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Theron Shan working with a dark side outlander?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Theron Shan working with a dark side outlander?

Mythisman's Avatar


Mythisman
05.11.2017 , 10:56 PM | #1
Something that has continually bugged me is that i get how Lana could swing both ways as far as the whole aiding the outlander whether they go light or dark side, but Theron? I get that he's a spy and has done his share of shady stuff, but in almost every instance he reacts very negatively to dark side decisions and seems to have at least some moral code that guides him. If the outlander goes full tyrant emperor, how does it make sense that theron would support him/her?
Spoiler
Thoughts on the matter?

Plk_Lesiak's Avatar


Plk_Lesiak
05.12.2017 , 03:41 AM | #2
Before the end of KotET it was clear: Zakuul had to be stpped and the Alliance was the only power able to do it. After that it's getting more problematic. I'm sure one factor is that he suffered a lot from the Republic and maybe even could fear some kind of persecution if he came back. There are people like Lana in Alliance that he trusts and respects, so he can either believe or even delude himself it can still be a power for positive change. Or at least better than any other place he could go.

My guess is, if the story goes anywhere/if writers care, that if the PC turns into not only a bloodthisty tyrant, but also one that is hell-bent on destroying the Republic, Theron will leave/do something about it. He just didn't reach his breaking point yet or his betrayal is in preperation stages. If the Iokath traitor's identity is player-choice based, he's one of the major candidates.

Celise's Avatar


Celise
05.12.2017 , 06:49 AM | #3
Theron doesn't respond badly to every dark side action, the only example i know of: you can imprison or execute Saresh, either choice Theron enjoys watching, he even mentions with a darkside choice after killing her, that he enjoyed watching that but he should of felt guilty about it but doesn't.

While he maybe a "good" spy which is ambiguous enough by itself, i'm virtually certain that he has commited bad actions like the incident at Ziost and there could be other events. A spy has a number of jobs that must be done besides the sterotypical choices, someone like that learns how to bury those emotions for the right reasons even if it's to take another persons life or destroy an entire village full of people. so while he may appear to dislike your actions it could be a front to make you believe he hates your choices. You can never know with a spy.

Ralei's Avatar


Ralei
05.12.2017 , 12:40 PM | #4
I think you are correct in that Iokath may start to be the tipping point with Theron's allegiance to the Outlander if you're dark. It made sense that he would join you to defeat the galaxy's tyrants (Revan, Emperor, Valkorion, Arcann, Vaylin), but now that YOU can be the tyrant, they're gonna have to figure out what to do with him, which is why he became my number one suspect for the traitor on Iokath.

I don't think Lana betraying a light Outlander works, though. Maybe Theron is just *the* traitor, whether light or dark. It scares me, he's my favorite character left in the Old Republic, I don't want them to assassinate his story like they did Malcom's. I hope it's very well done, or I hope it's nothing to do with him and he finds his own way away from the dark Outlander. I'm not really sure who's in charge of the Republic at this point, maybe he goes back to them to repair the damage Saresh and Malcom did. Or, like you say, maybe he's just broken down and given up doing his own thing and wants to belong to something and stays with the Alliance, his own conscious be damned. Poor wittle Theron.
.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
05.12.2017 , 04:52 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Celise View Post
Theron doesn't respond badly to every dark side action, the only example i know of: you can imprison or execute Saresh, either choice Theron enjoys watching, he even mentions with a darkside choice after killing her, that he enjoyed watching that but he should of felt guilty about it but doesn't.

While he maybe a "good" spy which is ambiguous enough by itself, i'm virtually certain that he has commited bad actions like the incident at Ziost and there could be other events. A spy has a number of jobs that must be done besides the sterotypical choices, someone like that learns how to bury those emotions for the right reasons even if it's to take another persons life or destroy an entire village full of people. so while he may appear to dislike your actions it could be a front to make you believe he hates your choices. You can never know with a spy.
Nothing Theron did in Ziost, was dark side. No, he's not some pure hearted Jedi, but he's an SIS Agent trying to take down the evil Empire as well as stop a evil force presence from returning.

He of course fails.

However, his choices were never dark side choices.

This doesn't mean he can't agree with some dark side choices either, like Saresh. However, let's remember, Saresh is a terrible person. She may have started out wanting a better Republic and an end to the Empire, but she was willing to sacrifice anyone (except herself), screw over anyone (except herself) to get there, because she was also power mad.

However, maybe it's a matter of not reaching his breaking point. Maybe Theron and Lana aren't meant to have breaking points.

I'm a bit inclined to believe the later, not because of the devs themselves, but because of the players.

Lana doesn't seem to the type to leave because of light side. Theron seems like the type to leave because of to many dark side. However, to the player base, this is non factor. History shows, players have a tendency to whine if they think there's to much bias on one side over the other, even when it makes sense.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

Tadagyt's Avatar


Tadagyt
05.12.2017 , 11:08 PM | #6
When you're in the room with the dead alien, my agent said something about using the weapon to annhilate the republic (or something similar). Theron reacted really badly saying something like "That's what I was worried about or what worries me" and the game said "theron Shan will remember that".

So I can see him leaving or betraying her (or at least breaking up with her).
I did try to get him to break up with my agent, so I chose all the worse options ever (like insulting his dead father, and such), but nope, he still said "I love you"

RinjiRenee's Avatar


RinjiRenee
05.12.2017 , 11:31 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Ralei View Post
I think you are correct in that Iokath may start to be the tipping point with Theron's allegiance to the Outlander if you're dark. It made sense that he would join you to defeat the galaxy's tyrants (Revan, Emperor, Valkorion, Arcann, Vaylin), but now that YOU can be the tyrant, they're gonna have to figure out what to do with him, which is why he became my number one suspect for the traitor on Iokath.

I don't think Lana betraying a light Outlander works, though. Maybe Theron is just *the* traitor, whether light or dark. It scares me, he's my favorite character left in the Old Republic, I don't want them to assassinate his story like they did Malcom's. I hope it's very well done, or I hope it's nothing to do with him and he finds his own way away from the dark Outlander. I'm not really sure who's in charge of the Republic at this point, maybe he goes back to them to repair the damage Saresh and Malcom did. Or, like you say, maybe he's just broken down and given up doing his own thing and wants to belong to something and stays with the Alliance, his own conscious be damned. Poor wittle Theron.
Preface: This issue isn't entirely unique for Theron. Vanilla comps (before KOTFE/KOTET of course) were forced to be your ally no matter what, and you could do some really despicable things... Mako and DS Bounty Hunter, for example. KOTFE and KOTET do obviously add more consequence than before, but just saying...

Doesn't make entirely too much sense for Theron to betray a mostly LS Outlander; on the Peacekeeper path, he seems really positive about the Alliance, so it doesn't fit the "marked by anger, hope eroding" bill that Tyth spelled out. The way I see it -- if Theron WAS the traitor, his character that we know would be a complete 100% lie. He gave up his career to see this Alliance work, because he thinks it's the only way to save the galaxy at this point. He seems completely appalled by the superweapons/god droids and what they are capable of... would be weird if he actually made himself the instrument to help wake them up.

It's been my interpretation that Theron has remained with the Alliance because he believes he can do the most good there, and he's also obviously deeply disappointed in Republic leadership. He was let down by Malcom in a huge way, just when the two of them were creating a relationship with one another. Theron staying with the Alliance who is led by a tyrant might be some issue of pride or guilt with him. He has proven himself stubborn once set upon his path, even to disastrous results (see: Ziost).

But yeah, poor Theron's been through a lot. I saw a playthrough with Empress Sith Warrior who sides with Empire AND goes back to romancing Quinn at Iokath just after kissing Theron and it's really THE DARKEST TIMELINE for him... I want to give him all the hugs. If he's not the traitor here (and I really don't think he is, or Lana for that matter), I wonder if BW would have a "critical" moment with him eventually where he finally puts his foot down.

Celise's Avatar


Celise
05.13.2017 , 01:46 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
Nothing Theron did in Ziost, was dark side. No, he's not some pure hearted Jedi, but he's an SIS Agent trying to take down the evil Empire as well as stop a evil force presence from returning.

He of course fails.

However, his choices were never dark side choices.
Let's start from the beginning, he decides to send a group of Jedi to Ziost without the knowledge or approval of his leaders. This means that any actions that comes from this unauthorised mission would be on Theron, so it's a bad choice taken that risks others and their lives, not to mention the risks of being captured, and interrogated for information.

Theron knew there was something going on Ziost but he didn't know exactly what, then he lost contact with Surro and her team, the emperor was using her to further his aims, in effect any action the emperor took on Surro to kill innocent people is all a direct result of Theron sending that team in the first place. That is a Dark side action because he willingly and recklessly risked the lives of others and they and he paid the price when Surro and her team were taken over and started killing people and they themselves were at risk of being killed by your character.

TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
05.14.2017 , 05:55 AM | #9
My Sith inquisitor is a dark sider, and is in love with Theron. Which puts her sometime in a quandry. She's as Machiavellian as they come, and will do whatever is necessary to achieve her own goals. But when Jace dies, she is very warm and comforting to Theron, proving she has a soft side, but she feels the Republic is too and decadent to help the people, but she also plans to crush the Sith overall for a few reasons.

1. Too much infighting.
2. WAAYYY too corrupt
3. Too much sharing of power(gee doesn't this sound like someone, Bane perhaps )

Basically her goals are to crush the sith order and remake it not quite on the rule of 2, but the sith in her order are going to be much more disiplined, a lot less of them and a lot more powerful, almost like Samurai. Other users will become more like the Knights of Zakuul.

That's why my Inquistor loves and needs Theron if she's going to reshape the galaxy.
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Shepardess's Avatar


Shepardess
05.14.2017 , 12:26 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Celise View Post
Let's start from the beginning, he decides to send a group of Jedi to Ziost without the knowledge or approval of his leaders. This means that any actions that comes from this unauthorised mission would be on Theron, so it's a bad choice taken that risks others and their lives, not to mention the risks of being captured, and interrogated for information.

Theron knew there was something going on Ziost but he didn't know exactly what, then he lost contact with Surro and her team, the emperor was using her to further his aims, in effect any action the emperor took on Surro to kill innocent people is all a direct result of Theron sending that team in the first place. That is a Dark side action because he willingly and recklessly risked the lives of others and they and he paid the price when Surro and her team were taken over and started killing people and they themselves were at risk of being killed by your character.
He heard about something going on on Ziost and sent a team to check it out. Hardly a DS option o.O

Just because the results ended up the way they did doesn't mean he had bad or callous intentions.