Hello people of the internet!

I have come back after a long hiatus (played on Vanillia Release) and I'm just wondering which sub-class and spec of the sith warrior brings the best Burst Damage consistently right now in the game, and probably will in the future?

Back Then I mainly played my Mara and easily topped Damage and Kill boards, but to be fair I grind-ed full Purple back then, and rank wasn't really a thing early on. The spec I played then Was the good old Smash build, so I'm looking to see what's good now? Is Jugg smash (rage) was great back then too, so I'm wondering if it's still the same for burst? Is Mara or Jugg better at burst?

Mara Carnage is one of the best (if not the best) burst spec in the game. PVP wise the burst is kind of predictable, but for PVE it is the second highest parsing specs (after mara anni, which is a dot spec). Mara fury is decent burst and very hard to predict in PVP (with nice utilities such as cc immunity), but terrible in PVE.

Rage jugg is similar to mara fury.

Carnage once you become very good at mara or are playing group ranked, fury is a very good regular warzone spec due to the extra mobility and periodic cc immunity.

But why is carnage good? And is smash spec (aka old godspec) just bad now? I've read that they are buffing Jugg and Mara Rage tree in 5.0, so I'm factoring that too I guess since I plan on playing consistently.

But why is carnage good? And is smash spec (aka old godspec) just bad now? I've read that they are buffing Jugg and Mara Rage tree in 5.0, so I'm factoring that too I guess since I plan on playing consistently.

Carnage is the fastest spec in the game (it has the highest alacrity when geared correctly) with some of the strongest burst as well. In group ranked, your awe and on-demand, high burst makes you one of the best classes. It also has excellent sustained damage for a burst class.

Fury (smash)( gives better mobility and periodic cc immunity, but it lacks the burst and sustained of carnage. In regs when ccs are flying all over the place as well as knockbacks and the like, it's a good choice. Fury's smash was nerfed some time ago, and it's one of the lowest dps classes in the game. It's good in regs because you have more uptime than carnage, but carnage is what I play in regs personally.

Jug is not a burst class, not even top 5. Veng is a good sustained spec though.

Rage/Fury has the best burst. Don't listen to anyone who says carnage. Carnage is woefully predictable and it's so easy to deny a marauder that short gore window.

Carnage can be easy to shut down when you are fighting an opponent that knows what to look for, but, a good carnage mara knows how to mask his intentions [Ravage is where they will shut you down, that's why u shouldn't use it with a gore window] and a gore window that uses Vicious throw and devastating blast, gets off fast enough that's its not so easy to stop it before its already off. You add force choke, intimidating roar, force camouflage to the set up and they can't stop you from getting it off in time. To be fair, it does take some skill to do effectively and there will be times u will get shut down, no two ways about it, but even with that, you can still bring on the pain and it is not uncommon to see carnage marauders doing some of the most damage in wzs.

Regarding the Rage/Fury portion, it does not have the best burst. Carnage will out burst it. That's not to say it's not a viable spec or it has bad burst, it's anti cc utilities and abilities are extremely well suited for pvp, but you rarely see a Fury Mara topping the boards.

Far as PVE is concerned, Maras,Anni and Carnage spec. are the highest DPS class [assuming the player has the proper amount of skill of course] in the game. Fury is one of the lowest DPS specs in the game, however.

Maras are also one the hardest classes to master [even harder in PVP] but they are incredibly fun to play and worth the effort IMO.

Rage/Fury has the best burst. Don't listen to anyone who says carnage. Carnage is woefully predictable and it's so easy to deny a marauder that short gore window.

Agreed, Rage/Fury out burst Carnage all day, no contest. Finally someone talking sense up in here. I didn't even know Carnage was known for burst.

Siiiiike!

But why is carnage good? And is smash spec (aka old godspec) just bad now? I've read that they are buffing Jugg and Mara Rage tree in 5.0, so I'm factoring that too I guess since I plan on playing consistently.

The Fury/Rage specs are no longer called the "smash spec" since that abilitiy was nerfed for it quite a while ago, that said it still has good burst and passives that work well in PVP so if you want to stick with that spec go ahead.

People talk about carnage like it has reliable burst because of dummy parses or games where they squash really bad players. The thing about ship dummies (and really bad players) is that they don't fight back. Any enemy with two eyes in their head is going to see you pop gore, and then stun you, push you, or use an ability to back off. You will not do much/anything with that gore. Carnage has no burst without gore.

You can talk about theory and technical DPS all you want, but it doesn't mean anything if you can't get your burst off on good players. Rage/Fury are infinitely more reliable.

Most sorcerers in unranked seem to use backlash as well, so all your gore ends up accomplishing is CCing yourself and possibly others. At least with Rage/Fury when you come out of CC, you just pick up where you left off. You don't need to wait for gore to come off of cooldown or anything like that.

Carnage has decent burst, it's only when people try to pull off a full DB → ravage → vicious throw in one gore window that they get knocked away and interrupted. It's easy to pull off a DB → vicious throw in a gore window, and no one can prevent it from 10m.

No argument that fury's burst is more frequent and more chunky.

Carnage has decent burst, it's only when people try to pull off a full DB → ravage → vicious throw in one gore window that they get knocked away and interrupted. It's easy to pull off a DB → vicious throw in a gore window, and no one can prevent it from 10m.

 

No argument that fury's burst is more frequent and more chunky.

The range on most stuns is at least 10 metres, so yeah, if you're in range for any attempt at burst, you can be stunned or pushed.

The range on most stuns is at least 10 metres, so yeah, if you're in range for any attempt at burst, you can be stunned.

I don't know many people who save their stuns for carnage maras. Sure you can be stopped, so can any spec. It's just not that common if you're going for something standard and not trying to cram everything at once.

I don't know many people who save their stuns for carnage maras. Sure you can be stopped, so can any spec. It's just not that common if you're going for something standard and not trying to cram everything at once.

The best thing you can do with a stun is stop someone from grabbing a big objective (like scoring in Huttball). The second best thing you can do with a stun is deny an enemy that's about to unload a huge amount of burst. If carnage has high burst, then it is a high priority target for a stun.

You don't even need to use a stun though. Overload has a 15 metre range. If you pop gore, I will throw you away, and then you get the choice of watching me heal for the next 5 seconds, or using a root breaker to attempt to kill me without gore.

Which other spec loses their burst because of a stun? If you get stunned as Fury, your burst is delayed, not lost. When the stun ends, you unload the entire thing as usual. A wasted gore means your burst is lost until the next time gore comes off of cooldown.

Which other spec loses their burst because of a stun? If you get stunned as Fury, your burst is delayed, not lost. When the stun ends, you unload the entire thing as usual. A wasted gore means your burst is lost until the next time gore comes off of cooldown.

Which is 12 seconds. If I deny burst to say, an arsenal merc, he now has to wait 15 seconds. If I deny burst to an AP PT, he has to wait 24 seconds. Concealment needs to wait 18 seconds, MM needs 15 and engineering needs 18 too.

None of them are as susceptible to stuns, but no one saves a stun for a carnage mara. No one. Carnage has very frequent burst windows, so even if he does lose a couple to a stun or a knockback he'll still do fine overall.

Which is 12 seconds. If I deny burst to say, an arsenal merc, he now has to wait 15 seconds. If I deny burst to an AP PT, he has to wait 24 seconds. Concealment needs to wait 18 seconds, MM needs 15 and engineering needs 18 too.

 

None of them are as susceptible to stuns, but no one saves a stun for a carnage mara. No one. Carnage has very frequent burst windows, so even if he does lose a couple to a stun or a knockback he'll still do fine overall.

You can't deny the burst to a mercenary unless he's fighting you at melee range or unless you use a soft stun that has 30 metre range. As a sorcerer, the only way for me to shut down a merc is with whirlwind, which may or may not be interrupted. Soft stuns may not be practical at all if your team has one of those geniuses who runs around putting DOTs on every enemy.

I said before that carnage works just fine on really bad players. If an enemy lets a carnage marauder burst on him/her without opposition, that's what you're fighting. A really bad player. Don't tell me that people don't stun carnage marauders, because I stun them and I laugh at them. When I play corruption, carnage is one of the least threatening warrior specs, right down at the very bottom with annihilation. Immortal is more of a threat to corruption than carnage because at least it has trauma spam.

PTs can kite outside of 10 metres and all they lose is rocket punch. Fury marauders have gravity vortex, which is specifically there to protect their burst from delays. Concealment can slice you which stops you from pushing or stunning them because you have to face an enemy to use a targeted ability on that enemy. All snipers have entrench and the only way to stop their burst is to kill them or run behind a piece of the environment, period.

Sorry, carnage is just behind most other burst specs when it comes to actually doing anything.

People talk about carnage like it has reliable burst because of dummy parses or games where they squash really bad players. The thing about ship dummies (and really bad players) is that they don't fight back. Any enemy with two eyes in their head is going to see you pop gore, and then stun you, push you, or use an ability to back off. You will not do much/anything with that gore. Carnage has no burst without gore.

 

You can talk about theory and technical DPS all you want, but it doesn't mean anything if you can't get your burst off on good player .

Actually, I was talking about good players, the best available in Harb actually. My group ranked team ran carnage/marksman hard swap and had the most wins for season 6. The best Mara I've played with or seen in this game, who was my dps partner on this team, played carnage exclusively. Carnage shines in a team using mezzes/hard stuns to control the tank, healer, and dps kill target because its burst can't be interupted.

If you have players that are BiS in their class and have a lot of group ranked experience, Jug tank (or sin)/carnage/marksman/sorc healer is the strongest arena comp in the game.

You can't deny the burst to a mercenary unless he's fighting you at melee range or unless you use a soft stun that has 30 metre range.

You can - on a conc op

Actually, I was talking about good players, the best available in Harb actually. My group ranked team ran carnage/marksman hard swap and had the most wins for season 6. The best Mara I've played with or seen in this game, who was my dps partner on this team, played carnage exclusively. Carnage shines in a team using mezzes/hard stuns to control the tank, healer, and dps kill target because its burst can't be interupted.

 

If you have players that are BiS in their class and have a lot of group ranked experience, Jug tank (or sin)/carnage/marksman/sorc healer is the strongest arena comp in the game.

You have one of two options here. 1) Carnage has great burst, or 2) Carnage isn't worth wasting a stun on. You can't have both at the same time. Either your burst is great, in which case using a stun on you is a great idea, or your burst isn't great, so why are you playing carnage?

While I'm sure it's nice to have a premade filled with three people who will make up for your character's shortfalls, this topic is by a guy who is certainly not going to be in ranked and probably doesn't have 3 people to carry him. You make a topic like this when you're at the very beginner level. This topic is aimed at solo regs. Carnage is a joke in solo regs. And yes, carry is the right word here, because your new argument is that gore can't be lost, as you have other people who will use up their stuns just so you can use your burst. You're portraying carnage as a charity spec.

You have one of two options here. 1) Carnage has great burst, or 2) Carnage isn't worth wasting a stun on. You can't have both at the same time. Either your burst is great, in which case using a stun on you is a great idea, or your burst isn't great, so why are you playing carnage?

 

While I'm sure it's nice to have a premade filled with three people who will make up for your character's shortfalls, this topic is by a guy who is certainly not going to be in ranked and probably doesn't have 3 people to carry him. You make a topic like this when you're at the very beginner level. This topic is aimed at solo regs. Carnage is a joke in solo regs. And yes, carry is the right word here, because your new argument is that gore can't be lost, as you have other people who will use up their stuns just so you can use your burst. You're portraying carnage as a charity spec.

"Carrying" the best Mara N/A- I'll be sure to let him know. He also plays carnage in regs as do Vaezi, Feks, usually Mace. No other maras worth noting on my server. There's a huge disconnect here, and I have no stake in educating you. I've given the OP my advice/opinion. Both fury and carnage will perform well in regs, carnage has a higher skill cap and is more dangerous when played subtly. And the part that's been lost here- don't pick jug for burst.

"Carrying" the best Mara N/A- I'll be sure to let him know. He also plays carnage in regs as do Vaezi, Feks, usually Mace. No other maras worth noting on my server. There's a huge disconnect here, and I have no stake in educating you. I've given the OP my advice/opinion. Both fury and carnage will perform well in regs, carnage has a higher skill cap and is more dangerous when played subtly. And the part that's been lost here- don't pick jug for burst.

Don't hide behind someone else's skirt. You're using this phantom player, putting words into his mouth, knowing that he can't respond. Whoever this person is (if he exists), you should probably ask for his consent before you use him as your personal shield.

You know what spec doesn't need 3 other players to get its burst off? Fury. Fury can get its burst off all by itself, without anyone to hold its hand.

Don't hide behind someone else's skirt. You're using this phantom player, putting words into his mouth, knowing that he can't respond. Whoever this person is (if he exists), you should probably ask for his consent before you use him as your personal shield.

 

You know what spec doesn't need 3 other players to get its burst off? Fury. Fury can get its burst off all by itself, without anyone to hold its hand.

I think your avoiding the point, the argument isn't about fury > carnage its carnage burst is > then fury burst AND Mara burst > jug burst.

On a side note Mara is very much a support dps role... you don't have dr for stuns you don't have the healing power of any other melee class, mara does have group assist power and very short window of hold the line (not the move). HOWEVER if a carnage mara jumps on a target and unloads uninterrupted (which is that groups whole plan to aoe mezz jump on 1 wait for a break and re apply and then finish up the 3v4) then carnage Mara is burst king.

again the argument isn't carnage spec is > furry spec each has roles and play styles, furry gives you the immunity carnage gives you gore window, which works better for you? (not really a question I need an answer for) But you both are talking in circles over nothing.

I think your avoiding the point, the argument isn't about fury > carnage its carnage burst is > then fury burst AND Mara burst > jug burst.

 

On a side note Mara is very much a support dps role... you don't have dr for stuns you don't have the healing power of any other melee class, mara does have group assist power and very short window of hold the line (not the move). HOWEVER if a carnage mara jumps on a target and unloads uninterrupted (which is that groups whole plan to aoe mezz jump on 1 wait for a break and re apply and then finish up the 3v4) then carnage Mara is burst king.

 

again the argument isn't carnage spec is > furry spec each has roles and play styles, furry gives you the immunity carnage gives you gore window, which works better for you? (not really a question I need an answer for) But you both are talking in circles over nothing.

I was very on-point. You should read the entire topic. I'm arguing that carnage has no burst against a skilled player, because it is one of the most predictable specs in the game and it is very easy to force carnage to waste its gore, over and over again.

I also talked about why people think carnage is good. I specifically mentioned that these people use ship dummy logic, which is what you're doing. Ship dummies don't fight back. You can jump on them, unload everything, and they just take it. This doesn't work against decent players. You pop gore, and you get stunned or pushed for your troubles. I mentioned that Fury has gravity vortex to protect its burst, while carnage has no such protection, and the other guy's response was that it doesn't matter because you can just ask other players to help you use your burst.

I was very on-point. You should read the entire topic. I'm arguing that carnage has no burst against a skilled player, because it is one of the most predictable specs in the game and it is very easy to force carnage to waste its gore, over and over again.

 

I also talked about why people think carnage is good. I specifically mentioned that these people use ship dummy logic, which is what you're doing. Ship dummies don't fight back. You can jump on them, unload everything, and they just take it. This doesn't work against decent players. You pop gore, and you get stunned or pushed for your troubles. I mentioned that Fury has gravity vortex to protect its burst, while carnage has no such protection, and the other guy's response was that it doesn't matter because you can just ask other players to help you use your burst.

AP burst is probably more predictable but at least it has some immunity with hydraulics