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So....about Vaylin....


Codedrago's Avatar


Codedrago
12.01.2016 , 11:06 AM | #21
Actually, I think this ties into a theme of the story overall, well; what I interpret as a theme. Not change itself, the ability to. No matter the faction, no matter dark or light. It's not where you are, it's that you can move. Arcann could change, he just needed the right push, but the Outlander can push him past that point as well by causing him to lose the only parental figure that actually gave a damn about him.

But Vaylin had been pushed past that point long ago thanks to Valkorian (Though arguably, it could also have been when Arcann defended Senya because Vaylin was actually close to Arcann), and pushed away or out-right attacked any chance that came her way. Vaylin was irredeemable, killing Valkorian and being free of his control was the best option she would ever get.
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forceresssupreme
12.01.2016 , 12:50 PM | #22
I would have liked a chance to recruit and/or redeem Vaylin, but I can't really find any fault with the way it all turned out. She seemed insane and irredeemable at first, but after the Nathema chapter it casts everything she did in an entirely different light. Not that the brutality and slaughter was excusable, necessarily, but that after the abuse and torture she endured she wasn't entirely responsible for what she became.

As for her ultimate fate, I feel that it was the best possible outcome for her. It's somewhat similar to Frodo's journey to the Grey Havens in the LOTR series, in that she had simply suffered too much for anything short of death to heal her. Senya's goal throughout KotFE and the first part of KotET was to redeem her daughter, but even she gave it up as a lost cause. She said it herself, that Vaylin was broken and that she had to be dealt with. Killing her was as much a mercy for Vaylin as it was destroying a dangerous enemy.

AshlaBoga's Avatar


AshlaBoga
12.01.2016 , 01:17 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by stuffystuffs View Post
Yeah. I enjoyed the story but this is one thing I hated. Vaylin suffered far worse abuse than Arcann but she's too 'broken' and undeserving of any redemption attempts. Now, Arcann (who killed more people than Vaylin did...how many planets did he destroy? Seems like he did a lot of damage in five years) , yeah he gets a full redemption path since mommy sacrifices herself for him.

Even when Vaylin dies, she's not even free of Valkorian's control. I thought the scene where her ghost tried to break his control but he forced her to fight you was sickening...at least we could free her ghost and kill Valk but eh...
It's sickening for me because I've talked to people who were subjected to torture as children.
If you collect all 7 log entries for Nathema you learn the following.

-That Vaylin was kept in solitary confinement on Nathema
-That the guards were instructed to beat her until she stopped fighting back
-That Jara drugged her and subjected her to Electro-Shock Torture to make her compliant
-That she was forced to watch vivisection of anyone she made friends with on Nathema (a vivisection is when you cut up a living organism and it's almost always fatal)
-That her memories were corrupted by Valkorrion
-And she was taught to shut down her empathy and forced to help with the torture sessions.

My friends - this seems like an accurate description of HELL.
The dark is generous, and it is patient, and it always wins.
It always wins because it is everywhere.
The brightest light casts the darkest shadow.
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Paulsutherland's Avatar


Paulsutherland
12.01.2016 , 01:17 PM | #24
Does the 'Barsen'thor' / Counselor have a chance to try and 'heal' Vaylin? Like when used on Vivicar against X Sith spirit?

Gelious's Avatar


Gelious
12.01.2016 , 01:32 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by AshlaBoga View Post
Nathema was at first creepy because of the Force being corrupted, but Vaylin's hellish time there?

I truly felt bad for her.
This. So much this. Nathema was creepy, the lab itself was creepy, but the Mad Scientist diary was pure Nighmare Fuel. After playing this chapter Vaylin gets a pass for all stupid crap she pulled in both KOTET and KOTFE... poor girl is really messed up beyond any measure...

And instead of doing anything for her except mercy killing, we get the option to save Arcann.
"They will not! I command them to know fear! To raise me to my throne! They can not!" - Soa. The Red Eclipse:
Gelious - Sith Marauder; Helimana - Mercenary; Nellios - Operative; Mellas - Sith Assassin; Xatra - Commando.

Codedrago's Avatar


Codedrago
12.01.2016 , 01:33 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Paulsutherland View Post
Does the 'Barsen'thor' / Counselor have a chance to try and 'heal' Vaylin? Like when used on Vivicar against X Sith spirit?
This is not the same situation as with Vivicar, that technique would not work here.
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You're a white knight if you like Bioware, you're a whiner if you hate them, you're a scummy fence sitter if you're in the middle.
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Paulsutherland's Avatar


Paulsutherland
12.01.2016 , 02:00 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Codedrago View Post
This is not the same situation as with Vivicar, that technique would not work here.
Wound her then take her to the Voss for the same treatment Arcaan got?

Edit: Or what about the 'Mother Machine' on Belsavis? We could have thrown Vaylin in there, told the machine to kick out the 'bad' stuff ... and BOOM ... everything is right in the universe.

Eshvara's Avatar


Eshvara
12.01.2016 , 02:24 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Gelious View Post
poor girl is really messed up beyond any measure...
Which is exactly why you can't save her, let alone make her a companion.
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Maevena's Avatar


Maevena
12.01.2016 , 02:41 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by AshlaBoga View Post
It's sickening for me because I've talked to people who were subjected to torture as children.
If you collect all 7 log entries for Nathema you learn the following.

-That Vaylin was kept in solitary confinement on Nathema
-That the guards were instructed to beat her until she stopped fighting back
-That Jara drugged her and subjected her to Electro-Shock Torture to make her compliant
-That she was forced to watch vivisection of anyone she made friends with on Nathema (a vivisection is when you cut up a living organism and it's almost always fatal)
-That her memories were corrupted by Valkorrion
-And she was taught to shut down her empathy and forced to help with the torture sessions.

My friends - this seems like an accurate description of HELL.
I felt so sorry for Vaylin and her abuse at the hands of her father is horrifying... and I hate that you are "pushed" so to speak, to try and redeem Arcann and feel sympathy for him. Talk about double standards.
Arcann is not seeing the light on the day again just on principle

gaelicvixen's Avatar


gaelicvixen
12.01.2016 , 02:43 PM | #30
As ugly and uncomfortable a truth as it is, you really can't save everyone. Not every time.

Vaylin could not get past what had been done to her, so she couldn't transform herself the way Arcann did. That doesn't mean she was any less beloved by the story, either, rather it's a testament to just how horribly cruel Vitiate was and a painful reminder that sometimes, the person who suffers the consequences of an evil act is not the one who committed it.

Sometimes you can save them in time, but not always. By the time we meet Vaylin, she had already suffered too much. Killing her was a mercy imo.