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Couple of questions for hardcore lore pros.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Couple of questions for hardcore lore pros.

MagusGothica's Avatar


MagusGothica
12.26.2011 , 07:33 PM | #1
Just have a couple of random lore questions for those very knowledgeable about such things.

Firstly, about lightsaber forms. I've been reading Wookieepedia a bit lately, and the lightsaber forms sections there. I'm a bit confused about dual-blade lightsaber forms. The Niman/Jar'Kai page implies that to be effective in dual-wield lightsaber combat, you pretty much end up using Niman/Jar'Kai. But in SW:TOR, the Sentinel class (which dual-wields) uses Ataru, Juyo, and Shii-Cho. So can you apply a specific lightsaber form to dual-wield in the lore? Specifically, I'm wondering about the viability of a dual-wield version of Vaapad. Mace Windu clearly designed Vaapad around the use of a single blade, however I'm wondering if it would be acceptable in the lore for there to be a Vaapad user that dual wields. And is good at it.

(And no, this is not an "I want to see Vaapad in SW:TOR" thing, I understand that Vaapad hadn't been created until Mace Windu invented it, and cannot be in SW:TOR.)

The second question I have is, is there any precedent in the lore for a Jedi, a member of the Order, to use Force Lightning? I've seen that it's strongly implied in SW:TOR and elsewhere that Force Lightning is a strictly Dark Side power, and obviously, if you're using Dark Side, then the Jedi Order isn't going to look kindly on that. I'm just wondering if there have been any Jedi that used Force Lightning and weren't Dark Side, and the Jedi Order were cool with them and didn't kick them out or anything.

In case you're wondering why I'm asking this, I'm trying to create a character for Extended Universe, to use in fanfictions and such. Probably New Republic era. I'm hoping to be able to create a firm Light Side Jedi, a respected Master of the Order, that dual wields in the Vaapad style and uses Force Lightning and Force Choke on occasion. I'm just hesitant to craft this character without knowing that there would be a precedent in the lore for those things to be acceptable.

blooddodo's Avatar


blooddodo
12.26.2011 , 07:46 PM | #2
About the first. I'm not very interested in the more technical aspects of the ip, and can't really help.
About the second, however, we have not one, but two precedents Kyle Katarn (Jedi Knight series of video games, some comics and novels) uses both dark and light sided powers, teaching that the powers themselves aren't inherently good nor evil, but how you use them. He teaches this to his padawan, Jaden Korr (Jedi Academy video game, some novels, most notably Crosscurrent which deals with him coming to terms with his former master's teaching and his apparent slippage to the Dark Side due to prolonged use of the Force Lightning), who then masters the same techniques. Both are stated to be somewhat unique, but you did ask for a precedent, and there they are
(Excuse my probably not-so-stellar english, it's rather late and I should be in bed instead of lurking the forums )
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Lannen's Avatar


Lannen
12.26.2011 , 07:52 PM | #3
In regards to Dual-Wielding forms in the Canon...
Niman/Jar'Kai is a non-form, but rather a technique. It's a focus of learning to fight with the dual blades of the two cultural groups it was named for. Therefore a Dual-wielder could theoretically practice the technique and strategy of any given 'Saber form. All of this not to be confused with Form VI Niman, which is itself a hybrid form utilizing techniques from forms I-V.
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MagusGothica's Avatar


MagusGothica
12.26.2011 , 08:14 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by blooddodo View Post
About the first. I'm not very interested in the more technical aspects of the ip, and can't really help.
About the second, however, we have not one, but two precedents Kyle Katarn (Jedi Knight series of video games, some comics and novels) uses both dark and light sided powers, teaching that the powers themselves aren't inherently good nor evil, but how you use them. He teaches this to his padawan, Jaden Korr (Jedi Academy video game, some novels, most notably Crosscurrent which deals with him coming to terms with his former master's teaching and his apparent slippage to the Dark Side due to prolonged use of the Force Lightning), who then masters the same techniques. Both are stated to be somewhat unique, but you did ask for a precedent, and there they are
(Excuse my probably not-so-stellar english, it's rather late and I should be in bed instead of lurking the forums )
Ah, excellent answer, thanks for that. Okay, to go a bit deeper, if you can. But since you're tired, maybe not until tomorrow. :P

I was unaware of Kyle Katarn and Jaden Korr, but that's a good example. I was thinking of putting my particular character in the New Republic timeline, simply because that's just easier. Luke Skywalker already lets his Jedi trainees get married, etc. So it would be a lot easier to craft a character within that timeline, since all of the things he would do would be a bit more acceptable.

However, what I *really* want to do, is put my character in the Old Republic timeline. Maybe as a backstory within the events of SW:TOR, or maybe after the events of SW:TOR, not sure. However, there doesn't seem to be as much of a canonical precedent for that. My character would definitely have a wife. And he'd ride the Dark Side. I envision a character that teaches much the same way that Kyle Katarn does, that the powers themselves aren't evil, that it is how you use them. My character would be a stereotypical good guy in every single aspect. I envision him in SW:TOR, and he would make every single decision presented to him in the Light Side way, donating credits to starving children, defending the weak. He'd never slaughter innocents, or strike down an unarmed opponent.

But at the same time, he wouldn't shut off all emotion like the Jedi do. He would embrace love, like I said, I imagine he'd have a wife. And he'd definitely embrace anger, rage, and aggression. But rather than using it recklessly, against everyone, he'd use it as a weapon against the enemies of the Republic. He'd like, get mad at a Sith Lord he was fighting, and aggressively beat him down. I envision a very passionate Jedi, that is definitely a good guy, but does things that the Jedi Order forbids and fears.

I just can't see putting a character like that in the Old Republic timeline. He'd probably get kicked out of the Jedi Order, or have the Force stripped from him, or even be put to death. And I don't want that for this character. I figure if Mace Windu made it on the Jedi Council despite using Vaapad and riding the Dark Side, I don't see why my character (he remains unnamed because I haven't found a good name) couldn't do those things.

I dunno, I like the Old Republic timeline better, I just don't think that my character would be able to canonically survive.

And I wouldn't be able to have my character use Vaapad in the Old Republic timeline as well. I'm a huge Vaapad fan and I think that the Vaapad discipline would be important to a character that uses Dark Side aspects, because it would give him the self-control needed not to fall completely. I think there may be some way to imply that my character uses something similar to Vaapad, without using Vaapad itself.

Mechavomit's Avatar


Mechavomit
12.26.2011 , 08:16 PM | #5
About the Force Lightning: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Electric_Judgment
It's NOT exactly the same, but very close, just not as evil =)

blooddodo's Avatar


blooddodo
12.27.2011 , 02:02 AM | #6
I really can't see this happening in this era. He can be all you want, but he'll never be accepted by the jedi order. You want him to do and be several things the order fights vehemently at this point
It's possible he can be some rogue, hermit force-user, like Jolee from KotOR, but beyond that is just pushing the limits of the setting too far.
You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?
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pommopsicle's Avatar


pommopsicle
12.27.2011 , 02:56 AM | #7
in the one of the books outcast, which is set after return of the jedi, it says that luke met a group of force users that could use force lightning, but instead of the dark purplish hues of the darkside, this lightning was white and was the purest form of concentrated force energy he had ever felt. so maybe its implying that darkside lightning is easier to master, while light side is harder and more potent. idk
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enrikat's Avatar


enrikat
01.02.2012 , 07:40 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by MagusGothica View Post

However, what I *really* want to do, is put my character in the Old Republic timeline. Maybe as a backstory within the events of SW:TOR, or maybe after the events of SW:TOR, not sure. However, there doesn't seem to be as much of a canonical precedent for that. My character would definitely have a wife. And he'd ride the Dark Side.
For the marriage thing, you have Revan and Bastila. They were married after the events of KOTOR, and the Jedi Order tolerated it mostly because they were War Heroes. Now, the Council wasn't pleased with this, but as long as they didn't make a huge deal out of their marriage it was okay.

Also, you could just have a rogue Jedi like Jolee. He didn't believe all the teachings of the Jedi Council, so he just retired and went his own way. Now since he wasn't evil or out doing evil things, the Jedi let him go.
We all carry within us our places of exile, our crimes and our ravages. But our task is not to unleash them on the world, it is to fight them in ourselves and in others.
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RoninTigera's Avatar


RoninTigera
01.02.2012 , 11:19 PM | #9
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_VII:_Juyo_/_Vaapad

While Vaapad was created by Mace Windu, Juyo is very similar and has been around for thousands of years. It may be an option instead of Vaapad.

Also, it sounds like the character you're working on would fit perfectly in the New Republic as opposed to the old.
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