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3.3 and why it was patched in (Devs and Musco should read since they forgot)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
3.3 and why it was patched in (Devs and Musco should read since they forgot)

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
01.27.2017 , 01:55 PM | #1
Just going to post this here, I posted it in the PVP section also. Thanks to Aceite for finding the 3.3 patch notes.

http://www.swtor.com/blog/pvp-econom...ame-update-3.3

Below is what was written by SWTOR devs regarding 3.3

Quote:
Community News
06.01.2015

PvP Economy and Ranked Rewards Restructure for Game Update 3.3

Hello PvPers! As some of you may have heard on the Bad Feeling Podcast, we are making a few changes to Warzones and Ranked Warzone Arenas. Alex covered several of these changes in the interview but for clarity, and as an official jumping-off point for discussion, we wanted to go over the changes and the reasoning behind them here. Please feel free to join us in the discussion thread linked below. Let’s get started!

PvP Gear Cost

We think that getting a full set of PvP gear is too much of a grind. This is so much the case that only about 2% of PvP players have a full Dark Reaver set. Having at least Exhumed gear is a barrier to entry to being successful in PvP for the majority of players, so we looked to reduce the time and cost of getting there. We have reduced the entry PvP gear costs by roughly a third, and a full set (not min/maxed) will now cost about 4075 Warzone Commendations. For the Dark Reaver/Ranked set we didn’t reduce the price as much, but Ranked Warzone Comms will no longer be used to buy them; pieces will now be purchased with Warzone Comms and the previous tier gear piece. (Ranked Warzone Comms have been removed from the game, but we’ll touch on that more in the Ranked Reward changes found below.) A full Ranked Gear set will now cost about 16,525 Warzone Comms, much less than the current price of around 29,000 Ranked Comms. The exact prices are still being finalized, but this is the spirit and intent of the changes to PvP gear prices that you'll be seeing. In addition, the character cap for Warzone Comms will be raised to 200,000 and the Daily/Weekly Missions will have increased Credit rewards. These changes will make it easier and faster to gear up and get to a competitive level in PvP. Our hope is that the reduced grind makes for a more enjoyable Warzone experience.
Increased Warzone Rewards

We found that the Warzone Experience and Credit rewards were not keeping up with the rest of the game, so we'll be giving them both a boost. Players can expect to receive double the XP and double the Credits for a completed match.

Legacy Lockbox

When we fixed the unintended ability to transfer Warzone Comms to other characters within a Legacy, we got lots of feedback from players requesting a legitimate way to make those transfers. After some discussion, we have come up with a solution: Warzone Commendation Legacy Lockboxes. Each PvP Items vendor (on either Fleet), will begin selling a Warzone Commendation Legacy Lockbox that can be purchased for 99 Warzone Comms and will contain 99 Warzone Comms. The Lockbox can be transferred between Legacy characters.

Ranked Reward system

The current Ranked Warzone reward system indirectly promotes players to stop queueing after they have gotten to the tier that they feel they will end up at for the Season, which lowers the amount of people who participate for the duration of the season. To combat this we wanted to give reasons to queue for the entire season without implementing something draconian-esc as rewards for playing each day of the season. We have come up with a system that we feel gives players a reason to play all season long and keep the Ranked population competitive and having fun.

Ranked players will no longer receive specific item rewards at the end of the season for reaching a certain rating in a Ranked Season. Instead, players will be granted a number of Season-specific tokens based on the tier of rating the player achieved. These tokens will be used to purchase the ranked rewards the player wants after the season has ended. For example, if you don’t like the Silver tier title, the Bronze tier title can be purchased instead for less tokens. In addition to receiving a large amount of Season-specific Tokens at the end of the season based on the tier placed (enough to buy the entire tier of rewards), players will now receive these season-specific tokens for every match they play based on match outcome and performance medals. A player that wins the match with max medals gets a larger amount of Comms than a player that gets the minimum number of medals and loses, at roughly a 1:18 ratio. We believe that this system of awarding Comms based on performance of the team and the individual will create a distinction between just playing and playing well.

The intention here is to encourage players to be engaged over the length of the season and continually attempt to improve and compete at a higher skill level. The better you are and the more you play, the more rewards you will be able to purchase. Since highly skilled players can still play the minimum number of games and earn the Gold tier rewards at the end of the Season, we feel this is the best of both worlds of rewarding both skill and time investment.

End of Season Rewards will be available for purchase from a vendor in the Combat Training area of each fleet for the entirety of the following Season. For example, Season 6 rewards will be available during Season 7 and will be removed from the vendor when Season 8 starts. If you have unused Season tokens they will be converted automatically into Warzone Comms when they can no longer be redeemed for Season Rewards. This gives players a large window to purchase the Season-specific rewards and still get something back from leftover, unspent Tokens.

In addition, there is at least one Reward per tier that is exclusive to the tier (cannot be purchased) so you can still show off that you earned the Reward based on skill alone.

As a few examples of the participation level needed for the Gold tier mount, a player who does not place in Bronze or above would need to play more than 60 games per week for the entire season at a 50% win rate, earning max medals each match, while completing every daily and weekly to purchase the mount (but if they lost every game and got the minimum number of medals it would take about 5000 games in a season to accrue the Comms needed). This gets easier for players that place in rating tiers, but a Silver rated player would still need to play more than 18 games a week, winning half their games, achieving max medals each match, completing every daily and weekly for the entire season while not purchasing any other rewards to afford the mount. These numbers are ballpark but we feel that they have a good balance between being physically obtainable so players will feel like they have the ability to achieve them, while still being a significant challenge and investment.

One more note, Top 96 players will be rewarded enough Season-specific Comms to purchase every reward for the season, in addition to their exclusive reward. They are the cream of the crop and have earned it.
Miscellaneous PvP Changes

There will be two other small changes to PvP in Game Update 3.3, one for regular Warzones and the other for Ranked.

In Warzones, capturing an objective (on Alderaan or Voidstar, for example) will no longer be interrupted by AoE effects. This change should reduce the stagnation on objectives and allow for more diverse defensive strategies.

In Ranked Warzones, in order for a character to enter the queue they will need to be wearing gear that gives them max expertise. This will prevent inexperienced players, who may not be ready for Ranked play, from entering the queue until they have the appropriate gear.

We hope you enjoy these PvP changes and look forward to your feedback!

The SWTOR Combat Team
Essentially what Snave and others are pointing out is that the grind should not be frontloaded for gears as it is.

In 3.3, they understood this and even talk in length on why they made the early sets of PVP gears easier to get.

They said to get the dark reaver set, yes it would take longer but at least with the entry level gear set it would be easy for players to get their foot in the door and participate without too large of a gear gap between themselves and those in top tier PVP gears.

I just want to know, how in 2 years time a dev team goes from being logical to totally illogical regarding gearing?

3.3 also included more options to move accrued comms through legacy making it so the players had more freedom and choices with how they spent their winnings, essentially enabling them to gear their alts easier.

All of the fun aspects of the gearing system have been stripped away and replaced with a very inconsistent gearing system relying on RNG and a heavy grind mechanic now.

This is stupid, and an awful direction to take the game. Period. This company knows it too.

Just 2 years ago they patched in huge changes at the time to make the gearing system better, yet now they revert back to a system they themselves removed due to being too grindy!
_________________________________________________
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"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing." - Socrates

Sportiva's Avatar


Sportiva
01.27.2017 , 02:01 PM | #2
Passion vs. apathy
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Bristol's Avatar


Bristol
01.27.2017 , 02:09 PM | #3
Well researched and well said...
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Wayshuba's Avatar


Wayshuba
01.27.2017 , 02:14 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot View Post
Just going to post this here, I posted it in the PVP section also. Thanks to Aceite for finding the 3.3 patch notes.

http://www.swtor.com/blog/pvp-econom...ame-update-3.3

Below is what was written by SWTOR devs regarding 3.3



Essentially what Snave and others are pointing out is that the grind should not be frontloaded for gears as it is.

In 3.3, they understood this and even talk in length on why they made the early sets of PVP gears easier to get.

They said to get the dark reaver set, yes it would take longer but at least with the entry level gear set it would be easy for players to get their foot in the door and participate without too large of a gear gap between themselves and those in top tier PVP gears.

I just want to know, how in 2 years time a dev team goes from being logical to totally illogical regarding gearing?

3.3 also included more options to move accrued comms through legacy making it so the players had more freedom and choices with how they spent their winnings, essentially enabling them to gear their alts easier.

All of the fun aspects of the gearing system have been stripped away and replaced with a very inconsistent gearing system relying on RNG and a heavy grind mechanic now.

This is stupid, and an awful direction to take the game. Period. This company knows it too.

Just 2 years ago they patched in huge changes at the time to make the gearing system better, yet now they revert back to a system they themselves removed due to being too grindy!
Um, they got a new Producer in August just before 4.0 in December. He's the same guy that told use "RNG was exciting"
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Jedi Master Yoda

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DanNV's Avatar


DanNV
01.27.2017 , 02:24 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Wayshuba View Post
Um, they got a new Producer in August just before 4.0 in December. He's the same guy that told use "RNG was exciting"
Yeah, that was my thought, too.
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
Devs gambled everything on GC RNG, but they didn't even get green loot.
REGULATORS

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
01.27.2017 , 02:38 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Sportiva View Post
Passion vs. apathy
Let's hope not.
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Evlas Danico Innervates Fairfield Overpowered-pt

"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing." - Socrates

teclado's Avatar


teclado
01.27.2017 , 03:02 PM | #7
Well done, Lhance.

They can't have forgotten. I went over my theory in the pvp forums. TL;DR is that the aim with 5.0 is to retain subscribers via the "carrot on a stick" approach. They went back on what they did in 3.3 because they figured that they were losing subscribers due to players gearing too quickly. Once players are geared, many lose interest, stop playing, and cancel subs. I'm in no position to debate that since I don't have the data that BW does. If this is what they believe, I'm inclined to trust them on this.

Some of us geared 10+ characters. We never lost interest or ran out of stuff to do. Others just play 1-2 characters, geared quickly, got bored, lamented about the lack of new MMO content (understandably), and quit.

I think it was a mistake to get rid of pvp gear. Were it up to me, I would revert the pvp gearing to basically how it was in 4.0: bring back expertise (so that best pve gear cannot be earned via pvp), drastically slash the time it takes to get pvp gear (remember 3.3), add cosmetic rewards purchasable via Unassembled Components and Command Tokens (throwing a bone to PVE / solo players here). The "carrots" should be stuff like unique mounts, weapons, titles, pets, decos that people can get via currency earned from all ingame activities. You can adjust the cost of these things to keep players going. Just don't make gear be the carrot in PvP.

For PVE gearing, yeah the EV / KP dropping 224 gear was over the top. Dial that back and then you might keep your raiders around a little bit longer, except for the hardcore ones who wanted new operations.

PVE is about gearing and progression. I don't think PvP should be that way. Tying the two together is not wise, IMO.
SS
Malovo - Marauder

ShinDoRai's Avatar


ShinDoRai
01.27.2017 , 03:11 PM | #8
have you noticed this only now.
that buggs my since the game launched.
while other gamecompanys/devs implement things and test them on the long terms befor releasing,
buy-o-ware only throws elemnts in without finetuning or testing.
then they tune around it in the hole cycle. instead of thinking through and adjusting befor they throw it online and do fixes.
and THIS happen since release of 1.0

they dont think it through, and guess why the community is so full of rage and hatred.
but now we know why. they change their devs team more than once in a year. there is no point in anything they do, only implementing parts without testing or thought out in long terms..
thats why we always get ultra nerfs instead of adjusting in a soft ways.

- implementing
- alpha testing ( early access )
- finetuneing ( beta testers all get access )
- tuning till it fits
- next DLC
- rinse repeat!

or why ya thinking they removed the bugg reports from their hp. so nobody could hate on this corner of the forums

we let them get away with it since start, so why should they change anything.
and while they need to fix their **** the hole cycle between addons, they dont have time to create new stuff.
isnt this obvious enough
unterschätz mich ruhig, umso lustiger wird's für mich.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esbI1...eature=related

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
01.27.2017 , 03:34 PM | #9
Total 180' turn in attitude. Which means when those same people get on a live stream and pretend to be really excited about RNG and say they really care about the players experience, you know it's complete crap and an outright lie.

All they are doing is following the agenda of one new person at the top of the food chain. That person is ruining the game and needs to be replaced.

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
01.27.2017 , 03:42 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by teclado View Post

PVE is about gearing and progression. I don't think PvP should be that way.
It's pretty clear they put no thought into it.

Obviously lesser geared players will be at a disadvantage in PVP, but not only that; the grind to get gear sets is so slow it's not fulfilling enough to keep you interested in doing it.

The RNG only adds frustration. RNG is discouraging. RNG is not encouraging.

It's like having to walk 100 miles to a slot machine that MIGHT win you a thousand dollars, but then again you might win nothing. How many times are you going to walk 100 miles and win nothing before you just give up? Probably not very many.

Quote: Originally Posted by Wayshuba View Post
Um, they got a new Producer in August just before 4.0 in December. He's the same guy that told use "RNG was exciting"
I don't know how much dev control a producer has, but even if this guy is new there's no excuse to basically take advanced dev work that was done on the gearing system for the past 2 years and implement the very same type of gear grind system that was running prior to 3.3 which was phased out 2 years ago.

You'd think a new producer would have done some research on what changes were made in the past already, and known better than to make huge gamebreaking changes that essentially reverted the game back to an archaic state that had proven itself unsuccessful and extremely unpopular.

If this is the case, it's sad and pathetic that someone would have that much control over the development of the game costing resources/money, time, and energy from a dev team that has proven capable of improving the state of this game.

I have to admit, I have seen games that took a turn for the worst, and eventually died due to their mishandling of the game.

That being said, I have never seen a game put dev work into changing an awful gearing system then literally a couple years later spend tons of time and resources going back to using the exact same type of awful gearing system that was removed.
_________________________________________________
Evlas Danico Innervates Fairfield Overpowered-pt

"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing." - Socrates