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What is wrong with you, Garza?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
What is wrong with you, Garza?

FlameYOL's Avatar


FlameYOL
09.13.2016 , 05:00 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
CAVEAT LECTOR: I''m talking about Marr before the beginning of KotFE.

I would humbly suggest that there is no measure by which Darth Marr would meet most people's concept of "good", except in the context of "effective" and the like.

Marr is effective, and he has a long-term view of what needs to be done for the benefit of the Empire. He gained position and power to further that aim, but there is no doubt that his methods are evil. The events at the end of Rishi and during the story on Yavin 4 show that to perfection.

In essence, Darth Marr is working to further the aims of the Empire, while most Sith (and a distressing number of highly-placed Republic figures including two whose names we shall not mention but whose initials might be Supreme Chancellor Saresh or General Garza) are working to further their own aims.
That's my idea of a good Sith,thanks for putting in better words than i did.
A man can have anything...If he's willing to sacrifice everything

cool-dude's Avatar


cool-dude
09.15.2016 , 09:58 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyDarkkitten View Post
One reason I guess why I find her so offensive is her attitude often seems to be reflected in the people who reach high ranks in real world militaries. I always believed that if I was being asked to give my life for my country it was on the people asking me to make that sacrifice that it was in fact a nessercary sacrifice and not just for their personnal gain. That there was no other way. Sadly Garzas corruptness makes the idea of dying for the republic a sad practical joke. Said joke being on your trooper
In the real world, if the u.s military played nice with others there would be no 50 states or America for that matter.
"Sarcasm is strong in this one"

dcaleb's Avatar


dcaleb
09.16.2016 , 05:17 AM | #13
They had to make her a jerk so they would have a reason to defect (even if there was no excuse for defecting to the freaking Empire if your problem is mistreatment of soldiers, seriously).

LadyDarkkitten's Avatar


LadyDarkkitten
09.16.2016 , 06:49 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by cool-dude View Post
In the real world, if the u.s military played nice with others there would be no 50 states or America for that matter.
Not sure if you understood what I was saying? in the real world the us military doesn't play nice to its ENEMIES. key word here: ENEMIES. You don't have (or certainly shouldn't) individual generals empire building and pursuing personal power by sending the men under them onto unneeded suicide missions, dirty black op missions then cutting them loose afterwards and sending them to court martial so they get life in prison or to dangerous behind the lines missions then canceling their extract and leaving them to die. (all of which Garza does).

The US military might not be a perfect institution, but it isn't corrupt! I reject totally the idea that "if the usa military wasn't corrupt and didnt throw away the lives of the men and women who serve in it for no reason beyond poltical expediency and to advance the power of the generals calling the shots, there would be no 50 states or America for that matter". You can value the lives of the people who serve in your armed forces and STILL defend freedom. Its not an either or.
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MayhemofChaonus's Avatar


MayhemofChaonus
09.16.2016 , 07:20 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyDarkkitten View Post
Not sure if you understood what I was saying? in the real world the us military doesn't play nice to its ENEMIES. key word here: ENEMIES. You don't have (or certainly shouldn't) individual generals empire building and pursuing personal power by sending the men under them onto unneeded suicide missions, dirty black op missions then cutting them loose afterwards and sending them to court martial so they get life in prison or to dangerous behind the lines missions then canceling their extract and leaving them to die. (all of which Garza does).

The US military might not be a perfect institution, but it isn't corrupt! I reject totally the idea that "if the usa military wasn't corrupt and didnt throw away the lives of the men and women who serve in it for no reason beyond poltical expediency and to advance the power of the generals calling the shots, there would be no 50 states or America for that matter". You can value the lives of the people who serve in your armed forces and STILL defend freedom. Its not an either or.
Problem is the U.S. military is corrupt. Not necessarily on an individual basis but because it serves a corrupt system. By defending that corrupt, broken, and abused system the military becomes corrupt. Not in the sense we see demonstrated by Garza, but in that it is serving evil for the "right" reasons.
"The weak will always be victims. That is the way of the universe. The strong take what they want, and the weak suffer at their hands. That is their fate; it is inevitable. Only the strong survive, because only the strong deserve to" - Darth Bane
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therecanonlybeon's Avatar


therecanonlybeon
09.27.2016 , 05:02 AM | #16
if you think US army is corrupt you should come and see Eastern EU.

JLazarillo's Avatar


JLazarillo
09.30.2016 , 04:52 PM | #17
On a recent playthrough of the Trooper story during Chapter 3, I:
Spoiler


It was a flimsy excuse and I almost started to feel guilty about it (not too much though; the Trooper story has so many choices like that one that I end up kinda desensitized). But then, Garza told me "You made the wrong call." And frankly, if there's one thing I've learned during the Trooper story, it's that whenever I wonder if I've done the morally upright thing to do, I can always count on Garza to berate me for it, and therefore, I made the best possible choice after all.

Rolodome's Avatar


Rolodome
09.30.2016 , 11:43 PM | #18
She isn't deserving of the title "general" IMO, but I don't think most real generals in the heat of wartime are much better, in terms of making "humane" choices.

Thing about Garza is she is the product of ultimate power, brutal enemies, and no oversight. She leads a black ops group, so of course she's going to do shady stuff. She's up against some of the worst the galaxy has to offer, so of course she's going to be every bit as brutal as they are to ensure the Republic stands a chance against them. And because she has no real oversight (when in doubt, sweep things under the political rug) she has no strong motivation not to do whatever the heck she wants.

Make no mistake. I hate her and her callous attitude goes against everything I stand for. But her character makes sense and I can kind of understand why the person in her role is the person that she is. It would be a bit weird if she was a beacon of light, given the circumstances. She is basically the embodiment of "for the greater good"; I do think she truly believes in the values of the Republic and the Jedi, but she's also willing to sacrifice anyone and anything to ensure that the Republic wins. The lives destroyed and abandoned are simply casualties of war to her. It's all about coming out on top when the smoke clears.

And I think SWTOR did right by writing her as she is because she embodies one of the harsh realities of war; that there is no such thing as killing each other en masse and being pleasant and good about it. When both parties are committed, morality goes out the window and it becomes a game of winning with the average person as the victim.
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MishraArtificer
10.01.2016 , 02:39 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by MayhemofChaonus View Post
Problem is the U.S. military is corrupt. Not necessarily on an individual basis but because it serves a corrupt system. By defending that corrupt, broken, and abused system the military becomes corrupt. Not in the sense we see demonstrated by Garza, but in that it is serving evil for the "right" reasons.
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Frenesi
10.06.2016 , 05:39 PM | #20
Becouse she is military woman, and extremely competent at that. Some wars don't have place for morality - only for efficiency. And think about it some more:

What's inherently wrong with rakghoul plague? It's a weapon, and damn effective at that. It allows to wage war deep in enemy territory without losing soldiers. How many soldiers can be saved by deploying something like that? How many imperials will die from it, again, reducing the pressure on republic soldiers? it will leave infected planet pretty much permanently crippled. The only downside is how hard it is to clean up after it, but if you never intend to capture said planet yourself - it's win-win scenario.

Or how many of said republic soldiers will die if Bastion remains in imperial hands? How much weaker Republic will get in the result, how many more worlds will be lost and how many people will die to sith on those worlds? Isn't it better to sacrifice small bunch of insignificant civilians right now to ensure much bigger losses never happen?

As for Jaxo situation, it was pure math. Save 1 soldier, of few dozens. And that 1 soldier is pathetic little ***** crying for her life. It actually was one of the few light-sided choices I made nearly instantly for my trooper.

She does good for the Republic. Much more than any goody-two-shues senator or even most of jedi do. Her only **** up was the Eclipse squad, and even that had potential of huge reward in it.

Edit: What was that phrase on Voss you can tell to senator? "War is a killing contest, And I'm simply the best at it"?
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