Are the Grey Jedi in this game? If they are, does the player interact with them at all? Either by helping/hindering to joining.

Also, really sorry if I seem ignorant in regards to anything, I am not fully learned with the Star Wars lore.

Ah, so it's not really a tangible organization in the game? Damn, they even have their own separate code and everything.

There must be both dark and light. I will do what I must to keep the balance, as the balance is what holds all life. There is no good without evil, but evil must not be allowed to flourish. There is passion, yet peace; serenity, yet emotion; chaos, yet order. I am a wielder of the flame; a champion of balance. I am a guardian of life. I am a Gray Jedi.

—Leor Danal reciting what would be the basis for the The Gray Jedi Code for the first time while in a Force Trance.

The organization as you may think of it doesn't exist, but SWTOR does have its own gray force users, and quite a few of them.

Revan and his Revanites adopted gray Jedi tendencies. Even SoR Revan used light and dark attacks during his storyline boss fight. You can join these Revanites early in the game on an Imperial player.

On the Republic side, you have the 6th Line Jedi whom you meet on Ziost. They follow a philosophy where one must do their duty, regardless of whether that duty adheres to the light side.

The Knights of Zakuul in KOTFE are similar in principle to the 6th Line, in that they place the Emperor's will above light and dark. They'll use light side and dark side techniques to overcome their enemies.

Lastly, in Chapter 12 certain key members of the Jedi and Sith claim that you must transcend the light and dark side to defeat the Eternal Empire. If you accept this philosophy, you too can become a gray force user.

Gray Jedi are fanon creation, it somehow made its way into Legends material. How, I will never know.

This.

Morally gray force users is one of the worst ideas introduced into the Expanded Universe. It's bad fanfiction and directly contradicts the films. Even worse, the people normally defined as gray (like Revan) aren't really morally gray at all...they still do plenty of evil, they're just not quite as evil as the worst among the Sith. No character should be able to do outright evil things, like commit mass murder, without falling to the dark side.

That said, sometimes Jedi who've quit the order are also called gray Jedi regardless of alignment. They're not always morally gray. Jolee Bindo for example, was pretty much a light sider, just a slightly cranky, unorthodox one.

Gray Jedi are fanon creation, it somehow made its way into Legends material. How, I will never know.

Well if its any consolation, SWTOR at least seems to support the idea that gray jedi are less powerful than their more dedicated light/dark counterparts.

The mighty Revan and his gray followers in the Foundry were defeated by two newly-minted Sith Lords, a cipher agent and the Champion of the Great Hunt. While these four heroes would eventually gain the strength to go and do great things, they weren't there yet. Revan had returned to full power after the events of the Maelstrom Prison, and he lost. It's interesting to note that Revan gives up trying to find balance halfway through the fight and switches to full on dark side for the power boost. You can see it in his buff bar during the fight.

The Revanites in SoR fare a little better, though its worth noting that on Yavin Revan tends to rely more on purely dark side allies or those with advanced tech for his important work than light side or gray force users. In Temple of Sacrifice, he uses 2 dark side monsters, two walkers, and his commanders are composed of one underworld kingpin, one mandalorian, and one Sith lord.

The sixth line Jedi are gray, but notice how all of them fall to the Emperor's control. Those who are purely light side or dark side manage to resist, as Lana shows. You can make a strong case for Agent Kovach too, as his desire to do good for people transcends loyalty.

The Zakuul Knights are even worse, being mowed down by everyone from the Outlander and his crew to the asylum gangs. The only truly threatening members of the Zakuul force users are the Exarchs, Senya, and Valkorion's kids. The kids use dark side powers exclusively so they're not gray. The Exarchs and Senya are thus the only truly gray force users I'm aware of who buck this trend. Depending on whether All for One or The One And Only is the canon way of defeating them, even the Exarchs might not be an example.

TLDR: In almost every situation where a gray force user is shown, a committed light or dark force user is shown to be more capable in an identical or similar situation.

Well if its any consolation, SWTOR at least seems to support the idea that gray jedi are less powerful than their more dedicated light/dark counterparts.

 

The mighty Revan and his gray followers in the Foundry were defeated by two newly-minted Sith Lords, a cipher agent and the Champion of the Great Hunt. While these four heroes would eventually gain the strength to go and do great things, they weren't there yet. Revan had returned to full power after the events of the Maelstrom Prison, and he lost. It's interesting to note that Revan gives up trying to find balance halfway through the fight and switches to full on dark side for the power boost. You can see it in his buff bar during the fight.

 

The Revanites in SoR fare a little better, though its worth noting that on Yavin Revan tends to rely more on purely dark side allies or those with advanced tech for his important work than light side or gray force users. In Temple of Sacrifice, he uses 2 dark side monsters, two walkers, and his commanders are composed of one underworld kingpin, one mandalorian, and one Sith lord.

 

The sixth line Jedi are gray, but notice how all of them fall to the Emperor's control. Those who are purely light side or dark side manage to resist, as Lana shows. You can make a strong case for Agent Kovach too, as his desire to do good for people transcends loyalty.

 

The Zakuul Knights are even worse, being mowed down by everyone from the Outlander and his crew to the asylum gangs. The only truly threatening members of the Zakuul force users are the Exarchs, Senya, and Valkorion's kids. The kids use dark side powers exclusively so they're not gray. The Exarchs and Senya are thus the only truly gray force users I'm aware of who buck this trend. Depending on whether All for One or The One And Only is the canon way of defeating them, even the Exarchs might not be an example.

 

TLDR: In almost every situation where a gray force user is shown, a committed light or dark force user is shown to be more capable in an identical or similar situation.

I like your quite feeble attempt to brush SoR Revan off like that, but I suppose if it makes you feel better about it, have at it.

Gray Jedi are fanon creation, it somehow made its way into Legends material. How, I will never know.

It's a great concept but I never liked the idea of it being organized as a Jedi splinter faction. Throughout a ton of source material (I especially liked West End Games takes on it,) they introduced other cultures and even singular Jedi and Sith who didn't operate in extremes with the Force, but more in balance and outside of their respective orders. I liked that, it seemed way more realistic, and could make some really great stories.

Zakuul and Voss both feel very old school gray Force to me, and users like Jolee and Qui-Gon were perfect examples of what I always imagined actual Gray Jedi to be like.

I like your quite feeble attempt to brush SoR Revan off like that, but I suppose if it makes you feel better about it, have at it.

I didnt bring in SoR Revan himself because I'm not 100% sure where he stands. I know Foundry Revan was balanced until halfway through the encounter, but SoR Revan is harder for me to place, so I left him out.

Part of me says he's gray because he uses "Destruction of Light" and "Destruction of Darkness".

On the other hand, he's the dark half of Revan. All of his moves in the cinematic encounter are dark side except for the ones mentioned above. He casts 'affliction' instead of weaken mind, 'force choke' instead of 'force stasis', etc.

So if he's still gray, then yeah he could be like Senya and be an exception. On the other hand if he's dark, then he's another example of alignment commitment being stronger than gray.

Given his moves and what Light!Revan says about him, do you think still gray, or is he a full on dark force user by the time we meet him on Yavin?

Zakuul and Voss both feel very old school gray Force to me, and users like Jolee and Qui-Gon were perfect examples of what I always imagined actual Gray Jedi to be like.

I had actually forgotten about the Voss, and they throw a bit of a wrench into everything. As a whole, we know the Voss are weaker than the Jedi and the Sith (the Sith explain that they threw the first invasion and that it was a feint to get the Emperor a Mystic body). They're easily tricked, and, much like the Sixth Line, are more vulnerable to mental domination than their dedicated counterparts....BUT their visions are always true. I can't think of a point in the story where a Mystic's vision wasn't always accurate. Not even Calphayus can claim that.

Perhaps commitment to light or dark brings strength, but being neutral grants clarity? Light!Revan might imply this when he speaks to Dark!Revan, saying that Revan gained cunning but lost wisdom. Or perhaps it's simply a Voss-specific teaching? I'd be interested in hearing other opinions on this one.

Edit: It seems like things are further compounded by the Emperor being able to use the Voss mystic's power himself once he took the body, but he wasn't able to see Baras' treachery coming and it ended up with him trapped by Sel-Makor. This may mean that the Voss's mystic visions are not a learned technique as much as a species-specific reaction to the Force.

The organization as you may think of it doesn't exist, but SWTOR does have its own gray force users, and quite a few of them.

 

Revan and his Revanites adopted gray Jedi tendencies. Even SoR Revan used light and dark attacks during his storyline boss fight. You can join these Revanites early in the game on an Imperial player.

 

On the Republic side, you have the 6th Line Jedi whom you meet on Ziost. They follow a philosophy where one must do their duty, regardless of whether that duty adheres to the light side.

 

The Knights of Zakuul in KOTFE are similar in principle to the 6th Line, in that they place the Emperor's will above light and dark. They'll use light side and dark side techniques to overcome their enemies.

 

Lastly, in Chapter 12 certain key members of the Jedi and Sith claim that you must transcend the light and dark side to defeat the Eternal Empire. If you accept this philosophy, you too can become a gray force user.

How early on is early on? I know SoR starts at around level 55, right?

How early on is early on? I know SoR starts at around level 55, right?

You can access it around level 12-15. Go to Dromund Kaas, then talk to the NPC named Sandor by the Dromund Kaas city speeder (the one that takes you to the Sanctum, Intelligence, or Mandalorian speeders). He'll get you started.

Good luck!

I had actually forgotten about the Voss, and they throw a bit of a wrench into everything. As a whole, we know the Voss are weaker than the Jedi and the Sith (the Sith explain that they threw the first invasion and that it was a feint to get the Emperor a Mystic body). They're easily tricked, and, much like the Sixth Line, are more vulnerable to mental domination than their dedicated counterparts....BUT their visions are always true. I can't think of a point in the story where a Mystic's vision wasn't always accurate. Not even Calphayus can claim that.

Visions through the force are only a possability, never a certainty. At least in SWTOR's continuity. The visions we know of the voss having are mostly made up of self-filling ones.

''You will die when confronting this Gormak"

"I shall go to die then"

When they find a vision, they take it as fact and go to make it happen. Though there are the visions our characters get to experience, but those really are just the most likly outcomes for their lives.

I always thought that a gray jedi was someone who did not follow the will of the council rather than a philosophy of something between light and dark?

That's sort of how I always approached it. Someone - Jedi, Sith, or other - who saw the Force with a middle-road, instead of simply being 'Light 5' or 'Dark 5'.

IT's been a while since I've been on Voss for planetary quests, but I recall that the deal is the vision is always "right," but the interpretation can be "wrong." AKA, they retcon the interpretations to match what actually occurs...

That seems right except I don't think it's retconning, I think it's the fact that they see the end result but have no clue how to get there. Take the PC, the Voss have had multiple visions that he or she is going to cause one of the most monumental changes in their culture, but they have no clue exactly how that's going to happen, just that it's coming. So these other Voss step in and basically guestimate the best path. Some are even more vague, 'Go get that grandfather. We saw our victory celebration and he was part of the Council, so to defeat whatever is coming he must be with us,' (from the random NPC barks you can hear in town), and some do seem to be a bit more clear, 'You are going to go fight this, win, and save the planet, but you don't survive the fight.' (The dark heart quest on Voss).

Perhaps commitment to light or dark brings strength, but being neutral grants clarity?

I think like most things it's more on an individual basis and not as a group. I mean, Revan had been captured, bound, and tortured for hundred of years, and then was thrust into a fight against multiple opponents, we never really got to see what he was actually capable of. I personally think Revan at his best could have taken anyone one on one, but that wasn't a gray focus vs light or dark thing, that was just because Revan was that dang powerful.

Vitiate and Valkorian are another confusing example. Same person...it seems...but Vitiate was full on Sith and the most powerful pure force user we've ever seen, but Valkorian supposedly was the gray/balanced path and seems even more potent than what we saw him do as Vitiate. Bah, that whole thing is just confusing. I'm still siding with it being two force users in one body.

So yeah, I think it just comes down to how strong the person actually is, not the belief system.

I always thought that a gray jedi was someone who did not follow the will of the council rather than a philosophy of something between light and dark?

I believe the term gets used in two ways. To refer to people who've quit the order, but who may very well still be light siders (a.k.a. Jolee Bindo), or fallen Jedi who are supposedly walking a line between light and dark. (Revan)

The former are a lot more interesting, the latter...bad fanfiction.

I believe the term gets used in two ways. To refer to people who've quit the order, but who may very well still be light siders (a.k.a. Jolee Bindo), or fallen Jedi who are supposedly walking a line between light and dark. (Revan)

 

The former are a lot more interesting, the latter...bad fanfiction.

Many also forget Mace Windu(uses the dark side in Vaapad to fight for the light), Quinlian Vos. Few others out there.

Couple examples of what "grey Jedi" can look like is Ahsoka Tano and Ashara Zavros.

In Ahsoka's case, she obviously still adhered to the light side, but was no longer a part of the order and so didn't quite adhere to all their teachings about the force.

"Revenge is not the Jedi way" - Vader

"I'm no Jedi" - Ahsoka

Ashara is a bit more of the "toe the line" kind of grey Jedi. While she still sees herself as a Jedi, she follows a sort of amalgamation of Jedi and Sith Codes in order to achieve her goals (in this case, peace) by whatever means are needed.

"I have peace like the Jedi and freedom like the Sith"

Many also forget Mace Windu(uses the dark side in Vaapad to fight for the light), Quinlian Vos. Few others out there.

I wouldn't really consider Mace Windu a gray Jedi, though. He's just a slightly unorthodox light sider. He never actually commits any dark side acts (like murder) in his back story, as far as I know. He just channels his emotions to help fuel his combat style, which is close to how the Sith operate.

I wouldn't really consider Mace Windu a gray Jedi, though. He's just a slightly unorthodox light sider. He never actually commits any dark side acts (like murder) in his back story, as far as I know. He just channels his emotions to help fuel his combat style, which is close to how the Sith operate.

It's tough because many dark side acts are actually incredibly open to things most people would consider to be good acts, or at the very least not the so very black and white some people see force users in SW as. The Jedi Shem in Powers of the Dark Side even said that the most common dark side act is acting instead of meditating/reflecting upon the action first, which seems like it would damn so many Jedi, and feeding off your emotions is Sith 101 combat doctrine (as you said), so if it's just black and white then it's following the dark side - which I wouldn't agree that it automatically would be.

It's why I always found the idea of gray Jedi so much more interesting. The idea that you are either a robot or a bloodthirsty psycho just can't be all there is. I would think there would have to be varying degrees on each side, with a path somewhere in the middle.

You can access it around level 12-15. Go to Dromund Kaas, then talk to the NPC named Sandor by the Dromund Kaas city speeder (the one that takes you to the Sanctum, Intelligence, or Mandalorian speeders). He'll get you started.

 

Good luck!

What about for a Jedi Consular around the same level?

What about for a Jedi Consular around the same level?

It's Imperial only.

It's Imperial only.

The Expansion is Imperial Only? Or am I reading that wrong?

The Expansion is Imperial Only? Or am I reading that wrong?

No, the Revanite quest on Dromund Kaas