........ Edited June 10, 2017 by Einobi

Hm, its Star Wars War games are all about killing.

Im just curious, what MMO you played before SWTOR without killing anything for months?

The MMOs that Im playing are all about killing, farming, insulting the opponents in PvP.

Edited June 8, 2017 by iankalo

Don't forget about erp, it's always about the erp.

....... Edited June 10, 2017 by Einobi

Im just curious, what MMO you played before SWTOR without killing anything for months?

It could be almost any of the sandbox games. You can go for months in Dofus just chopping down trees and crafting wooden weapons for people. Or capturing wild mounts and breeding them to get actual mounts people can ride and selling those. Or harvesting grain crops and crafting bread-like food-buff objects. Or fishing, or whatever. No combat required.

 

The same sort of thing can happen in, say, FFXIV - just learn to run between the raindrops to avoid combat between mining, fishing, crafting, or whatever.

 

And the list is longer than those. ArcheAge, BDO, and many others. Or the infamous SWG, which was actually a *Star Wars* game...

Sorry I have to go with Conan on this one !

What is best in life?

To Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of the women!

Hm, its Star Wars War games are all about killing.

Im just curious, what MMO you played before SWTOR without killing anything for months?

The MMOs that Im playing are all about killing, farming, insulting the opponents in PvP.

 

Well.. when I played BDO you could make a lot of progress by afk fishing or running afk trade routes.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Damask_Rose

There's a moderate amount of negotiated agreement available in the story content.

 

Not as much negotiation and [force persuade] as in the KOTOR games, but it is there.

 

I suppose technically in PvP if you wanted to be a conscientious objector you could go for pure healing (and seers could Rescue people away from fights to disrupt the fight, the fighters probably wouldn't appreciate it though).

 

So, if you started at level 1 with GSF, and only did passive Satellite turning or defense, and then at level ten started doing WZs as pure heals, you could get to max level without ever even hitting anyone. There are also probably some planetary quests out there that don't require killing anything, especially if you're stealthed and use CCs and re-stealth abilities cleverly.

 

You can also do datacrons, and large portions of the macrobinocular quest chain without killing.

 

Mostly it's a matter of Bioware looking at the question, "If we make non-combat content will it attract enough paying customers so that we'll make a profit on that content," and figuring that the answer is probably, "no."

Really OP. This is star Wars. What were you expecting.

 

Its clear to me that MMO's are not for you.

I am sometimes logged in at work and do nothing but sit in fleet and craft and sell items.

 

BDO had alot of cool non-combat things to do, I agree,..

 

Are you suggesting fishing on Alderaan or Manaan?

Ok well here is the thing, this isn't a sandbox MMO. If you want to do stuff other then killing for months on end, go play a sandbox MMO that is designed for that.

 

This isn't a sandbox. The closest thing you can find for that is maybe decorating all your strongholds. Other then that, welcome to a standard MMO.

Get your Undertale Mercy crap out of my massacre for the sake of achieving galactic domination or the eradication of Space Nazis. If you're to sensitive to even consider killing an enemy in something like a Star Wars Lego game then you should probably look elsewhere. Conflict makes for interesting storytelling and immersion, and doing so will involve at least some level of killing, especially in something lik STAR WARS. Seriously, what do you expect? If you don't want to kill, then sit on the fleet and grind crew skills or something. You'll probably get bored, but that's because the game intends you to do something exciting.

Im just curious, what MMO you played before SWTOR without killing anything for months?

 

"Blizzard never contacted Johnnie to let him know, so being immortalized in World of Warcraft came as a big surprise. While in truth it's just a subtle joke, he sees it as Blizzard finally validating the way he chooses to play its game. Like Star Wars fans lamenting that there's no middle ground between the light and dark sides of the force, Doubleagent has sat awkwardly between the Horde and Alliance. "It's nice that they showed that being neutral is a choice," Johnnie says. "It might not be the fastest way to level, but it's an option."

 

Farming flowers all day long - it is a choice that can be made - http://www.pcgamer.com/meet-wows-biggest-hippie-a-panda-who-reached-max-level-by-picking-thousands-of-flowers/

Ok well here is the thing, this isn't a sandbox MMO. If you want to do stuff other then killing for months on end, go play a sandbox MMO that is designed for that.

 

This isn't a sandbox. The closest thing you can find for that is maybe decorating all your strongholds. Other then that, welcome to a standard MMO.

 

is WoW a standard mmo?

 

http://www.pcgamer.com/meet-wows-biggest-hippie-a-panda-who-reached-max-level-by-picking-thousands-of-flowers/

..... Edited June 10, 2017 by Einobi

I don't know how to title my thread ... therefore the awkward title.

 

My point is so far there is only essentially down to its root TWO things to do in the game. Yea, only TWO things to do down at the root. I am not talking about the variety of things to do (which is a handful) but the fundamental principles of game play here.

 

The TWO things to do is:

(1) KILL NPC (aka PvE)

(2) KILL other player (aka PvP)

 

Apart from these TWO things, there are some sporadic RP play which is largely not supported by the game mechanism except perhaps some fanciful cosplay available on the market place.

 

I have precious game play experience with another MMO (which I will not name here lest it will advertise for them) where I can play for months without needing to kill a single NPC or another player and I can still thoroughly enjoy it (and I spent the most money on this MMO than all the other MMOs added together ever in my more than 20 years of MMO game play career). So it is possible for another type of gameplay beyond the TWO things listed above. I will not go into details of such as I am sure SWTOR team is capable of doing their own research what these are.

 

I hope SWTOR can look beyond that TWO things to do and develop another THINGS TO DO beyond just KILLING (NPC or player).

 

I'm curious what mystical MMO you're talking about. But regardless of that, the vast majority of MMOs, and games in general, boil down to this.

 

Even if you look at all-time great RPGs, what does KotOR 2 boil down to? Baldur's Gate? Dragon Age? Fallout?

 

You're playing a game called Star Wars. Combat is going to be integral.

What I am suggesting is for additional extension to the current mechanisms and NOT suggesting to take the existing current mechanisms away. To introduce non-combat game play is not equivalent to taking away existing combat game play. So, there is no need to be defensive.

 

Except you are. A request to add any content to a game diverts resources and attention. You're inadvertantly reducing/taking away future gameplay and content of that type. Which is fine to suggest, but these suggestions do affect other content.

 

I see some good ideas from other players such as craftable personal starship, craftable deco, breeding (exotic) mount etc etc...[1] everyone is almost a generalist, there is essentially no room for specialist track in non-combat content. There is no depth for specialist in non-combat content.

 

There are many advantage for specialist track in non-combat content, one of which it [2]will encourage people to sub multiple account so that each account can specialize in one track. For those who question about whether there is money to be made in non-combat content, this is one possibility.

 

[1] As with most themepark MMOs, such is the case. This sort of gameplay is much more fitting in sandbox MMOs. Might I recommend checking out Star Wars: Galaxies?

[2] What? I mean really, what? I don't follow. Each account can support at least 16 characters per server; Are you insinuating that you can only have one non-combat specialization per account?

Furthermore, why would I subscribe to a game which is primarily a combat-oriented MMO, just to play a half-working 'specialization' system?

Why would I play the SWTOR alternative when Star Wars: Galaxies already offers all this, and I can play that for free?

How do you reconcile these non-combat professions with the standing class stories and archetypes?

 

If we don't change and add in new game play,[1] things will come to a diminishing return someday (look at WoW) no matter how good you implement PvE and PvP. Boredom [2]will eventually set in even though you introduce new boss, new ops etc, but deep within it is essentially the same gameplay on a new skin.

 

1. I'm not sure referencing WoW, the most-subscribed MMO on the market, as an example of "Diminishing Return" works. But it's funny that you do mention diminishing returns; since you have no data to suggest the popularity of these non-combat professions, you're actually suggesting content which could cause such a situation.

I would argue the popularity of a non-combat profession would hardly draw in new players. The majority of gamers prefer combat-focused games. Sandbox MMOs centered on player crafting and the sandbox (which SWTOR again lacks) are typically niche and small for a reason.

 

2. Boredom will set in with any game and any mechanic. For most players, gameplay centered around gathering materials and waiting for X item to finish crafting isn't exactly thrilling.

 

**Final:

 

It seems like what you're wanting simply isn't the core design of SWTOR. I'm going to reiterate in asking: Why are you not just playing Star Wars: Galaxies? This game was never intended to be a sandbox centered around 'living' in the Star Wars universe, but was meant to make you a hero in the Star Wars universe.

Go play a game meant to have these mechanics.

Farming flowers all day long - it is a choice that can be made - http://www.pcgamer.com/meet-wows-biggest-hippie-a-panda-who-reached-max-level-by-picking-thousands-of-flowers/

 

BioWare should devote time and money redesigning its systems so one player can use a gimmick to level up as a joke?

 

What a great way to spend resources!

Well, EVE is different game.

 

Allowing pirate actions in SWTOR would kill it. That's how it is.

Edited June 9, 2017 by Halinalle

Like all MMOs it has its roots in old tabletop RPG games- just look at hit-points levels, spells experience and the like.

 

The way to gain XP and gorw more powerful was to overcome challenges and to kill stuff - lots of stuff.

 

It's Star Wars. It's about action, not sitting on a riverbank fishing, or having dinner with friends- that's for you to RP.

 

How many people fast-forwarded through the Anakin+ Padme romance sections to get to the lightsabres and space-battles? - Exactly - WE want to feel epic- and you don't feel so epic actually playing at knitting or nerf-herding in real-time. - That's what IRL is for.

You're playing a game called Star Wars. Combat is going to be integral.

Hint: the SW in SWG is "Star Wars", and everything I've seen people say about SWG indicates that while combat may have been integral to the *game*, it wasn't integral to the gameplay of all types of characters. (entertainers, etc...)

 

And the mythical/mystical game the other poster played, where he could play daily but go months without fighting, could be *any* of the MMORPGs toward the "sandbox" end of the sandbox/themepark spectrum. I alluded to this in my previous post: Dofus, ArcheAge, BDO, SWG, FFXIV(1), etc. Yes, there's plenty of fighting in all of these, but you don't *have* to fight.

 

(1) I wouldn't ordinarily call FFXIV a sandbox game, but it's closer to sandbox than SWTOR is, since things like "Fisherman" or "Culinarian" (I'd be more inclined to call it "Chef", but OK) are classes.

and everything I've seen people say about SWG indicates that while combat may have been integral to the *game*, it wasn't integral to the gameplay of all types of characters. (entertainers, etc...)

.

 

I wish people would stop bringing up SWG and Entertainers. it just makes me cry and realize we will never see that aspect of gameplay mechanic integrated into an mmo the way SWG did.

 

I am only here out of MMO desperation ,...don't rub it in, please.

:(

...... Edited June 10, 2017 by Einobi

because it seem there are some who failed to see the under-current beneath my suggestion, and only choose to hammer on the surface stuffs. And that is missing the point.

Well, at the risk of sounding harsh, I would suggest that you shouldn't rely on (unstated) undercurrents to convey your main point, so people's failure to see the point is more or less entirely *your* fault.

 

And I disagree with your supposition that because there is soon going to be another sandbox game, BioWare should (must?) change SWTOR to be more sandboxy in order to keep it viable. While themepark/sandbox is a spectrum (I'd suggest that FFXIV is evidence of that), by implication Star Citizen and SWTOR are in very different places on it, and that means they appeal to very different parts of the themepark-player/sandbox-player spectrum, and are unlikely to "poach" much from each other.

i don't know how to title my thread ... Therefore the awkward title.

 

My point is so far there is only essentially down to its root two things to do in the game. Yea, only two things to do down at the root. I am not talking about the variety of things to do (which is a handful) but the fundamental principles of game play here.

 

The two things to do is:

(1) kill npc (aka pve)

(2) kill other player (aka pvp)

 

I hope swtor can look beyond that two things to do and develop another things to do beyond just killing (npc or player).

 

WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree

The fact that you can gain a "HOLOCAUST" achievement for killing (5000?) on a given planet says it all...

Look, I even took 10 minutes to type down the wise words of three great Jedi Masters...

 

Ohhh. Great warrior.

[laughs and shakes his head]

 

Wars not make one great.

 

Grandmaster Yoda

 

Taking a life affects the Living Force - and the one who does the killing.

This is why Jedi enter battles calmly, with reason.

Emotions like fear and anger lead to the dark side

 

Grandmaster Satele Shan

 

Since you set out to defeat the Emperor, you've been fighting almost non-stop.

You've been waist-deep in dirt and fear and blood.

Since the Emperor's fall, the war's only gotten uglier. And there are dark times coming. For the galaxy... and for you.

And I'm worried you forget why you're fighting.

Defending the Republic, vanquishing the Sith. Those are TOOLS a jedi uses in the SERVICE of light, of people - NOT ENDS unto themselves.

I'm here to help you reconnect.

We're going to take a little time - and HELP THE PEOPLE of Rishi.

People eking out a living, good and bad, living in fear of guns and pirates.

You're going to make their lives BETTER. AS ONLY YOU CAN.

 

No Sith Lords, no ancient evils this time.

Just doing a little bit of GOOD.

 

You're going to FEEL

WHY

You're a

JEDI

Master Orgus Din