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Server Hopping Republic GSF Weirdos are Ruining Queue's

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Server Hopping Republic GSF Weirdos are Ruining Queue's

Verain's Avatar


Verain
07.08.2017 , 12:41 PM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer View Post
Well, with that little information a Newbie gets within the game, how is he or she able to tell whether someone cheats or not ?
Doesn't matter. When players are really bad, cheating assumptions are their number one way of broadcasting how terrible they are. They literally can't even comprehend what good play looks like.

It's not that something LOOKS like cheating to them though: it's how they respond to that perception. If they assume that the cheating is real instead of questioning their own understanding, that's a real problem.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

caederon's Avatar


caederon
07.08.2017 , 01:32 PM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer View Post
Well, with that little information a Newbie gets within the game, how is he or she able to tell whether someone cheats or not ?
They absolutely should have more information in game, I have advocated for that for years and have done so in numerous posts since this latest dev-blitz happened.

I provide an outside source of information at GSF School, but that sort of material should always be supplementary to what the dev team provides to teach people how to play their game. Anything in-game will reach far more players. The more in-depth analysis stuff Mika and I do on the channel is valuable either way, but the raw beginner tutorial need should be covered by Bioware in-game. It wasn't, so I made what I did.

I take issue with the presumption of cheating when faced with vastly superior competition. I had an experience on TRE recently where I started some new alts. With the massive boost to fleet req gained from the Intro to Starfighter quest (you get 25000 now instead of 5000) and the decreased component costs, you can upgrade a single ship to a competitive level within one or two matches, if that is how you choose to spend it. Anyway the short version of the story is: I did that, put up big numbers (though actually, my side lost in those games) and immediately some guy came over to my faction and accused me of using 'half a dozen known exploits,' amid other insults. I told him I'd be glad to explain to him how I did everything I did and indeed even show him a recording of the match from my perspective so he could see it all, but this apparently was meaningless to him so he kept haranguing me and said he'd have a team of people reporting me. He couldn't actually tell me what I had done that constituted cheating, of course... and concluded by telling me I was a 'kid' whose 'generation doesn't know what honesty is.'

A few days later someone whom he had apparently convinced that I cheated also accused me of being a cheater when I was on the other faction, on the same side as the accuser. I had made a comment in ops chat trying to get my team to go to C or something, and the guy replied 'cheat for us too pls.' I engaged him in some conversation after when he made some more unfounded claims, said he'd 'forgot to print scrn two days ago when you told the other 2 ppl you use to cheat and enjoy doing it cause u make an enemy upset.' I told him I had never said such things and he replied 'i'll register it so i'll be able to prove my words.'

What he intended to register and where were never made clear, and the guy eventually relented and said he 'i maybe wrong about you but not others.' But the point very clearly is that these people could not even conceive of someone playing at the level I did without cheating. And I can show people very plainly how to do precisely that without cheating.

Lack of knowledge about the game and how it works is what precipitates this. I once had an accuser convinced I was hacking because.... I strafed while charging my railgun. Ignorance and unwillingness to look at the reasons for failure bring this on.

Quote: Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer View Post
At one point I just gave up, believing I will never be that good.
...
I stopped PvP as well, because people insisted that I was bad. Okay, I'm bad, then, that's why I lose so often, and have the feeling I can't contribute at all. There is always someone better, faster, more professional than me..
I have no issue with players who are playing to the best of their ability level, wherever that line falls. If you make the effort to learn the game and give it your all, I won't ask anything more than that. I would suggest that there are many ways to contribute positively to a team that don't revolve around having high twitch skills... just knowing how to be in the right place at the right time, holding a satellite neutral for a few seconds while your team regroups, can make all the difference. GSF offers ships and roles that do not require high twitch skills. Many of the parts of GSF I'd like to see improved are utility and support weapons/abilities.

I'm not trying to convince you personally to resume playing, but I do firmly believe that there is a place in the game for anyone who approaches it with the mindset of learning how the game works and finding a way to positively contribute to their team.

- Despon

josephxp's Avatar


josephxp
07.08.2017 , 07:39 PM | #73
Quote: Originally Posted by Verain View Post
Doesn't matter. When players are really bad, cheating assumptions are their number one way of broadcasting how terrible they are. They literally can't even comprehend what good play looks like.

It's not that something LOOKS like cheating to them though: it's how they respond to that perception. If they assume that the cheating is real instead of questioning their own understanding, that's a real problem.
Ya i mean, i got 42 kills in a death match before because 3 people kept charging at my railgun head on, not arcing, not using their scouts evade just straight into the railgun... thats just suicide you dont run straight into a charging gunship unless you have a death warrent or are a bomber using charged plating, you go at an arcing angle. Then i got hate mail, and kept getting called a cheater when it was 3 scouts that kept charging my position when i was attempting to flank the rest of their team.

Also nothing wrong with people between servers. Between the Ebon Hawk and the Harbinger people change all the time between the servers because sometimes it could get stale or they have friends on both servers.
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AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
07.10.2017 , 02:53 PM | #74
I don't believe that cheating exists in GSF. THe game is as fast as possible, and for good players there simply is no need for cheating, so why should cheating exist there ?
The only ones who would like to want to cheat are Newbies who don't understand how to come over an enemy - in single-player offline games I did so many years ago, like in Icewind Dale, since I never quite understood the (A)D&D rules. And to this day, they are still a bit strange to me.

However, this never kept mefrom having multiple "***???" moments.
Where is the fun in getting shot by scouts so fast that I'm rendered into being an non-contributor in terms of competition ? Do some players prefer to have non-competition via curbstomping other players ?
What's the sense in snatching away as much kills as possible from me as a Newbie so that I'm rendered into being a non-contributor ? What kind of logic lies behind taking away the only rewarding thing GSF provides to Newbies which is having a successful kill ? Is this just another facet of "Newbies have to learn" strategy ? Snatching away their kills so that they learn to become faster and battle against their "getting their stuff snatched away" ? How can I become faster as a scout which takes away from me the opposite side's ship kill ? Is this a "nudge" to make me fly a scout, too ? Or a gunship ? Nothing is faster and as deadly as a scout.

I have horrible memories of them, getting shot by 2-4 shots by them without even knowing *why* Veterans of course know why. Good if they tell those Newbies like me. Apart from the fact that I was never told before I gave up GSF. This was the early time of GSF, before these new outside-game knowledge resources came up.

On the other hand, trying to be such a good pilot when I thought I'd become one over time when flying a scout, I had the experience of being cannon foidder, too. By other scouts, mostly, as far as I can remember. No-one had told me I had to max out evasion, for example, even a few points into it didn't help much to me. I was simply too bad.

My worst point, however, is my dyscalculia. The term "5%" doesn't say me a single thing regarding game mechanics. It looks awfully low, if I try to imagine a cake on my dish divided in parts so that I can eat a piece of it which makes up 5 % of the whole cake. Am I right that 5 % out of 100 $ is just 5 $ ? It just looks so awfully small - will it ever help me to have 5 % evasion ? Yet scouts just can almost never get hit (partly because they are so fast, too).

In short : The GSF rules set GREATLY rewards people who are good with math. Same goes for ground PvP.

Being good at writing but inherently insanely bad at maths, I have found no place, no point in this game which could help me -
- especially since programmers ALWAYS think in numbers than in text-stories. I'm sure that ANY math formula can be fully explained in pictures and in words alone, yet no-one does so. Explaining in mental pictures (like my example with the cake from above) seems to be so much frowned upon ...

With my dyscalculia I really don't belong into GSF. And that was just another point where I just gave up : I was simply unable to calculate everything. Even now, 5 % sounds so incredibly small to me ... like a siungle drop into the ocean, so to say ...

From my highly subjective point of view, GSF os broken so much on an psychological level that finding it rewarding is a thing only found after a very, very, very long search. And only for people who are good at maths.
Complex minds
will create
Complex problems.

caederon's Avatar


caederon
07.10.2017 , 03:53 PM | #75
Quote: Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer View Post
What's the sense in snatching away as much kills as possible from me as a Newbie so that I'm rendered into being a non-contributor ? What kind of logic lies behind taking away the only rewarding thing GSF provides to Newbies which is having a successful kill ? Is this just another facet of "Newbies have to learn" strategy ? Snatching away their kills so that they learn to become faster and battle against their "getting their stuff snatched away"
There is no kill-stealing in GSF.

A kill is worth precisely as much requisition gain as an assist. The player who has 20 assists has gained just as much as the player with 20 kills in terms of game-based rewards. The player who gains the assist loses nothing.

There is also no label on each enemy player that says 'this player has been shot the most times by ____ so that player is deserving of the kill.'

It is a team game, and every kill --no matter who delivers it-- brings that team closer to victory.

Quote: Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer View Post
In short : The GSF rules set GREATLY rewards people who are good with math. Same goes for ground PvP.
I'm an artist and musician by trade. I can't do math beyond algebra. I seem to do ok.

If you need help with builds, there are many non-numeric resources (like 'asking someone') that can put you in a very competitive scout or whatever build.

- Despon

caederon's Avatar


caederon
07.10.2017 , 04:39 PM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer View Post
What's the sense in snatching away as much kills as possible from me as a Newbie so that I'm rendered into being a non-contributor ?
I just want to emphasize this point:

ASSISTS ARE WORTH AS MUCH AS KILLS

_
If you are shooting at the enemy, and have properly aimed your shot, that counts as a 'hit' on your scoreboard Hit% even if it deals no damage because of Evasion.

Any shot you land on an enemy counts as contribution in fulfilling the game's requirement that you interact with other game objects, in the metaphorical sense that you are contributing to your team's success, and in the personal sense that if you shoot someone and that player later is destroyed, you get credit for an Assist on the scoreboard... and that Assist is worth as much requisition as a kill.

Take a look at this screenshot of a match in which my final tally was:

0 kills, 40 assists, 4 deaths
_
Note that I gained 1968 Ship Requisition for my participation in that match. That came from racking up 40 assists.

Were my kills stolen?
No.

Was I penalized for not finishing off kills, a large percentage of which undoubtedly were mine given my 110178 damage dealt?
No.

Were my assists somehow an inadequate contribution to my team in a metaphysical sense or in the case of personal fulfillment?
You be the judge.

- Despon

hamlinius's Avatar


hamlinius
07.11.2017 , 08:50 PM | #77
Quote: Originally Posted by caederon View Post
Anecdotally, which I am sure you will point out can be discounted by however much you value someone's personal experience, I have found the days where this phenomenon is at its worst are CXP Bonus Days. Unless these are stealthy Conquesters trying to throw shade on noble CXP farmers, it's certainly part of the problem even if not necessarily the whole thing.

And hey, I am indeed aware of how GSF participation is rewarded. I even made a whole video talking solely about Medals so that people could get up to speed, see how to earn medals, and benefit from both the sweet CXP they award and also from the Conquest rewards (which do, in fact, incentivize Conquistadors to play).

Even with all of these incentives, people continue doing their best barnacle impersonation and or using their ships to survey friendly spawn points like they're planning to build a mall there.

Perhaps my differentiation came to a conclusion differentiated from your own. What a surprise that would be.

- Despon
but but.....we need a new mall. think of all the business we could bring in with a new mall.....and it has to go RIGHT THERE!!!.

KrysTamar's Avatar


KrysTamar
07.11.2017 , 10:35 PM | #78
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthNillard View Post
So I can queue at Level 1, get my 2 naked nonsense ships, and hop into a match where I get destroyed and say "yeah, never playing this again" which is more to my first point.
Or...people could do like I did and go "Wow...those guys are good...I need to queue more, so I can get better!" Man, was I excited when I hit my first 15% hit a few weeks ago (been queuing for 2 years now).

hamlinius's Avatar


hamlinius
07.11.2017 , 10:37 PM | #79
Having now read all of the posts. Despon I really like you and what you are trying to do. I don't know if you ever fly on BC but I hope that if you do i'm on to fly with/against you. believe me i'll be revisiting all those guides again. Like you I fly because I love to fly. I have tried to build up GSF on BC some of our really good pilots have moved on to other servers. or on to other games. i'm rambling. if you do fly on BC ask for Hamlinius that's my main. or Arrow One. or Javelin One on Impside.

caederon's Avatar


caederon
07.12.2017 , 09:12 AM | #80
Quote: Originally Posted by hamlinius View Post
Having now read all of the posts. Despon I really like you and what you are trying to do. I don't know if you ever fly on BC but I hope that if you do i'm on to fly with/against you. believe me i'll be revisiting all those guides again. Like you I fly because I love to fly. I have tried to build up GSF on BC some of our really good pilots have moved on to other servers. or on to other games. i'm rambling. if you do fly on BC ask for Hamlinius that's my main. or Arrow One. or Javelin One on Impside.
Fun fact: I started out on BC and flew 1000+ matches there. Then I became one of the original 'server hopping weirdos' as BC's GSF scene kind of died down. I've dropped back in at various times, but it's usually pretty difficult to actually get in a match there... and the population that I've run into isn't really well positioned to take on veteran opposition. Still, if there's a time when I'm likely to not have to wait an hour to get a match there, I'd probably stop in. It's great that you're encouraging people there to revitalize the scene. I'd be pleased to see it turn into a competitive destination again.

- Despon