant, a pilot won't realize certain important mechanics of the game such as Strafing, Crit, Damage Overcharges on TDM and what they do to a Scout/Gunship's damage output, and Evasion.
  • Imbalance of queues. A new pilot going against a veteran/ace pilot is like a new chess player going against an Expert. When a scoreboard lists a player as having 30+ kills out of 50 in a TDM, some pilots will default to questioning the ship class' overpoweredness.

TheMeshkin's Avatar


TheMeshkin
07.06.2017 , 04:10 PM | #49
Add an actually good tutorial and make it mandatory for the love of god. I see so many new players try jumping into the action totally unaware of what they are doing let alone the controls for the ships. They jump in, get completely crushed by veteran players and go "welp, never playing this gamemode again." I've seen it happen way too many times.

Exly's Avatar


Exly
07.06.2017 , 04:13 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hey folks,

This week, we are creating three separate forum threads for GSF discussion. You can head to this thread to get links to each of them.

Galactic Starfighter, like all group content, is a system that we want to see being used by as many players as possible. This thread is to discuss the friction points that you see in GSF. Whether it stops you from playing frequently, or from playing at all, we want to understand that friction.

Here are some things to consider to get the conversation started:
  • Is the learning curve too steep to get into?
  • Is ship balance preventing you from playing?
  • Are you not playing because you feel GSF needs something new to bring you back in?
  • Matchmaking issues?
  • The fact that GSF is character based and not Legacy?

Let us know your thoughts!

-eric
Yes to all of your questions.

The truth is that I want to like GSF, but because of all of the reasons that you already have stated, it is not something that I am even contemplating doing. I would like a flight simulator in game where I free flight was possible, and I could learn to maneuver the different ships, and to be able to do simulated builds with different weapons, shields and etc. so that I could practice without having to be cannon fodder for those that have already mastered the game.

I know that you already have a tutorial, but it is frustrating to use because it interrupts all attempts to get a good feel of how the ships operate, and does not allow me to learn at my pace. Instead forces a pace that does not allow me to get actually learn from what I am doing, so after a couple of attempt at trying to us the thing I just gave up and stopped trying.

Even last year during the DvL event, I did not want to waste time on Starfighter, but did create a level one character that I named in a way that made it obvious I was there to afk my way though the matches. I did not enjoy doing this, and I did not like the idea of using others like I did just so that I could complete the event, but I was able to justify what I did by telling myself that they would be angrier with you for requiring me to do GSF for the event, and they would understand why I did what I did.

One last thought. PvP, whether ground based or space based, is more fun when teams are balanced. To that end, a good matchmaking system is always a good idea.