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The premade problem

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
The premade problem

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
02.28.2016 , 01:26 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by jedcjedcjedc View Post
Everyone always thinks of this from the por pug'ers side, has anyone ever thought that it could be those very pug's with their 500 exp and their refusal to change that drive people to premades with actual competent teammates? and as for premade vs premade que how exactly would that work? you'll essentially have a "pug" premade with the exact same issues. how is it fair for four 2-man groups from different guilds to go against this supposed 8-man double premade group that supposedly runs rampant everywhere except for any wz I've ever happened to be in? (or maybe people are just exaggerating their asses off).
I don't think that's true. the op is kinda hopeless (yet another thread) and that bobbafatter guy. why did you even bother replying to his idiocy?

but seriously, you have to understand that better players usually grp with better players. and the problem with that is it often puts the 4 best (or worst!) players in the match on the same team. and it's not random, so the 4 best (or worst!) players in the match are always on the same team. that is a significant issue.

but I'm also not retarded. there's a limit to the "policing" you can do or expect from any governing body before revolt. there are also a plethora of other things that should reasonbly be taken care of before even thinking about splitting queues. I mean...the most obvious thing is role matching. x-faction. x-server. limit the number of players from the same guild on the same team (a reasonable attempt to prevent super queues). balance the number of pugs for both squads. there's probably a dozen things that are less radical and less polarizing than the idiocy some of these ppl propose. so I'm with you there. but on the other hand...yeah. I mean. you'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to see how having the 4 best or the 4 worst players in the match always on the same team turns most WZs and all arenas into a joke.
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Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
02.28.2016 , 01:29 PM | #12
The problem isn't people queing in premades in regs. The problem is BW devs not installing a truly solo queue for regs.

You cannot blame people for grouping when the system encourages it.

What do you want people to do? Not queue in groups, and enjoy the same steamrolling that usually happens to your PUG when facing premades?

I find grouping even with one other competent PVPer improves the quality of the match, even if we lose.

You can't rely on the randomness of who might queue and expect great matches. There are far too many PVE geared players, apathetic players, and just bad players to expect some sort of competitiveness when solo.

Basically if you solo queue, you cannot complain about the players grouping. You need to recognize the culprits of your misery. Blame devs for not having a true solo queue, and yourself for not grouping with others.
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DarthRaika's Avatar


DarthRaika
02.28.2016 , 01:36 PM | #13
Very basic matchmaking is needed. If a premade q's up then the system waits at least a few minutes to TRY to place a premade on the other team. If the system can't find another premade in just a few minutes then the system would work as it does now. Class role matchmaking/etc. would be great of course but for now at least give us the basic matchmaking system I proposed above.

There is nothing wrong with premading and I would start premading again if matchmaking was in place. As it is now I can't stand premading because I hate runover wins just as much as terrible losses.

Kaedusz's Avatar


Kaedusz
02.28.2016 , 01:37 PM | #14
What's up with all this **** anyway?
I always facepalm and never understood the premade whiners that are appearing from time to time on the forums.

Around 20% of my games are with guildies because of the Conquest farm or with a random collection of people that have met in wzs and know each other to be good, but the other 80% is solo queue.

From where do you even get the time to check players names to see if they are in the same guild? You should be too busy playing the wz. Unless this is a US server thing i am not getting and almost all wzs are premade with 2 skilled dpsers a tank and healer.

If you are too frustrated then have a 10 min break and you will miss the next few pops in which the premade that made you angry is.

Floplag's Avatar


Floplag
02.28.2016 , 01:47 PM | #15
There is little point to preaching the issues of balance and fairness in regard to this issue, it falls on deaf ears. Many play in teams to play with friends... a viable reason, others... becasue they need the help to be competitive. regardless of thje reason nothing anyone is going to say is going to change it.

The one thing i find about it more than anything else is that those who role premades have lost their edge. They cant play without the backup, guards, and heals that these provide and are playing far below their potential individually in most cases.

I got far better after going solo. Now im not all that or anything and premades are the way of things in the game today, it simply is what it is... i will team up from time to time and may even join a group going forward because of it, but the reality is that if all you do is premades the bulk of the time, especially those with tanks/heals... you are under performing as an individual in all likelihood.
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jedcjedcjedc's Avatar


jedcjedcjedc
02.28.2016 , 01:47 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
I don't think that's true. the op is kinda hopeless (yet another thread) and that bobbafatter guy. why did you even bother replying to his idiocy?

but seriously, you have to understand that better players usually grp with better players. and the problem with that is it often puts the 4 best (or worst!) players in the match on the same team. and it's not random, so the 4 best (or worst!) players in the match are always on the same team. that is a significant issue.

but I'm also not retarded. there's a limit to the "policing" you can do or expect from any governing body before revolt. there are also a plethora of other things that should reasonbly be taken care of before even thinking about splitting queues. I mean...the most obvious thing is role matching. x-faction. x-server. limit the number of players from the same guild on the same team (a reasonable attempt to prevent super queues). balance the number of pugs for both squads. there's probably a dozen things that are less radical and less polarizing than the idiocy some of these ppl propose. so I'm with you there. but on the other hand...yeah. I mean. you'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to see how having the 4 best or the 4 worst players in the match always on the same team turns most WZs and all arenas into a joke.
From what I see, most people tend to form groups with people in their guild or friends they've made in game. Sure, sometimes you have those guilds that only recruit who they think is "the best of the best" and those kind of guilds forming premades are most likely the basis for threads like this. however, 90% of it is just people grouping up to do something together. people group up for PvE and it's the norm, but you want to do some PvP together and suddenly you have to use a different que or get a whole team together for granked. JC is one of the more populated servers around, and don't even see full 4's that often let alone this fabled 8-man. An evening of PvP for me after logging on chat usually goes like this: "hey guys, anyone doing 65's? cool, mind sending an invite? I need to cap my sniper for conquest". Nobody even bothers with comp save for the times where we were screwing around going 4 arsenal mercs or 4 annhi mara's.

Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot View Post
The problem isn't people queing in premades in regs. The problem is BW devs not installing a truly solo queue for regs.

You cannot blame people for grouping when the system encourages it.

What do you want people to do? Not queue in groups, and enjoy the same steamrolling that usually happens to your PUG when facing premades?

I find grouping even with one other competent PVPer improves the quality of the match, even if we lose.

You can't rely on the randomness of who might queue and expect great matches. There are far too many PVE geared players, apathetic players, and just bad players to expect some sort of competitiveness when solo.

Basically if you solo queue, you cannot complain about the players grouping. You need to recognize the culprits of your misery. Blame devs for not having a true solo queue, and yourself for not grouping with others.
having a purely solo que means you supposrt splitting group and solo ques which is a terrible idea. your solo que times will decrease dramatically, and the pops for the "premade" que will be even worse. it will hurt everyone and help no one.
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Anzel's Avatar


Anzel
02.28.2016 , 02:12 PM | #17
The solution here is so stupid easy.

1.) Remove ranked PvP. It's so stupid and NOBODY cares about it.
2.) Have one queue for SINGLE players
3.) Have one queue for GROUPED players

Wanna play an MMO with your friends? Sweet. Then play against another group of 'friends' instead of a random group of idiots.
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Floplag's Avatar


Floplag
02.28.2016 , 02:24 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Anzel View Post
The solution here is so stupid easy.

1.) Remove ranked PvP. It's so stupid and NOBODY cares about it.
2.) Have one queue for SINGLE players
3.) Have one queue for GROUPED players

Wanna play an MMO with your friends? Sweet. Then play against another group of 'friends' instead of a random group of idiots.
We no longer have the player base to support different queues without drastically increasing queue times. Be careful what you ask for
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aerockyul's Avatar


aerockyul
02.28.2016 , 02:55 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Omecrion View Post
Now another issue that arises when you deal with premades, is the taunting and essentially bullying that pug groups receive from premades. Typically at the end of a match, one or more members of the premade start to insult the pug group and essentially turning them away from PvP due to the harsh treatment they receive from their opponents. Now many of you will say "they are just being butt hurt little babies". And that is along the lines of that bullying attitude. That is another thing that must end.
This is really the only thing I agree with in the thread. Sure, your premade is so epic at beating up random pugs, just leave it at that and move to your next roflstomp. It doesn't even have to be words, you can tell when the premade is ******* with you in huttball, for example, when they've scored 5 quick goals and then make no attempt to score the rest of the match. I'd love to quit at that point but I just want that measly point included in my daily/weekly so that's one less similar match to endure, but no, you've gotta drag it out.
While most of you (now speaking generally) must have thick skin and think it's just part of competitive pvp to be bullied/harassed/insulted by others, whether they're actually bads or not, it really does drive away people from joining no matter how you paint it. You want pvp to pop faster, to have a sizeable population that Bioware can look at with their data and say "hey, maybe we should spend a little more time with pvp now that more people are playing it", then the known insulters/bullies/harassers/whathaveyou need to be shunned, ignored, reported, etc. en masse. They're a worse detriment to an otherwise fun aspect of the game than the people who don't necessarily know what they're doing with strats/gearing/awareness/etc. who would probably stick around and get better if they weren't being actively pushed away by pvp's own base.
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foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
02.28.2016 , 02:56 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by jedcjedcjedc View Post
From what I see, most people tend to form groups with people in their guild or friends they've made in game. Sure, sometimes you have those guilds that only recruit who they think is "the best of the best" and those kind of guilds forming premades are most likely the basis for threads like this. however, 90% of it is just people grouping up to do something together. people group up for PvE and it's the norm, but you want to do some PvP together and suddenly you have to use a different que or get a whole team together for granked. JC is one of the more populated servers around, and don't even see full 4's that often let alone this fabled 8-man. An evening of PvP for me after logging on chat usually goes like this: "hey guys, anyone doing 65's? cool, mind sending an invite? I need to cap my sniper for conquest". Nobody even bothers with comp save for the times where we were screwing around going 4 arsenal mercs or 4 annhi mara's..
very few guilds are composed of radically different skilled players. there's always the token carry friend or something. but generally, if you're in the same guild, you're in the same ball park in skill.

the funny thing, though, and the reason I felt compelled to reply, is that I stayed in my origin server guild (casual pve) until recently with at least some of my imp toons. they started q-syncing, which annoyed me on a ethics level. before that, however, they would grp up together to pvp. I purposefully avoided grping with them. they just weren't good. it's like a 4-man of <guild> was a cancer-laced anchor in every WZ. and then you'd get into mumble and they'd be complaining about getting wrecked. I'm like...yeah. you're 3-4 bad pvpers and you chose to GROUP together. so now there's a guaranteed concentration of sh^t in every WZ you play.

it's not just about the better players usually grping together. this whole "make friends" "go premade yourself" rhetoric is moronic. it would be silly to ban premades from the queue. and the population is too small to split the queue. so any sane person would have to acknowledge that hey, you gotta compromise a bit here. there are less radical things to do.

but yeah...I just thought it was funny that the premade issue is super common. but it's not just there's all those great 4-mans running around. it's that it preloads the team with a bunch of players of similar skill together with no regard for the skill of the other team....or the role, but that's a bit different issue.
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JC -- Harb -- TEH