This ability hits through saber reflect and needs to be fixed. The damage goes back to the attacker, but does damage to player as well. If you say "delayed abilities are not reflecting" - wrong, because thermal detonator and sticky grenade work properly.

Description of saber reflect:

Reflects all single target ranged, force and tech attacks back to the attacker.

I think as one of the weakest ranked classes juggs deserve their abilities to work properly. Can provide video proof.

Edited June 9, 2016 by DerSchneider

VS is internal damage so it should bypass reflect, its basically a big dot.

Agreed, DoT is not labelled as single target attack, it has the label of DoT.

 

AoE & DoT are the abilities to use against sabre reflect.

 

Counterplay is hard yes?

VS is internal damage so it should bypass reflect, its basically a big dot.

 

Don't invent something new. DoT = damage over time, means X damage over Y seconds. VS has a single hit. In the description there is no specification on damage type, just force and tech = "yellow" damage.

Force leech is also internal damage though, yet it perfectly reflects. But VS is actually broken.

Edited June 10, 2016 by DerSchneider

Umm... how exactly are you supposed to "reflect" damage from a poison with a lightsaber?

Saber reflect reflects ranged force/sech damage. What is volatile substance? Is it tech based? I know its ranged

Poor juggs, weakest class lolz

Umm... how exactly are you supposed to "reflect" damage from a poison with a lightsaber?

 

How do you supposed to reftect detonator explosion with a lightsaber?

Again, it does reflect damage, so it's fine. But it also hits player, this is not fine. How can you deny that ability that hits attacker and player simultaneously is not broken?

 

Saber reflect reflects ranged force/sech damage. What is volatile substance? Is it tech based? I know its ranged

 

As I already wrote, tooltip says: reflects ranged, force and tech single target damage. VS is tech.

 

Poor juggs, weakest class lolz

 

Try solo and team ranked, not pve.

Edited June 10, 2016 by DerSchneider

As I already wrote, tooltip says: reflects ranged, force and tech single target damage. VS is tech.

 

I don't have access to the game at the moment so i might be wrong but isn't the tooltip: "Reflects all direct single target ranged, force and tech....". And i haven't played jugg for a while, so does that mean that it's not reflecting melee?

Don't invent something new. DoT = damage over time, means X damage over Y seconds. VS has a single hit. In the description there is no specification on damage type, just force and tech = "yellow" damage.

Force leech is also internal damage though, yet it perfectly reflects. But VS is actually broken.

 

Internal has NOTHING to do with it, he is wrong to mention internal.

 

DoT is the label which gets the damage past saber reflect and it is completely separate from attacks which are labelled "single target" even if you want to complain that its a single target DoT the game rules are that DoT is a separate category.

 

Choosing logic arguments to benefit you does not apply here.

 

I don't have access to the game at the moment so i might be wrong but isn't the tooltip: "Reflects all direct single target ranged, force and tech....". And i haven't played jugg for a while, so does that mean that it's not reflecting melee?

 

Correct.

I don't have access to the game at the moment so i might be wrong but isn't the tooltip: "Reflects all direct single target ranged, force and tech....". And i haven't played jugg for a while, so does that mean that it's not reflecting melee?

 

Exactly, but in my understanding direct is what requires targeting. Dots are separate category, but VS is nowhere near dot. It is the same type as thermal detonator, you can also call it "not direct".

 

Internal has NOTHING to do with it, he is wrong to mention internal.

 

DoT is the label which gets the damage past saber reflect and it is completely separate from attacks which are labelled "single target" even if you want to complain that its a single target DoT the game rules are that DoT is a separate category.

 

Choosing logic arguments to benefit you does not apply here.

 

Instead of logical arguments I can provide some based on my game experience and common sense.

 

Saber ward getting completely bypassed by stunning

An auto-crit ability is hitting through saber reflect

 

What does it mean? It means you can be globalled by carnage marauder and concealment operative while having these 2 cooldowns up. What if there are 2 marauders and 2 operatives focusing you in arena?

Where is that much talked-about "tankiness" of dps jugg?

Edited June 10, 2016 by DerSchneider

Exactly, but in my understanding direct is what requires targeting. Dots are separate category, but VS is nowhere near dot. It is the same type as thermal detonator, you can also call it "not direct".

The difference is that VS is triggered by additional ability. Could be interpreted both ways i guess. Wouldn't mind if a dev commented on that but this is wishful thinking.

Volatile substance does not get reflected. The animation triggers (but it triggers on pretty much everything, including melee hits which obviously don't get reflected), but no damage is given to the reflect-ee.

 

Proof: http://imgur.com/Kjom7yW Triggering VS by applying Corrosive Dart. OP, you're probably seeing VS getting triggered by Backstab, which does get reflected because it's kinetic tech damage.

 

Volatile Substance doesn't get reflected because it's Internal damage, like every other poison/bleed/burn (DoT) effect. You can avoid literally every other ability an operative has with saber reflect except for carbine burst and corrosive dart.

Edited June 10, 2016 by QuiveringPotato

Volatile substance does not get reflected. The animation triggers (but it triggers on pretty much everything, including melee hits which obviously don't get reflected), but no damage is given to the reflect-ee.

 

Proof: http://imgur.com/Kjom7yW Triggering VS by applying Corrosive Dart. OP, you're probably seeing VS getting triggered by Backstab, which does get reflected because it's kinetic tech damage.

 

Volatile Substance doesn't get reflected because it's Internal damage, like every other poison/bleed/burn (DoT) effect. You can avoid literally every other ability an operative has with saber reflect except for carbine burst and corrosive dart.

 

It is strange, because we also tested explosion with corrosive dart. It did a chunk of dmg to both operative and me.

Also, why force leech works then? It is drain, and deals internal dmg too.

Edited June 10, 2016 by DerSchneider

It is strange, because we also tested explosion with corrosive dart. It did a chunk of dmg to both operative and me.

Also, why force leech works then? It is drain, and deals internal dmg too.

 

Because it's a Force ability, I don't think Volatile is even considered "Tech", even though it has yellow numbers.

Because it's a Force ability, I don't think Volatile is even considered "Tech", even though it has yellow numbers.

 

If it is not considered tech - then it should hit through force shroud as well. It doesn't, thus it can be only tech.

If it is not considered tech - then it should hit through force shroud as well. It doesn't, thus it can be only tech.

 

The tooltip for Volatile Substance doesn't even say what kind of damage it is, but we can only assume it's a poison internal.. which goes along with other internal abilities, are you sure Force Leech is internal? I thought it just ignored armor since it was yellow damage, so it's technically "internal", but I don't think it's "internal damage".

Edited June 10, 2016 by QuiveringPotato

Exactly, but in my understanding direct is what requires targeting. Dots are separate category, but VS is nowhere near dot. It is the same type as thermal detonator, you can also call it "not direct".

 

I don't know why it's considered a dot. but gyro's right about the labeling. I think it's different from sticky because it requires a dot to activate. otherwise it doesn't do anything. but w/e.

The tooltip for Volatile Substance doesn't even say what kind of damage it is, but we can only assume it's a poison internal.. which goes along with other internal abilities, are you sure Force Leech is internal? I thought it just ignored armor since it was yellow damage, so it's technically "internal", but I don't think it's "internal damage".

Force Leech on sorcerer is internal damage and gets reflected.

The tooltip for Volatile Substance doesn't even say what kind of damage it is, but we can only assume it's a poison internal.. which goes along with other internal abilities, are you sure Force Leech is internal? I thought it just ignored armor since it was yellow damage, so it's technically "internal", but I don't think it's "internal damage".

 

I say based on what I see in the tooltip - if it's internal damage then it's internal damage. Nowhere in this game is stated that some damage types should bypass some abilities that were desinged to mitigate them. Because if the only ability in the entire game works in it's own manner - seems kinda strange.

For example in case of leg shot / low slash affecting shrouded assassin - it's completely ok, since the damage is ranged (aka white). But in my case I really can't find any reasonable explanation.

Edited June 10, 2016 by DerSchneider

We really need to use the bug report forums for bugs. Devs actually read those.

Are some of you even trying to read the answers given?

 

Things which go through Saber Ward = AOE, DoT and Melee

 

Things which do not go through Saber Ward = Ranged, Force & Tech ONLY if they are Single Target

 

Force Leech is Force and Single Target.

 

Force Leech gets reflected.

 

Volatile Substance is a DoT whatever you might think so Saber Reflect is ignored.

 

Internal, Elemental, Physical and Energy do not matter, these labels have nothing to do with it.

 

All you're doing is complaining about not liking certain abilities labels as it means Saber Reflect can't cheese them and it makes you sad.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Gyronamics

according to starparse log viewer, volatile substance is an effect, not an attack: http://parsely.io/parser/view/161640/0. you can see in the log viewer that it does no damage, but rather applies a debuff. if i am reading the log correctly, the poison effect triggers off of melee attacks. either the melee attack ignores saber reflect because it is melee, or the poison effect just doesn't have an attack type and so ignores saber reflect. it doesn't look to me like anything wrong with the game. Edited June 10, 2016 by sumquy

If it is not considered tech - then it should hit through force shroud as well. It doesn't, thus it can be only tech.

 

That's because, despite its limiting tooltip, nothing goes through Resilience/Force Shroud except zero-damage instant kill mechanics (which don't matter in pvp anyway).

If it is not considered tech - then it should hit through force shroud as well. It doesn't, thus it can be only tech.

 

The reason why it doesnt hit through shroud is that shroud purges the dot that will activate volatile substance mean there is nothing to activate it. you can apply volatile substance to a assassin with shroud up but you cant trigger it until it ends.

 

If your talking about the actual substance going off being shrouded i have never seen that happen but i also dont play operative a ton

Edited June 10, 2016 by Nic__