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Pubs, please, stop whining, start winning

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Pubs, please, stop whining, start winning

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
04.26.2017 , 11:35 PM | #101
Quote: Originally Posted by Mikeieveli View Post
I know people think damage, protection, and healing are all that make up PvP, but the truth is there is so much more. .
I couldn't agree more.

It's all about how many people you kill.

Izariel's Avatar


Izariel
04.27.2017 , 12:09 PM | #102
It is a known fact that Imps are better geared for PVP, they have more people that pvp on a regular basis and have more skilled pvp players. There is little skill involved when you get hit with damage 10X more than you can produce. Little skill indeed.

Stellarcrusade's Avatar


Stellarcrusade
04.27.2017 , 02:21 PM | #103
Quote: Originally Posted by Izariel View Post
It is a known fact that Imps are better geared for PVP, they have more people that pvp on a regular basis and have more skilled pvp players. There is little skill involved when you get hit with damage 10X more than you can produce. Little skill indeed.
Not to mention when an entire faction is much better geared, most wars the TOTAL gearing of one side is GREATLY less than the total gearing of the other side. People like to think about the difference between 1 player with bolstered gear versus 1 BiS player and do simple math in their head to convince themselves its not a big difference. But 8v8's are nothing like 1v1 duals. In an 8v8 your mini groups are facing other mini groups. The sum gear of your group versus the sum gear of theirs. It is a much bigger difference than a 1v1. Then what happens is the much weaker team is always respawning, so then you have a much better geared team always on the field of battle in full force against a smattering of single file weaker geared players. The war ends up being a series of skirmishes of things like 2 undergeared players versus 6 VERY geared players.

That's why a seemingly harmless bolster to BiS value is MUCH BIGGER in group battles. Ultimately they have to fix it, or 6.0 will be the next chance for the return of top level PvP.

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
04.27.2017 , 03:14 PM | #104
Quote: Originally Posted by Izariel View Post
It is a known fact that Imps are better geared for PVP, they have more people that pvp on a regular basis and have more skilled pvp players. There is little skill involved when you get hit with damage 10X more than you can produce. Little skill indeed.
Yeah, you keep thinking that's why heh.

And by what scientific method was this study conducted that has confirmed scientifically that Imps are always bettered geared for PVP than pubs? What periodical Journal would I find this confirmed fact in? Perhaps you could site the name of Scientist in charge who recieved his doctorate in gearing practices in onlime MMOs.

Dr. Seuss, perhaps? Dr. Dre? Dr. McCoy?

What was your excuse the 6 years prior to 5.0?

Pubs have the same opportunity to advance their characters as Imps do.

You may be on a dead server, but thats not about imp or pub, thats just less people and effects both factions. There is no question population wise there are more Imps than Pubs. That's pretty common knowledge. But you don't need 100s of people to do warzones, you need 16. Everyone has to do that same exact things to gear regardless of faction. The classes are virtually exactly the same and require the same sort of things to get skilled at playing them. You don't need anyone to learn and master a rotation. Additionally, legacy gear still works.

On the shadowlands we fight Reps most days. They have PVP guilds, they run premades [one even runs double premades often] and they do pretty damn well because they load the deck in thier favor. That's not cheating, but it does matter a great deal in outcomes. They have just as good of gear as we do and we don't always beat them [more often than not we do tho, I mean they're slimey pubs after all].

The thing is, when we do lose to pubs, most of the time it is simply because they were more on the spot with objectives, but even when they win we still gave them more black eyes than they gave us. Pubs tend to care more about winning, Imps tend to care more about ripping Pubs' heads off.

You pubs are better at objectives, but worse at fighting. [That's what happens when you take fighting lessons from Mon Mothma].

Of course it's going to take someone longer to gear who is earning less UCs due to losing matches than those that win them. And if you are losing more than maybe, just maybe,. it's because you are just not quite as good as those you are losing to. {But that's a subjective consideration given the effects of the massive class imbalances in the game right now]]

The gear disparities effect everyone and there are plenty of Imps having a hard time gearing as well. is there are difference between being geared 236/242 and 242/248? Yes, of course there is, but not by all that much. Skill has, and always will be able to over come gear differences of the types we are seeing in end game PVP.

Walking around pretending like every Imp is in full 248s and every Pub is in 236 is not only not true it's also sometimes the other way around.

The greatest disparity from gear differences is health. Someone in full 248s may have 6000 more health than the enemy they are fighting, and sure, that's a difference, no doubt about it, but that difference is one more basic attack.

And lets call a spade a spade here, with the amount of Mercs, Snipers and corruption sorcs running around it's kinda silly worrying about gear imbalances that are in the 10% range, when you have class imbalances that that are playing havok with how things play out. You can have an entire group in full 248s made up of maras, Operatives, Assassins DPS sorcs and PTs, and a group full in 208s made up of mercs, snipers, and corruption sorcs, and 9/10 the group in 208s is gonna win.

Those are the real imbalances that any change to bolster still will not fix.

Gear might give you an edge but only if the opponent you are fighting is not more skilled than you.

Imps/Pubs, same game, same rules, same classes, same rotations, same damage ranges, same gearing system, same operations, same warzones. Excuses doesn't change that.

You wanna know the real reason that Imps tend to beat Pubs?

The Darkside is more powerful than the lightside. Yoda lied to you =]

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
04.27.2017 , 03:22 PM | #105
Quote: Originally Posted by Stellarcrusade View Post
I've seen this at times also. The greatly superior imp team gets 5 times the kills as the other side but lets them win. This may be the new norm, the imp/pub gear imbalance is so pathetic, at least let them have wins for being punching bags, give them something or they never queue again maybe is the thinking.
All pubs must die.

Markark's Avatar


Markark
05.02.2017 , 09:11 AM | #106
I frequently win matches where Imps double our damage & kills when we're able to play rope a dope, lure them away from objectives or ball carriers, so no, Kills aren't a measure any more than damage is, excepting 4v4/ranked.

Coordination is what matters.

That said, heals ARE an issue, solely for the fact that even if you can "rope" the opponent away from objectives, the length of time you keep them away is almost always determined by heals.

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
05.02.2017 , 05:17 PM | #107
Quote: Originally Posted by Markark View Post
I frequently win matches where Imps double our damage & kills when we're able to play rope a dope, lure them away from objectives or ball carriers, so no, Kills aren't a measure any more than damage is, excepting 4v4/ranked.

Coordination is what matters.
No denying that logic. I guess Imps are just more inclined to death matching. Downside to that is less UCs. Upside is you can still have a blast even if you lose.

I do think pubs are better at objectives, but they do tend get their asses kicked quite a bit along the way =p

The irony is that I've seen quite a few people express the view that there is a big gear gap between Imps and pubs [In the Imp's favor], but I'm not sure how that fits in with kills/damage not being a measure standard than. If pubs are better at objectives and kills and damage don't matter as much as coordination, pubs should be the ones winning more. More wins, more UCs, more UCs than Imps and thus have better gear faster than them.

Just a thought to ponder.

Cherepk's Avatar


Cherepk
05.03.2017 , 08:34 AM | #108
I personally prefer pub characters, but life as a pub in pvp is downhill battle.

We all know that for most the way they designed imps, imps spells effects , some gear etc. are more attractive to a player than pub. And being dark is something that majority like.

It seems that pub population dying out especially in PVP more people re-rolling imps and that is not very healthy for game in many ways. But bioware instead of combining sides to play along each other in all solo/wz spent time on creating new quests.

I personally always loved my sage. Now on top that sages are quite bad in PVP i have to deal with pubs loosing majority of wz. I tried imp but i prefer pub, so for then its either play downhill battle or quit. With variety of so many games i rather quit.

Markark's Avatar


Markark
09.17.2017 , 02:20 PM | #109
Things that cause PvP losses:

~ Staying in the opponents group AT their cap, spamming AOE damage to beef your numbers instead of kiting/luring them away from the cap to allow team mates to stealth in & cap....inversely, getting lured away from your own cap, allowing them in to take it.

~ A single tank or DPS running off to to East or Snow with a pocket healer, leaving the group @ south/mid with no healer.....then informing the group they blew it because their DPS was so low.

IMO, the single biggest problem, aside awful healer/tank imbalances in PvP queues, is DPS obsession with numbers - any caveman can stand in a group and hammer AOE's to get their numbers up, then blame the group's "low DPS" after losing, but if you do nothing to help your group with objectives, it was your obsession with tunnel vision DPS that cost your group the game.

DavidAtkinson's Avatar


DavidAtkinson
09.17.2017 , 02:30 PM | #110
Quote: Originally Posted by Markark View Post
Things that cause PvP losses:

~ Staying in the opponents group AT their cap, spamming AOE damage to beef your numbers instead of kiting/luring them away from the cap to allow team mates to stealth in & cap....inversely, getting lured away from your own cap, allowing them in to take it.

~ A single tank or DPS running off to to East or Snow with a pocket healer, leaving the group @ south/mid with no healer.....then informing the group they blew it because their DPS was so low.

IMO, the single biggest problem, aside awful healer/tank imbalances in PvP queues, is DPS obsession with numbers - any caveman can stand in a group and hammer AOE's to get their numbers up, then blame the group's "low DPS" after losing, but if you do nothing to help your group with objectives, it was your obsession with tunnel vision DPS that cost your group the game.
I admit that I am guilty of obessing with numbers... I am usually the guy who always try to lure enemy away by trolling and attacking their pylon for an eventual ninja, but this always gets me low dps numbers on the board. as I am not mid with theh group hammering my aoe. and sadly got some very bad comments on few occasions.