Hello, i am looking to re getting into PvP after returning almost a month ago. since they removed PVP gear and Expertise gear. it leaves me to question.. what are stats that are optimal for PvP i'm unsure if its the same for PvE or what. i would love and appriciate the help!

It depends on the spec you choose and in my case how much lag you have.

Realistically you don't need more than 105% in accuracy when you check your bolstered lvl stats in pvp. If it's higher than that in pvp, then you are wasting other stats.

That just means you have two options, crit and alacrity. Your crit will already be pretty high due to the class and you will get diminished returns faster than other classes when equipping it. The way I set it up for Fury is to have about 200 more crit than alacrity.

Hello, i am looking to re getting into PvP after returning almost a month ago. since they removed PVP gear and Expertise gear. it leaves me to question.. what are stats that are optimal for PvP i'm unsure if its the same for PvE or what. i would love and appriciate the help!

There are some differences in how you would ideally build yourself for PVP as opposed to PVE as well and some spec differences. The difference in the build between PVE and PVP is easy to address [the differences in the specs won't change this aspect] and that it in PVE you want to have 110% accuracy, and in PVP you only want at most 105% accuracy. There is even a school of thought that says you can get by with just 101% accuracy, but I wouldn't personally recommend it. Marauder's do a lot of white damage so you want to minimize the misses on your melee attacks to at least that degree, but no more than 105.

As far as optimal stats are concerned, that will vary somewhat between specs, so without knowing which spec you are I can only speak to generalities. Optimal stats, as it were, are easier to calculate for PVE than for PVP. Generally speaking, I agree with what Icy said for the most part. A couple of power/mastery augs for PVP can be useful, but, I wouldn't use that many, I would recommend more than two.

Crit is the 'big stat', that's the one that catches people by surprise, a few good crits here and there in quick succession with the right attacks and you could potentially bring their health down by half, perhaps even 3/4s if rng is really loving you that day. Even if it's just half though in 3 or 4 seconds, that puts people quickly on the defensive and could make them think better of attacking you again later on. There is no better defense than you not being the target. Fear is your ally =]

For PVP shoot for about 42% crit chance and 70/71 crit multiplier. I run a bit more, but that is just my personal preference. As far as alacrity, all marauder specs benefit from it greatly. The downside is that alacrity tends to yield better results the longer the duration of the fight goes on, and in PVP fights with one person or an individual combat don't tend to last very long. It's a bit of a gamble and for that reason and that reason alone I wouldn't put all your eggs in that basket. On the other hand, speed = atms, atms=higher DPS. There is also the consideration of cool downs. Alacrity doesn't only effect the speed of your attacks, it also effects the speed of DOT ticks and every ability that has a cooldown, it will lesson the cooldown to small degrees, the more alacrity to tack on the shorter the CDs so this is a big benefit as well, brings your DCDs back around for use again that much faster.

I'd recommend the following for the specs, this is not written stone and if you have a little more or a little less it isn't going to make all that much of a difference so these are merely approximations [except for carnage, to follow].

Annihilation - 1600 Alacrity

Fury - 1600 Alacrity

Carnage - 1500 Alacrity [Carnage benefits the most because it helps to insure you will be able to fit more of your highest damaging attacks in your ferocity window more reliably. So why than do the other specs actually call for more alacrity? Because when Carnage uses beserk it gets a +30% bonus to alacrity so that's tacked on top of what you already have from your gear so you still want to meet the suggested value even with the alacrity bonus from beserk]

Bare in mind these are optimal amounts based on highest potential DPS ceilings. They apply more to PVE than PVP. In PVE, even with game mechanics that make you move and can make you have to stop attacking to avoid a AOE damage from a boss for example, in the end, you will have more uptime during a boss fight that you could ever hope to in any single engagement in PVP. Target switches, CC, deaths, escapes, and a million other things make the fighting in PVP much more fluid and ever changing.

That said, you can get away with much lower levels of alacrity than in PVE. It's still important, and it still effects combat, it's just not quite as telling as it is when there is more uptime on a target.

There are different opinions this, and there no definitive right or wrong, but, the considerations listed above do have some baring so you should use that in your consideration of how much alacrity you want to use. There would be nothing wrong with using the recommended values for PVE even in PVP, it certainly wouldn't hurt you, the only consideration would be where that added Alacrity might otherwise be put to another stat for stat allotment. People tend to run higher amounts of crit in PVP than would normally be recommended in PVE for bigger burst potentials, as one bigger hit might make the difference between you or your enemy dropping in a very close fight.

I have more experience with Carnage than I have with the other two specs, but, for Carnage I'd recommend between 1300-1400 alacrity. My experience with the other 2 specs is limited only to PVE, I've never used either one of them in PVP so I don't feel in position to advise you what level for those two specs is most appropriate for PVP. An educated guess would be 1400-1500, but hopefully someone with more experience than myself in those other two specs in PVP can give you a better idea for those specs.

Hope this helps some, best of luck.

Edit: This guy here below has sited the same source as I based my recommendations on. These are optimal stat spread largely intended for PVE, unfortunately no one has taken on a PVP version of the great work done by Bant and his successor. I.E. You'll notice looking that over that it includes in it's stat spread an accuracy allotment that would bring you to 110% accuracy, which you wouldn't want for PVP. Even still the foundations are still sound.

Some genius masterminds already figured this all out for us. the only thing i don't get is why they say sorcs need accuracy, but beyond that, here you go:

GEMINI MK-5, Tier 4: Legendary (248 ilvl)

 

Optimal Stats:

Gear Legend: E = Enhancement or Implant or Earpiece; A = Augment; C = Crystal; Stim = Stim

 

Marauder - Annihilation || Sentinel - Watchman

10336+-284 DPS @ 54.6 APM | 8673 Endurance | 6884 Mastery | 3964 Power

1831 Critical (2xE, 11xA, 2xC) | 1617 Alacrity (7xE) | 759 Accuracy (1xE, 3xA, Stim)

 

Marauder - Carnage || Sentinel - Combat

10150+-299 DPS @ 60.4 APM | 8673 Endurance | 6970 Mastery (2xC) | 3964 Power

1884 Critical (3xE, 10xA) | 1482 Alacrity (6xE, 1xA) | 759 Accuracy (1xE, 3xA, Stim)

 

Marauder - Fury || Sentinel - Concentration

9828+-351 DPS @ 49.8 APM | 8673 Endurance | 6884 Mastery | 3964 Power

1852 Critical (5xE, 4xA, 2xC) | 1596 Alacrity (4xE, 7xA) | 759 Accuracy (1xE, 3xA, Stim)

Some genius masterminds already figured this all out for us. the only thing i don't get is why they say sorcs need accuracy, but beyond that, here you go:

Because those stats are for pve and all dps specs need 110% accuracy for pve.

It depends on the spec you choose and in my case how much lag you have.

Realistically you don't need more than 105% in accuracy when you check your bolstered lvl stats in pvp. If it's higher than that in pvp, then you are wasting other stats.

That just means you have two options, crit and alacrity. Your crit will already be pretty high due to the class and you will get diminished returns faster than other classes when equipping it. The way I set it up for Fury is to have about 200 more crit than alacrity.

Hm... Thanks! It helps

There are some differences in how you would ideally build yourself for PVP as opposed to PVE as well and some spec differences. The difference in the build between PVE and PVP is easy to address [the differences in the specs won't change this aspect] and that it in PVE you want to have 110% accuracy, and in PVP you only want at most 105% accuracy. There is even a school of thought that says you can get by with just 101% accuracy, but I wouldn't personally recommend it. Marauder's do a lot of white damage so you want to minimize the misses on your melee attacks to at least that degree, but no more than 105.

 

As far as optimal stats are concerned, that will vary somewhat between specs, so without knowing which spec you are I can only speak to generalities. Optimal stats, as it were, are easier to calculate for PVE than for PVP. Generally speaking, I agree with what Icy said for the most part. A couple of power/mastery augs for PVP can be useful, but, I wouldn't use that many, I would recommend more than two.

 

Crit is the 'big stat', that's the one that catches people by surprise, a few good crits here and there in quick succession with the right attacks and you could potentially bring their health down by half, perhaps even 3/4s if rng is really loving you that day. Even if it's just half though in 3 or 4 seconds, that puts people quickly on the defensive and could make them think better of attacking you again later on. There is no better defense than you not being the target. Fear is your ally =]

 

For PVP shoot for about 42% crit chance and 70/71 crit multiplier. I run a bit more, but that is just my personal preference. As far as alacrity, all marauder specs benefit from it greatly. The downside is that alacrity tends to yield better results the longer the duration of the fight goes on, and in PVP fights with one person or an individual combat don't tend to last very long. It's a bit of a gamble and for that reason and that reason alone I wouldn't put all your eggs in that basket. On the other hand, speed = atms, atms=higher DPS. There is also the consideration of cool downs. Alacrity doesn't only effect the speed of your attacks, it also effects the speed of DOT ticks and every ability that has a cooldown, it will lesson the cooldown to small degrees, the more alacrity to tack on the shorter the CDs so this is a big benefit as well, brings your DCDs back around for use again that much faster.

 

I'd recommend the following for the specs, this is not written stone and if you have a little more or a little less it isn't going to make all that much of a difference so these are merely approximations [except for carnage, to follow].

 

Annihilation - 1600 Alacrity

Fury - 1600 Alacrity

Carnage - 1500 Alacrity [Carnage benefits the most because it helps to insure you will be able to fit more of your highest damaging attacks in your ferocity window more reliably. So why than do the other specs actually call for more alacrity? Because when Carnage uses beserk it gets a +30% bonus to alacrity so that's tacked on top of what you already have from your gear so you still want to meet the suggested value even with the alacrity bonus from beserk]

 

Bare in mind these are optimal amounts based on highest potential DPS ceilings. They apply more to PVE than PVP. In PVE, even with game mechanics that make you move and can make you have to stop attacking to avoid a AOE damage from a boss for example, in the end, you will have more uptime during a boss fight that you could ever hope to in any single engagement in PVP. Target switches, CC, deaths, escapes, and a million other things make the fighting in PVP much more fluid and ever changing.

 

That said, you can get away with much lower levels of alacrity than in PVE. It's still important, and it still effects combat, it's just not quite as telling as it is when there is more uptime on a target.

 

There are different opinions this, and there no definitive right or wrong, but, the considerations listed above do have some baring so you should use that in your consideration of how much alacrity you want to use. There would be nothing wrong with using the recommended values for PVE even in PVP, it certainly wouldn't hurt you, the only consideration would be where that added Alacrity might otherwise be put to another stat for stat allotment. People tend to run higher amounts of crit in PVP than would normally be recommended in PVE for bigger burst potentials, as one bigger hit might make the difference between you or your enemy dropping in a very close fight.

 

I have more experience with Carnage than I have with the other two specs, but, for Carnage I'd recommend between 1300-1400 alacrity. My experience with the other 2 specs is limited only to PVE, I've never used either one of them in PVP so I don't feel in position to advise you what level for those two specs is most appropriate for PVP. An educated guess would be 1400-1500, but hopefully someone with more experience than myself in those other two specs in PVP can give you a better idea for those specs.

 

Hope this helps some, best of luck.

 

Edit: This guy here below has sited the same source as I based my recommendations on. These are optimal stat spread largely intended for PVE, unfortunately no one has taken on a PVP version of the great work done by Bant and his successor. I.E. You'll notice looking that over that it includes in it's stat spread an accuracy allotment that would bring you to 110% accuracy, which you wouldn't want for PVP. Even still the foundations are still sound.

Very useful information. Thank you. Helps a ton, thank you very much

Some genius masterminds already figured this all out for us. the only thing i don't get is why they say sorcs need accuracy, but beyond that, here you go:

Ive seen this just wasnt sure if it was for PvP too Thank you though <3

Just wanted to add my 2 cents.

I only play Concentration/Fury on my Sentinel so can only talk about that. I have experimented with power and alacrity a bit in ranked and in the end it left me with over 1800 crit and around 1300 alacrity. I went all augments Power etc, but in the end I found that the Crit/Alacrity goes much better. I have found little use for Power augments.

So for Fury/Concentration go with slightly over 105% accuracy and get alacrity to around 1300, rest should be crit, just dont go till 2000 crit, there is no point in that, instead you can then put in some power augments.

Just wanted to add my 2 cents.

 

I only play Concentration/Fury on my Sentinel so can only talk about that. I have experimented with power and alacrity a bit in ranked and in the end it left me with over 1800 crit and around 1300 alacrity. I went all augments Power etc, but in the end I found that the Crit/Alacrity goes much better. I have found little use for Power augments.

 

So for Fury/Concentration go with slightly over 105% accuracy and get alacrity to around 1300, rest should be crit, just dont go till 2000 crit, there is no point in that, instead you can then put in some power augments.

Thanks for picking up where I couldn't. I was hoping you would lend your expertise for Concentration/Fury. =]

I myself find myself at 44% crit, which even that is too high [although, it doesn't hurt! heh], 105% Accuracy, 1350-1400ish alacrity. But, I still have some extra augments with which I run 2 or 3 power augs as Carnage. Not a far cry from your recommendation. Were this PVE, I would run some more Alacrity, but given the limited uptime on pretty much most targets, the value of alacrity while still important, is somewhat less in PVP as Alacrity shows it's best results wherein uptime tends to be greater than you often find in PVP.

Thanks for picking up where I couldn't. I was hoping you would lend your expertise for Concentration/Fury. =]

 

I myself find myself at 44% crit, which even that is too high [although, it doesn't hurt! heh], 105% Accuracy, 1350-1400ish alacrity. But, I still have some extra augments with which I run 2 or 3 power augs as Carnage. Not a far cry from your recommendation. Were this PVE, I would run some more Alacrity, but given the limited uptime on pretty much most targets, the value of alacrity while still important, is somewhat less in PVP as Alacrity shows it's best results wherein uptime tends to be greater than you often find in PVP.

I find that as long as your alacrity is between 200-300 less than your crit, you'll find your own balance based on play style, lag and skill. Just mess around with it till you are comfortable. It's easier to go by that simple formula instead of working out exact numbers because stats change as you get more higher gear. Just remember that too much crit means you miss out on other stats. I also use mastery Augs to balance. They seem better than power now.

It's easier to go by that simple formula instead of working out exact numbers because stats change as you get more higher gear.

Good point. I should have prefaced my recommendations by saying they were based on full 248 BIS gear. Good that you pointed it out, otherwise it's an unobtainable stat spread.

I prefer the power augs myself. The contribution to crit by a mastery aug is extremely small and does not effect crit multiplier, whereas power does grant a bit more damage than mastery augs. Again very minor. I'm already past recommended values for crit, so that's why I opt for power augs. Individual builds contribute to what the better choice may be for a given individual.

What I learned recently in regards to stats from the new Bant is the best thing you can do in PvP is trying to get more stats in general. That is the best way to increase your DPS. Anything after that in regards in training out power/crit/alacrity/mastery is going going to result in a less than 5% DPS difference.

Increase your stat pool is your first priority. In regards to min/maxing make sure you have at least 105% Accuracy. Get around 1800 crit rating (this is the soft cap). If your playing Carnage make sure to have at least 7% Alacrity for ferocity windows. After that just stack mastery over power.

What I learned recently in regards to stats from the new Bant is the best thing you can do in PvP is trying to get more stats in general. That is the best way to increase your DPS. Anything after that in regards in training out power/crit/alacrity/mastery is going going to result in a less than 5% DPS difference.

 

Increase your stat pool is your first priority. In regards to min/maxing make sure you have at least 105% Accuracy. Get around 1800 crit rating (this is the soft cap). If your playing Carnage make sure to have at least 7% Alacrity for ferocity windows. After that just stack mastery over power.

Even in PVP for carnage, I would advise significantly more than 7 %, that's extremely low for Carnage, I would note that unless you have as a bare minimum 1300 in alacrity, you are not going to be able to maximize your ferocity window in light of the addition of the new attack in 5.0 - Gore. These values needed are in addition to the alacrity boost you get from Beserk.

Additionally, alacrity doesn't only increase the amount of attacks you can get into your Ferocity window it also effects every single cooldown you have, lessening cooldown periods. Alacrity will also effect your sustained damage DPS.

It's very easy to see the difference alacrity makes by parsing on a dummy. While dummy parsing isn't an accurate measure of performance in PVP, it does very well illustrate the difference a significant stat difference will make. If you parse on a dummy with 7% alacrity a bit and than parse with 1300 or more alacrity, you will see there is a very noticable difference in DPS output. Dummy parsing will show your damage potentials. For example, you can possibly hit low 10k DPS [10k-10.2k] with 1350-1400 alacrity [14 %ish], you will not hit 10k DPS with 7% alacrity. Hitting 10.3k-10.6k you will need higher amounts of alacrity [16%ish]. With 7% alacrity, you simply will not have the APMs for hitting into those kinds of numbers.

It is true that alacrity in PVP is somewhat less effective than it is in PVE due to shorter uptime periods in PVP, but in the case of carnage you need higher levels of alacrity to increase your chances of maximizing your hardest hitting attacks in your ferocity window. 7% alacrity is far too low for Carnage spec.

That's not to say you won't be able to hit some high numbers with VT, Devistating Blast, Gore, you would still put out good dps [skill level being present] but you won't be able to maximize the damage potential with the ferocity window with such significally low amounts of alacrity.

Whatever your doing with 7% alacrity, you'd be doing more with higher amounts of alacrity.

I do agree though, a proper stat spread is important, but decent levels of alacrity is extremely important to the spec.

 

I do agree though, a proper stat spread is important, but decent levels of alacrity is extremely important to the spec.

This is why I mentioned "at least" and refrained from typing a 300 word essay to a newbie.

This is why I mentioned "at least" and refrained from typing a 300 word essay to a newbie.

Fair enough =]