First off, not Eternal. The Commander isn't immortal and so the Alliance will essentially die with them. But mostly, just stop with the Eternal crap. Everything cant be eternal. It doesn't make any sense. Less sense than Koth's randomly applied loyalty to Zakuul's supreme nutcase and the perfectly boring population of his pointless and conveniently advanced planet. Oh by the way, this is a rant.

 

Granted Valkorian would never even imagine an option where NO ONE sits on the ET, but seriously? has no one else thought "Hey why not just have the fleet self destruct? Problem solved and i don't have to babysit it."

 

It's not like that is an impossible idea, not one a power crazed pseudo-god would think of but still.

 

Speaking of, so the EF trashed all these worlds back in the day right? Well how come they never clashed with the Infinite Empire? Or the Celestials. Or the Gree. This is a non-canon game after all. (thanks Disney, you suck by the way.) So non of these all powerful civilizations ever encountered this apparently unstoppable force. But some backwater warlord managed to capture one of their ships and use it against them. Sure.

 

if you played the Warrior and Inquisitor Stories, there is some indication that Vitiate, had his own thing going on, outside the Sith Empire. And that it was heavily alien tech based. But this whole second empire thing is still really dumb. I mean he at the very least believes he is a god. and then of course he does really random stuff that more or less contradicts everything he says about himself. so maybe he is a god, just not a very good one.

 

On to my favorite topic of companion rage, Koth.

 

This guy is the token everything for 2 expansions. He is so incredibly annoying and incompetent, that you forget hes also some kind of super agent, but hes also completely pointless. Apparently they wanted me to hate someone more than Skadge. And impressively they succeeded.

 

A list then.

 

Worships the emperor. Like super hard, devoid of reason or conscience.

never actually listens to anything anyone else says. ever.

Seems to think the Gravestone is his. I still have no idea at what point he came to that conclusion.

Really, Really, Really wants Arcann gone. Dead. Donezo. Won't actually help you do it. Ever.

Is apparently competent to install a quantum bomb, but too stupid to consider how that might result in the total destruction of "his" ship.

Is utterly and completely surprised when, after telling him about a hundred times that you are going to kill him, you actually kill him. like what is that about? Did he think i was kidding?

 

I LOVE this game, its Star Wars. or it was. Not so much these days.

 

The force is not Light and Dark huh? Well that's interesting, non-canon SW story lets look at the other times thats been tried in the Legends (god i hate myself for even using that term) EU...

 

Mostly Jacen Solo became Caedus. The most pointless and stupid excuse to make three separate multi-book series in the old EU. Its dumb, and contradicts what made SW great in the first place.

 

And even Valky don't buy it for reals!!!

 

He's just lying to get what he wants cause he's a stupid old man who wants to be god.

 

if i think of anything else ill add it later.

 

if you read to this point, your either a huge nerd, or your a masochist.

 

EDIT

 

I FORGOT ABOUT VAYLIN

 

Not really, but i forgot to rant about her. From the get go, and i mean from when Lana rescues you from Carbonite, Vaylin is refered to by all NPC's with this kind of primal dread. But when you meet her it turns out she is basically just a child throwing a temper tantrum. So in order to convince us that she is indeed far too powerful to face alone, we are dragged through all sorts of nonesense. Regardless when we ultimately get to face her we discover that she does in fact have a supreme power. I call it force whining. and it has defeated my will to play with sound on.

 

otherwise, shes not anything special.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Airen_Fett
VAYLIN

I'm an eternal nerd

Nice. Very Nice.

The entire KOTFE/KOTET story went WAY off the rails as far as SW is concerned. And it left them painted into a corner unless they intend to just turn the game off in the next year or so.

well yeah, unless you know, space magic...

The entire KOTFE/KOTET story went WAY off the rails as far as SW is concerned. And it left them painted into a corner unless they intend to just turn the game off in the next year or so.

This is the only thing that makes any sense to me tbh...there's just no other reason for them to have done 5.0 as poorly as they did. You couldn't screw it up this badly unless you were literally trying.

This is the only thing that makes any sense to me tbh...there's just no other reason for them to have done 5.0 as poorly as they did. You couldn't screw it up this badly unless you were literally trying.

 

Maybe they're planning on having a new content be 4 man content.

 

Chapter X-XVI will be Uprising based and only one player will get credit each time.

 

That's one way to stagger it right?

That or it's a desperate attempt to get Disney to add them to the canon (for them benjamins yo). I mean that could explain pretty much everything from the incompetent storytelling to the irrational gameplay changes. If you want to be part of the Disney SW universe you have to confuse, alienate and all around Enrage your primary fan base. Thems the rules.

 

Also, putting Arcann back on the throne, would have been a hilarious, if nonsensical option.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Airen_Fett

If I thought the creative team gave a damn I would likewise go through the many many plot holes that Kotfe and Kotet created. However if they can't see the mess they wrote made little or no sense then it pointing it out will probably not help.

 

Without a doubt the worst though was Valky Sue. It seems to be such a mess of a retcon gibberish its hard to even work out how it made it into the game. This is a Pureblood Sith who spent 1000 years building the Sith Empire, where he was worshiped as a God and all feared his power. He sent Revan and Malik to invade the Republic so 300 years ago. Then he completed his fleet and invaded, then controlled half the galaxy more or less, had a master plan to wipe out all life in the galaxy, sending his children out among the republic etc etc. Was imprisoned on Voss etc etc and finally defeated by a Jedi and his droid.

 

All agreed he was dead... But he wasn't dead not of realz. Death on Yavin brought him back which everyone agreed was a bad idea as he was utterly insane and would wipe out all life in the Galaxy much as he did on Ziost. BUT WAIT....

 

It turns out 300 years ago or so he took control of some Zakuul warrior, who he would use to forge the eternal empire. Except we have seen Valkorian age as he children grew, he can't be 300 years old. But lets forget that. This back water just happens to have a eternal fleet that is better than anything in the galaxy. But Valky Sue doesn't use it to support the Empire because his given up on them... BUT why lead them to war.... why sign a peace treaty if you don't care. You then have 3 kids... BUT you want to wipe out all life in the galaxy and be a god. That would have killed them, so why raise them as warriors. Why didn't Valky come to Voss to free the Voice, why did everyone think he was dead, why didn't Valky send an army of slaves to Yavin to complete the ritural. For that matter why did we stop Revan who wanted to kill the Sith Emperor and feel we had won when we stopped him having a body when he had Valkorian's body all along what the hell did he need to do stuff on Yavin for. If he had a body in Valkorian why did he need to wipe out all life on Ziost. Why did he then send the eternal empire to invade the empire and republic, he didn't need to scout their defenses he controlled one of the factions and had his children through out the republic. And if he had this incredibly fleet and army and wanted to invade why did he wait. We never did find out why he didn't use the fleet.

 

So it leaves us with a Mistake has been Made but by who. In game I have no clue, but if this was a 4th wall thing I'd suggest anyone that thought making the Sith Emperor Valky Sue was where the first mistake was made.

The entire KOTFE/KOTET story went WAY off the rails as far as SW is concerned.

Agreed.

Going through close to a dozen playthroughs getting my alts through KOTFE and eventually KOTET (only one so far). After the second time I've literally just started improvising my own dialogue in my head and ignore what anyone is saying, or adding better lines around the dialogue. Takes a lot of mental gymnastics to make it make sense, but it's more interesting, and has fewer plot holes and eye-rolling story beats. If I just took the original story at face value I'd never have been able to make it through more than the second playthrough.

The Infinite Empire was never all that big(tiny fraction of the size of either empire or republic IIRC). Idk if Gree get into fights with people. For all we know, whoever built Iokath and the Eternal Fleet could've run into conflict with them, but there's a good chance they just never ran into each other or were not significant at the same time.

No, tell us how you really feel.

 

In seriousness though I agree with some parts of your post and though I did find some enjoyment playing through FE/ET the first few times (mainly trying out LS choices vs. DS vs. keeping people alive and killing them), I now look back at the story with somewhat of a bitter after taste.

 

None of my characters want anything to do with this Eternal Throne or the poor idiots of Zakuul. Even my wholesome goodie two-shoes Jedi is like "Yeah, pass. Arcann, Vaylin and Valkorion are defeated so I'm done.". Unfortunately by now, my Jedi is also fully disappointed with the Republic she used to serve given the way they've treated her ever since she went 'missing' and haven't once made a single effort to assist in the war effort against Zakuul not even after the 'Outlander's' identity was uncovered. 'Hero of Tython', 'Jedi Battlemaster', a Knight who's faced the Emperor several times over, who prevented an assault on Tython when Angral was being a little shyte, who took down Malgus after Ilum, dealt with the Revanites and Revan and after all that the Republic is just like "eh, you're nobody to us now have fun fighting Arcann but don't expect us to lift a finger for your nobody as.s". It just blows and that's just one of my gripes with the whole Zakuul/Eternal crap pile story that has me bothered... sigh.

This was horrible actually, I won't bring myself around do to a second playthrough of this mess. All the bad started with the fact that I'm with an inquisitor and you know she likes the sith empire, she actually is a goddamn dark council member. Multiple times during kotfe many characters said that I don't care about the eternal empire or the eternal fleet because you know, I don't. I just want to get back to lead my goddamn sith empire to defeat the cursed republic. Oh and of course kill valkorion and everyone he ever loved. But ofc since they went with this stupid 'the two sides needs to unite to defeat a more powerfull enemy' that can't happen. Back when in episode i dunno 4 there was a reply- let me go back to defeat acina so I can rule the empire- that was the goal of my character all along. I hoped after all the plotholes valky caused with his second empire- I mean you have to give it to the guy he escaped the republics genocide against the sith and built not one but two empires in secret..- I can finally go back to Kaas city and get myself an imperial throne. But no. Not just THAT no, but there wasn't even one *********** comment from my character (during the Dromund Kaas chapter) that she missed home or I don't know. I was a *********** dark council member ffs! And don't even let me start on how stupid this 'Eternal Alliance' name is. Back after goddamn Ziost- about which I'm still angry about because they practically destroyed a planet without any reason- I mean valky clearly had a host so why did he murder the planet?- they should've just released ANYTHING ELSE to finish of the Emperor, take the throne and make dlcs about the war with the republic. But this? This is horrible. I'm so goddamn mad I think I'll never care about SWTOR stories after this (I'm the guy who plays this game only for the story) and after the shenanigans with Mass Effect Andromeda, I will never be able to trust Bioware again. I can't believe this company made goddamn SWKOTOR. This is pathetic. Also to be clear me being mad isn't really about not getting the story I wanted but more because the story we got didn't make any goddamn sense from multiple points of view, not to mention this doesn't fit into the real canon- the EU that is, but not even to the ****** half assed disney canon.

This Vitiate is not the true emperor, he is a fragment, like Revan reborn.

Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

They should have stuck with stuff we already had ie Mandalorians,Sith,Hutts etc,I really don't like the whole Eternal Empire,it has nothing Star Wars about it.Just a complete waste of time.

First off, not Eternal. The Commander isn't immortal and so the Alliance will essentially die with them. But mostly, just stop with the Eternal crap. Everything cant be eternal. It doesn't make any sense. Less sense than Koth's randomly applied loyalty to Zakuul's supreme nutcase and the perfectly boring population of his pointless and conveniently advanced planet. Oh by the way, this is a rant.

 

Granted Valkorian would never even imagine an option where NO ONE sits on the ET, but seriously? has no one else thought "Hey why not just have the fleet self destruct? Problem solved and i don't have to babysit it."

 

It's not like that is an impossible idea, not one a power crazed pseudo-god would think of but still.

 

Speaking of, so the EF trashed all these worlds back in the day right? Well how come they never clashed with the Infinite Empire? Or the Celestials. Or the Gree. This is a non-canon game after all. (thanks Disney, you suck by the way.) So non of these all powerful civilizations ever encountered this apparently unstoppable force. But some backwater warlord managed to capture one of their ships and use it against them. Sure.

 

if you played the Warrior and Inquisitor Stories, there is some indication that Vitiate, had his own thing going on, outside the Sith Empire. And that it was heavily alien tech based. But this whole second empire thing is still really dumb. I mean he at the very least believes he is a god. and then of course he does really random stuff that more or less contradicts everything he says about himself. so maybe he is a god, just not a very good one.

 

On to my favorite topic of companion rage, Koth.

 

This guy is the token everything for 2 expansions. He is so incredibly annoying and incompetent, that you forget hes also some kind of super agent, but hes also completely pointless. Apparently they wanted me to hate someone more than Skadge. And impressively they succeeded.

 

A list then.

 

Worships the emperor. Like super hard, devoid of reason or conscience.

never actually listens to anything anyone else says. ever.

Seems to think the Gravestone is his. I still have no idea at what point he came to that conclusion.

Really, Really, Really wants Arcann gone. Dead. Donezo. Won't actually help you do it. Ever.

Is apparently competent to install a quantum bomb, but too stupid to consider how that might result in the total destruction of "his" ship.

Is utterly and completely surprised when, after telling him about a hundred times that you are going to kill him, you actually kill him. like what is that about? Did he think i was kidding?

 

I LOVE this game, its Star Wars. or it was. Not so much these days.

 

The force is not Light and Dark huh? Well that's interesting, non-canon SW story lets look at the other times thats been tried in the Legends (god i hate myself for even using that term) EU...

 

Mostly Jacen Solo became Caedus. The most pointless and stupid excuse to make three separate multi-book series in the old EU. Its dumb, and contradicts what made SW great in the first place.

 

And even Valky don't buy it for reals!!!

 

He's just lying to get what he wants cause he's a stupid old man who wants to be god.

 

if i think of anything else ill add it later.

 

if you read to this point, your either a huge nerd, or your a masochist.

 

EDIT

 

I FORGOT ABOUT VAYLIN

 

Not really, but i forgot to rant about her. From the get go, and i mean from when Lana rescues you from Carbonite, Vaylin is refered to by all NPC's with this kind of primal dread. But when you meet her it turns out she is basically just a child throwing a temper tantrum. So in order to convince us that she is indeed far too powerful to face alone, we are dragged through all sorts of nonesense. Regardless when we ultimately get to face her we discover that she does in fact have a supreme power. I call it force whining. and it has defeated my will to play with sound on.

 

otherwise, shes not anything special.

 

I read about as far as "this is a rant" and decided the only thing worth mentioning is that this is not just an MMO. It is also an RPG! So I am pretty sure you are allowed to BELIEVE that there are certain things that are "Eternal" !

I have always find interesting that someone in EA/Bioware thought it would be a good idea to release MMO expansions focused so strongly on single player with a so much cutscenes. You don't need to be game design genius to see it has zero replayability and minimal retention efffect. And if you add so superficial story with a lot of plot holes and questionable SW feeling, moreover leading into situation you will have a lot of problems to contine in story...

 

It looks like one of that corporate high up stroke of genius moments

The entire KOTFE/KOTET story went WAY off the rails as far as SW is concerned.

 

and

 

I LOVE this game, its Star Wars. or it was. Not so much these days.

 

So much this.

 

This stopped feeling like Star Wars with the first chapter of KotFE - it then became Keeping Up With The Valkorians.

 

Iokath is no better, just a feeble attempt to tie up some very loose story ends from KotFE/ET, that would - frankly - have been better off left loose and frayed.

 

Does Bioware want to revitalise this game?

 

Here's how (IMO of course):

 

1) Bring all of this FE/ET/Iokath crap to as speedy a resolution as is possible (no more than 8 months); use some massive Deus Ex Machina if you have to - you've been using them ALL through FE onward anyway.

 

2) Get rid of the Gravestone - have it and the Eternal Fleet and even Throne destroyed by some massive Deus Ex Machina, that sees the Outsider dethroned, and cast out.

 

3) Have us go back to our respective factions as an Outcast, with Theon, Lana and original class story Companions (if any exist) as the ONLY people willing to trust us.

 

4) Make us re-earn trust and rank within our respective factions by a) putting down rebellions, b) defeating "other faction" forces seeking to destabilise us, c) hunting down and destroying remnants of the Zakuulan forces operating within our faction space. Use existing Planets, Factions etc as the backdrop for this, to save on development costs and - much more importantly - get us grounded in Traditional Star Wars content again.

 

5) Use the above to put the game back on a Traditional Star Wars track, and then have intertwining, but NEVER identical, Faction Story Arcs - each of which have slightly divergent mini-arcs for Class Specific story elements. These don't have to be totally unique - the same arc could be used for both Consular and Inquisitor stories, with minimal changes to NPCs used for example.

 

Example: A functional Eternal Fleet Ship has been discovered - the Empire seek to capture it and use it, the Republic seek to destroy it to stop is posing a threat to what little fractious peace exists in a post Eternal Commander galaxy.

 

And here is the lesson that the Story Team at Bioware need - most urgently - to understand.

 

If you put us up against the most powerful thing in the Galaxy AND allow us to win you have NOWHERE left to go in terms of an internally coherent story, that can threaten us - because we've just become the most powerful force in the Galaxy. This is 5th Grade story writing basics stuff. Someone who doesn't understand that has no place being involved in story arc decision making on what should be a Triple A MMORPG.

 

All The Best

and

 

SNIP....

 

And here is the lesson that the Story Team at Bioware need - most urgently - to understand.

 

If you put us up against the most powerful thing in the Galaxy AND allow us to win you have NOWHERE left to go in terms of an internally coherent story, that can threaten us - because we've just become the most powerful force in the Galaxy. This is 5th Grade story writing basics stuff. Someone who doesn't understand that has no place being involved in story arc decision making on what should be a Triple A MMORPG.

 

All The Best

 

Thats a great post but at this point I'm not sure bw can recover without looking even more foolish in their lost ability to tell a decent story along with matching content.

 

They would have to be willing to look even more foolish to "reset" things because right now, I'm not sure there is a way to write what many have asked for without it looking as stupid as the Iokath story does and the moronic shoe horned choices bw crammed in.

 

At this point though I can't see why they wouldn't do something along these lines as it would be real hard to look at incapable as they do now in the story / content area.

I have nothing to add other than that I love every single rant in this thread and that I hope Zakuul and Iokath get destroyed by black holes and/or supernovae.

I would have enjoyed the whole thing a lot more with just one single extra choice at the very start:

3. Kill Lana

 

Everything after Lana suggests we kill the emperor is just plain dumb.

For those who suggest resolving the whole KotFE/KotET/Iokath thing with huge Deus Ex Machina...

 

Well, in my opinion, humble or not, Iokath is not part of the problem to be solved by a series of visits by Deus Ex Machina Man. No, it is the first step of the DEM solution. It contains stronger DEM in the first cinematic sequence than all of KotFE and KotET put together.

 

And that's why I (currently) refuse to play the story on Iokath.

The Eternal Throne storyline is torture. I only liked doing Star Fortress, Collecting new Companions, the swamps of Zakuul, the Alliance Base, and the gravestone. Satele's return was also kinda cool. But that whole mess of a story and Valkorian and Vaylin were just @$!$!ing trash. I hate to be so harsh but it was actually painful to play through. I literally get nausea or drowsiness when I have to go through the dialogue options or watch a cut scene. Valkorian and Vaylin both make me ready to stop playing as soon as they appear.

The entire KOTFE/KOTET story went WAY off the rails as far as SW is concerned. And it left them painted into a corner unless they intend to just turn the game off in the next year or so.

 

Yeah, I noticed that. I am actually back though because while the story is actually the weakest part of KoTFE/KoTET (despite being excellently voice acted) and mostly because it just feels awkward compared to the rest of the game and its story direction, the QoL introduced along side those updates really kicked the game to the next level.

 

I am back for the first time in a year and loving all the new QoL improvements. Now, that said, I hope that they get a better clarity of focus going forward. Most People play Star Wars for Light vs Dark (I am not sure how Luke's "the force is neutral" attitude is going to go over in the new movie - maybe like a lead balloon).

 

I haven't played it yet, but it seems like the latest story has the Republic and Sith at odds with each other. Good - they need to get back to this, and put KoTFE and KOTET in the rearview mirror as quick as possible.

 

What's sad is that this could have been the culimation of the story - done right, have both empire and republic joining temporary forces to finally depose a power hungry world-killing emperor - the original game set this up. They could have ended the current story with this, and then just added expansions to fill in as alternate stories to level with on the way to go kill the emperor at the end of the story.

 

Instead, they introduce a 3rd, unknown fleet and civilization and went totally off the rails.

 

I hope they can regain their focus. I hope they WANT to regain their focus. Time will tell. But keep the stellar QoL stuff coming!