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GSF Discussion: Friction Points

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
GSF Discussion: Friction Points
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Vhaegrant's Avatar


Vhaegrant
07.07.2017 , 12:54 AM | #101
I've been around gaming for a long time, some of my fondest memories stem back to the original Elite and X-Wing games, possibly my favourite space fighter game of all time is Star Wars: Tie Fighter.
I wasn't the best player ever, but I was competent enough and enjoyed the above games immensely and so I thought the GSF would be great fun. Unfortunately it seems to have inherited all of the downsides of an MMO environment.

1) Character specific hanger
For my playstyle SWTOR has evolved into a game about Alts. The original story lines remain the most compelling experience the game has to offer and the one I return to and so over the 5 years have accumulated 38 alts. And yet if I want to play GSF I have to develop each hanger individually!?
Not sure why this decision was taken. I'd be surprised to learn it was a tech limitation as the engine seemingly has no problem storing and sharing information from one character to another across legacy (family tree details, certain currencies) or account wide (collection unlocks).

2) Matchmaking
Lets be honest, matchmaking wouldn't be an issue if the population playing GSF was larger. As it stands though you can wait an age for a game to pop and then find out you're horrendously outgunned. Not a rewarding experience and not one that encourages repeat play.

3) Gearing
Why does gear grind still have a place in MMO design? Why make those new to a game (low in skill, low in gear) the cannon fodder of those that have been playing the game longer (better gear, better skill, not always but at least they'll be familiar with most of the maps and game styles).

4) Rewards
If you are on the loosing side frequently you find the payout for playing GSF is not worth the time investment. Why remain the cannon fodder of others when you could be using limited game time to reap better rewards. My own focus is on credits (although that is fading now the inflation is starting to push gold cartel market sets through the roof, but that's more the greed of other players) and I'll go where I can get better return on my time.

5) Game experience
As I started off with I played a lot of the old space sims, and it's been nice to see a return of interest in them with the release of Elite: Dangerous. I'm not a great pilot but I get by and yet I find GSF to be an extremely frustrating experience. That's why if I want to fly a space ship I go and play a different game rather than play GSF.

Seriously why couldn't we have had the intuitive and engaging experience of a space sim like Star Wars: Tie Fighter, a game that's nearly 25 years old.

Verain's Avatar


Verain
07.07.2017 , 01:00 AM | #102
Quote: Originally Posted by Liquor View Post
Scratch GSF. It's horrible. Fly with mouse and keyboard? I'll pass.
Get over it, this isn't SWG. I get that you wanted a more sandbox type of game, but this isn't really that.

Also, seriously, with the HOTAS, you'd be in a position where players feel they need that to queue. Certainly, if done correctly, a joystick would totally dominate keyboard / mouse junk. They would have to add joystick support to the entire client, just for the GSF part.

The game you are describing sounds really cool man, and there's ways to still play it. But GSF is its own thing, and it is great. I'd love if the game was more like X-Wing, I'd love to use my HOTAS too. But man, it doesn't need to be less approachable, and does it really need to be super huge amounts of development? This just sounds like a QQ post instead of feedback the devs are asking for.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

rantboi's Avatar


rantboi
07.07.2017 , 01:23 AM | #103
I used to play gsf for hours almost every day but stopped when 4.0 broke my crew that I paid to unlock. still waiting for it to be fixed

DarkSaberMaster's Avatar


DarkSaberMaster
07.07.2017 , 02:10 AM | #104
Quote: Originally Posted by Liquor View Post

Spoiler
This too. You would basically have to do this in order for me to play GSF. But I know it will never happen, so......no GSF for me.
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LonelyWookiee's Avatar


LonelyWookiee
07.07.2017 , 02:13 AM | #105
The only time I really play GSF is when I'm leveling because it has great XP. Tonight though, I ended up playing a bit of GSF with some friends because I thought it would be a good idea to refresh my memory before posting. In fact, I'm in a match right now but tabbed over writing this post because it can be so frustrating. That said, I do have a lot of hours logged in GSF and I have mastered both Imperial and Republic scouts. So here it is real time...

Reasons I Do Play GSF
- Great XP
- It's a change of pace.
- My scout looks awesome and I want to show it off.

Reasons I Don't Play GSF
- Defensive abilities suck and players die too fast.
- The rewards aren't worth the time it takes.
- Only two types of matches and the objective match is the same every time.
- I'm sick and tired of getting one-shotted by gunships.
- Matches are rarely head to head, you're either on a team that's good or not and "comebacks" are highly unlikely. I think that's another reason the matches feel soooo long. Be on a losing team and you know you're not going to make a comeback and have to sit there forever waiting for the match to just end. I'm not one to quit mind you, so I keep fighting, and I have seen some comebacks, but that's not to say these are my thoughts while waiting.

Observations
- Gunships are overpowered and in swarms it's hard to get close enough to kill them which is why 9/10 times the match will dissolve into gunship battles/nests on both sides.

- Why is blaster power even a thing? Not only are we dying so fast but now when we're alive we can't even shoot?!

- While I admire the skill of superior pilots the disparity between the average pilot in GSF and those that are "good" is too great. In PVP the difference can be the same but you don't die instantly and at least you feel like you have a fighting chance.

- The NPC/commander voice that says something along the lines of "you have to turn the tide of battle" when you're score is some super low number and the enemy is at 40/50 kills is really annoying. I hate it. Tell me when it's more like a difference of 5 between the teams and we have a chance to turn things around. But saying it when they're just about to win it's like a slap in the face and I'm thinking, "gee how am I supposed to turn the tide - whatever we're doing it hasn't worked thus far and it's highly unlikely we're coming back at this point."

- The only time I've ever seen hacking in this game has been in GSF matches. I PVP almost every day and I don't think I've ever seen anything there but I've seen ships use there evade ability twice back to back, missiles that fire instantly, and ships move in peculiar ways skipping around and preventing target locks.

- I don't really feel "connected" with my ship the way I do with my character. There is a wide range of abilities on my character and I get to choose which one would work best for a given situation. In GSF, death comes too quick and I only have four abilities to use. I know there is some strategy to playing but its just a bit too simple for my tastes. I would like to do more than turn in circles, try for target locks, get shot down by gunships in 1-2 shots, and occasionally use a special ability. I would like to feel more connected to the team too, as we do in operations with everyone having a role.
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Saito_Hiraga's Avatar


Saito_Hiraga
07.07.2017 , 02:36 AM | #106
I got bored of GSF for various reasons, I'll leave balance ones for its respective thread. I'll start going with the suggested questions.

Is the learning curve too steep to get into?
It is, considering you have to unlock all components on all ships per characters, I only played GSF on my main Rep/Imp character cuz its really boring to start from scratch everytime.

Is ship balance preventing you from playing?
Yeh in some way it is I'll get into details on the Ship Balance thread.

Are you not playing because you feel GSF needs something new to bring you back in?
ABSOLUTELY! GSF has only 2 game modes which I got really bored of (Specially the dogfight mode, that one was always boring to my objective/strategy oriented playstyle) After years of waiting with no signs of new content for GSF I just threw the towel and forgot the feature existed till I accidentally type H trying to write on chat while not having it selected lol.
New game modes, ships, customizations, crew is needed on this game mode to be as enjoyable as it warzone partner.
The Star Wars universe is full of scenarios of intense space action. Be creative bring new modes we can take our ships to. A game mode about taking down the enemy team's Harrower/Valor class ships, some new maps on the new locations post KOTFE, Zakuul orbit with the eternal fleet on standby, Odessen atmosphere with a game mode that builds teams of mixed republic/empirecharacters.
Even a progressive PVE mode that works like a flashpoint but in space with our ships on a 4/8 team.
(I remember I designed this scenario back when GSF launched and you were asking for our suggestions about new maps: http://i.imgur.com/EBOB0xv.jpg)
Also make KOTFE crew useable on GSF, bring in those Zakuul ships:
https://image.noelshack.com/fichiers...996-zf-m3d.jpg
http://pre11.deviantart.net/353f/th/...ex-d9ky79f.jpg
https://torcommunity.com/potato/4.0p...%20Shuttle.PNG
Keep the customizations comming, new colors, new patterns, also new weapons and upgrades to have more options to pick from on our arsenal.

Matchmaking issues?
Not really just the time it takes to find a match but as more people come back to GSF that wouldn't be an issue

The fact that GSF is character based and not Legacy?
Yeah this too, as I mentioned earlier GSF shouldn't be character based, its boring to start from scratch and unlock everything again for every alt u have. Specially since GSF customizations cannot be unlocked on collections. You don't know how dissapointing is to get your hands on those ships that came exclusively on the packs and to be unable to use them on all your characters.
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Verain's Avatar


Verain
07.07.2017 , 02:37 AM | #107
Quote: Originally Posted by LonelyWookiee View Post
- Defensive abilities suck and players die too fast.
- The rewards aren't worth the time it takes.
- Only two types of matches and the objective match is the same every time.
All legit and real concerns. I don't personally feel defensives are bad, but if you are a new player it could easily feel that way.

Quote: Originally Posted by LonelyWookiee View Post
- I'm sick and tired of getting one-shotted by gunships.
Getting one shot by a gunship should be REALLY rare. If you play a distortion field type 2 scout, with large reactor and a crew member who has +shield, you have a total of 2250 (in F3 or F1: even more in F4 or F2) health in any direction if you aren't injured. A slug railgun at full charge will hit for 1760. If the slug has the crit talent, it can one shot you (16% of the time), and the other 84% of the time it will deal 1600 instead of 1760. Damage Overcharge (which is announced on the screen) also allows it. Are you really getting luckily crit, or getting nailed by DO, enough times to be sick of it? Or do you not actually mean you are being one-shot?

Other scout builds can have even more health than that, but I don't recommend them in general.

Quote:
- Matches are rarely head to head, you're either on a team that's good or not and "comebacks" are highly unlikely.
A common complaint, and while it doesn't bother me as much (most pvp games are kinda like this), it is definitely echoed throughout the thread.


Quote:
- Gunships are overpowered
That's a blanket statement.
Quote:
Why is blaster power even a thing? Not only are we dying so fast but now when we're alive we can't even shoot?!
You have to manage all your power banks! If you're running out of blaster fire, take your shots a bit more carefully. There's plenty of juice in the tank as long as you aren't wasting it.

Quote:
- While I admire the skill of superior pilots the disparity between the average pilot in GSF and those that are "good" is too great.
Agreed, but the big fixes for this include better tutorials, the ability to queue a practice level with a ship of your choice alone or with friends, etc. Trying to take the skill cap of the game down will definitely ruin it.

Quote:
- The only time I've ever seen hacking in this game has been in GSF matches.
THIS is what made me push respond. I'm going to be direct: you seriously don't know what you are talking about here.

Quote:
I PVP almost every day and I don't think I've ever seen anything there but I've seen ships use there evade ability twice back to back, missiles that fire instantly, and ships move in peculiar ways skipping around and preventing target locks.
The final one of those is caused by lag. It's not out of all possibilities that someone is lagging as a way to be harder to hit, but with practice you will find that lagging pilots have several weaknesses, including the fact that the server will sometimes "hold" them in a position that makes them quite vulnerable to weapon fire. I'm almost positive that deliberate uses of lag are very very rare.

The other things you describe I have literally never seen, and I feel confident saying you don't understand what is going on. I will also offer another explanation for your "instant missile". Seeker mines lock on (just like a missile) and fire (just like a missile) and can be cancelled (just like a missile). But the "lock on" is *instant*, and the mine launches. It is almost certain that you are seeing this. The double evasion thing is probably just a mistake on your part, but I will point out that one of the evasion cooldowns- running interference- applies to all allies near the caster. You could see it pop up repeatedly just for this reason. Note also that buffs can be odd, appearing to not be present and reappearing based on distance at times.

It's a long running joke that you aren't really doing great until someone logs over and calls you a hacker. Many pilots have had tickets opened on them- accusations of hacking are a very common refrain.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

omaan's Avatar


omaan
07.07.2017 , 02:59 AM | #108
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hey folks,

This week, we are creating three separate forum threads for GSF discussion. You can head to this thread to get links to each of them.

Galactic Starfighter, like all group content, is a system that we want to see being used by as many players as possible. This thread is to discuss the friction points that you see in GSF. Whether it stops you from playing frequently, or from playing at all, we want to understand that friction.

Here are some things to consider to get the conversation started:
  • Is the learning curve too steep to get into?
  • Is ship balance preventing you from playing?
  • Are you not playing because you feel GSF needs something new to bring you back in?
  • Matchmaking issues?
  • The fact that GSF is character based and not Legacy?

Let us know your thoughts!

-eric
The problem is that you guys have no idea what must be easy to understand and what is not. Remooving channeling abilities from meele classes and different stance buffs due to your incorrect opinion that these things made the bame difficult - WRONG because people liked it. Making gsf option window (when a player opens that strange window (which i dont even fully understand what it is, however showing ships, barrels etc) so difficult and scary-looking - WRONG. So many options in this window and things to think about in that spooky window before you join a fight, and you know players actually dont like to spend their time for long regulating/adjusting/reading etc since we do all of these at our works/studies. All players want is to join snd fight something that has easy mechanics but requires skills to fight other players. Thats why most of the players are not even thinking about playing it.

I don't think gsf has potential and that you can make it both have easy mechanic but good skill to play. Focus on other parts of the game pls.

P. S. We need cross-server queues or server merges fast!! French and german servers are dying, same with most USA servers

merovejec's Avatar


merovejec
07.07.2017 , 03:09 AM | #109
Quote: Originally Posted by UlaVii View Post
Queue as ops groups
Please let us queue as ops groups as the current 4 person group system makes team matches very difficult

Improved kick system
Please give us a better kick system. Currently there is nothing we can do about CXP farmers that join a match and then do nothing besides fly around the outside and occasionally get killed to avoid being auto-kicked for extended inactivity. The only kick option we have is when they are flagged as inactive and then as soon as we start the kick they move and it cancels.

Don't match us with those we ignore
Please give us a "don't queue with those you ignore" option. This would help with people like the one I kept sending you videos and screenshots of who choose to use multiple bots inside matches or even just those that fly on their own but suicide through matches to get the achievements. My thinking here is that if we had that option during that whole bot saga then all of us regulars would of had them on ignore and whilst we could fly together the troublemakers would not get into matches with us.
YES! Please let there be SMW premades that faceroll the oposition! Will be so much fun and people will enjoy to que solo against a premade of TOP players who will farm them at spawn, match after match!
Merovejec
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tephlon's Avatar


tephlon
07.07.2017 , 03:14 AM | #110
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
  • Is the learning curve too steep to get into?
  • Is ship balance preventing you from playing?
  • Are you not playing because you feel GSF needs something new to bring you back in?
  • Matchmaking issues?
  • The fact that GSF is character based and not Legacy?
1. Learning curve - it is. I have one character with three almost-maxed out ships and wanted to start from scratch on another one just to realize that for the next 10 hours of playtime I'll be simply flying around and dying just to get enough comms to get the thing started; the whole mode lacks directions, and if it wasn't for the fantastic community, 90% of the rules would be completely obstructed or would require an insane amount of time investments (e.g. to get every single available ship and component to understand the capabilities).
Also, after having played around 250 matches I still have a feeling I'm missing something, an element that drastically changes the experience but is known only to some.

2. Ship balance - sadly, it is. I came back after a year because I wanted to play GSF but had to quit after 2 weeks or so because I couldn't stand the constant meta of bomber & GS camping that turns the game from an awesome dogfighting experience into a tedious and frustrating lottery ("will I be facing THOSE guys again?"). I understand that all ship types have their place, role and playstyle, it's just that it's impossible for me to enjoy the game in its current state.

3. Definitely; right now, GSF it's pretty much a separate game with no connection to the regular one; apart from CXP, the rewards seem non-existent and don't provide enough incentive. New maps and gamemodes would also be welcome; the current ones are really, really good, but all in all the gamemode needs some additional variety.

4. Matchmaking issues - all over the place, but I understand it's impossible to have proper matchmaking if there isn't enough players

5. Legacy - I'm indifferent to the matter, I guess

Side note: thank you very much for looking into GSF, being as awesome as it is, it does need improvements.