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BioWare You Have It Right, Don't Listen to the Raiders

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
BioWare You Have It Right, Don't Listen to the Raiders

JMCA's Avatar


JMCA
01.16.2016 , 05:59 PM | #1
Raiding has been in decline for years. The obvious reality is that participation in ops in this game does not justify the cost, so by focusing on story chapters and more inclusive, smaller scale PvE, there is much greater potential than trying and failing to get people to play ops.

If raiding participation does not increase as a result of 4.0, where all raids were made more accessible, then just write it off and focus on content that people do want to participate in.

Let the metrics guide you, don't listen to an over-represented vocal minority anymore. That's what got you guys into the revenue decline mess in the first place - listening to raiders over the much larger group of people who wanted story content.

Please don't relapse into what you did in RotHC and SoR.

Hebruixe's Avatar


Hebruixe
01.16.2016 , 06:04 PM | #2
I agree, more or less. Raid-centric game design results colossal disappointments like Warlords of Draenor. I've had more fun playing SWTOR in the couple months since 4.0 launched than I've had playing WoW in the year+ since WoD dropped.
Real men use defensive cooldowns.

DarthDymond's Avatar


DarthDymond
01.16.2016 , 06:13 PM | #3
If they get the resources available to continue providing story-content at the level they have planned with KotFE's monthly releases and they can put out some raids, then by all means they should go ahead and put out a few new Ops now and then.

But when push comes to shove, if they have to pick what to include and what to cut, which seems to be the case at present, then I agree they should be sticking with the solo-story focus and leaving raiding by the wayside.
One can only match, move by move, the machinations of fate, and thus defy the tyrannous stars. ~Kain

Refer A Friend Link: http://www.swtor.com/r/2gNj3d to get the free stuff detailed here

dracmor's Avatar


dracmor
01.16.2016 , 06:35 PM | #4
Quote:
Raiding has been in decline for years
Please provide proof of this. - oh wait, no player or forum warrior has server numbers or metrics to prove this kind of thing, so nvm.

If you are talking about the raiding decline in SWTOR,, did you ever think that the raiders have been declining in this game due to the fact that Bioware has not released a new op in more than a year? If BW were to stun everyone and suddenly release 2 new ops with Chapter X, how many people do you think would return to this game? Or do you really think this would cause a decline in the game's population?

And, once again, as I never get tired of mentioning this - please explain why BW/EA does not have the resources to simultaneously work on both story and ops (and other stuff as well). It does not have to be an either or option...

Finally, a healthy mmo game should cater to all sorts of playstyles/players. Just because you may not raid or feel it is not important does not mean it should be in the game. I am personally not a big fan of strongholds/housing but I would never advocate BW remove it or stop working on them.

More players = healthy, longer-lasting, and sometimes even a better overall game. There is no reason to remove or stop working on any part of this game.

Eggseggseggs's Avatar


Eggseggseggs
01.16.2016 , 06:37 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by JMCA View Post
If raiding participation does not increase as a result of 4.0, where all raids were made more accessible, then just write it off and focus on content that people do want to participate in.
That's what got you guys into the revenue decline mess in the first place - listening to raiders over the much larger group of people who wanted story content.
That's a good one mate.

With 4.0, people are now doing ops beside the past progression ones, but it in NOT increasing the amount of people playing them as it is old content. They have been dumbed down extremely to the casual population to the point they are not as enjoyable. HM's and NiM's still pose a challenge with mechanics and DPS checks, but the game went into a decline after 3.0 because raiders were frustrated with being unable to kill bosses in HM, and the fact that no new raids were coming out.

Sure the raiding population is not large, but it in no way small. Look at the stream the devs had Thursday, it was flooded with ops comments as people want to know instead of subbing for non MMO content. Story and PvP content is great and they did a great job with the story, but they are ignoring all of the MMO aspects of the game. Oh cool, a two person star fortress. No one thinks to group up for that on Heroic mode unless they can't do it themselves. Let's call it group content anyway.

Ops is not limited to just hardcore and progression raiders, but the average player who does do ops here and there. Because no new ops were announced with 4.0 and the long progression wait between 2.7 and 3.0. they stated was too long and were hoping to never happen again (search it up). People have *****ed since the beginning about how this game was not KOTOR III, so now you have it. It's a great story like I said, but they made the game too easy along with the fact they left out MMO content. They need a balance of everything, and story was usually every 4-6 months, 8 months to one year for ops, and who knows how long for PvP since they **** the bed with that. There is no balance with that.

PvP by far needs new things before PvE, but PvE is dying in terms of content as many of the veteran players have left due to the fact nothing new is coming out. Oh wow, everything that we spent years progressing through is now scaled to endgame, well guys, guess we have new progression! I'm honestly sick of running old ops and maybe I should find another game, but there needs to be a balance between all aspects, not just focusing on one area of the game as that's how you lose customers. If you are only satisfying one part of the game, you lose out on other areas.

But ranting aside, bottom line is they need a balance and need to announce some concrete evidence of when they plan to balance out all aspects of the community as the "we will let you know when we have information" and "It is something we definitely want to work on, but we don't have any plans now" responses are what is killing it. Sure Musco can't talk about everything going on behind the scenes, but we need some better communication to this already strained community.
<Intrepid> <Pandemic Legion> (Eve Online)

Eggseggseggs's Avatar


Eggseggseggs
01.16.2016 , 06:53 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by JMCA View Post
You know what I've wasted enough time talking to gibbering fanboys who have no idea what a quality MMO is and are unable to see that they are being ripped off with every dollar they spend on this game.

EA has you all by the balls. They know you are a bunch of vain (costume shop), overly sensitive (LGBT being forced into the story out of political acquiescence), obsessive (re-skinned products from other products that you have to buy or pay a large in-game cost for), spineless (constant QQ on the forums and still pay them their tribute), sex-obsessed (ton of skimpy outfits everywhere and more on the way), hypocritical (we want CLASS STORY. huh, one mission? WE WANT FACTION STORIES BACK!!!1!!), people who are the literal definition of a mark.

Enjoy your dress-up time and keep wasting your money neckbeards.

Be sure to pay attention with Heavensward comes out and FFXIV once again shows you fanboys what a real MMO does on behalf of its players.
This just goes to show the type of person you are and have no regard for others opinions and your disrespect to people because they want things that are different than yours.
<Intrepid> <Pandemic Legion> (Eve Online)

doelow's Avatar


doelow
01.16.2016 , 06:57 PM | #8
It's fine if they don't want to be a raiding game, but if they want people to pay a sub/spend money on the game, and if they'd like to keep the servers running, they need to provide some kind of long-term content that people enjoy.

Whether that is raiding or something else. Right now I'd say, raiding aside, they are missing that mark.

Think what you like. These games live and die on the numbers. No people, or too few, and no game. EA has shut games down before. They will do it again. Don't be naive. The "movie hype" is a temporary boon I promise you.

DarthDymond's Avatar


DarthDymond
01.16.2016 , 07:05 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Eggseggseggs View Post
This just goes to show the type of person you are and have no regard for others opinions and your disrespect to people because they want things that are different than yours.
Hah, I thought OP's handle sounded familiar. Ah well, I agree with some of the thread's thesis even if its originator did go full-on douche-bag in the past. (And seriously, I cannot roll my eyes hard enough at that "overly sensitive (LGBT being forced into the story out of political acquiescence)" crap.)
One can only match, move by move, the machinations of fate, and thus defy the tyrannous stars. ~Kain

Refer A Friend Link: http://www.swtor.com/r/2gNj3d to get the free stuff detailed here

BrotherJohn's Avatar


BrotherJohn
01.16.2016 , 07:15 PM | #10
Not a hardcore raider. Not a super fanboy. I enjoyed SWTOR for a long long time now starting pre-release. The most interesting thing I can say is raiding is actually increased and often gf ops will pop if you que yourself during a prime time. So I have to say your logic is based upon your belief out the gate that raiding is a waste of your personal playing time but is hardly representative of the actual desire to join raids. I will go one further you probably in all likely hood have never raided in any past mmo or were a raiding in swtor and got removed from an ops team due to either your play or the team just falling apart.

Now I understand you will wave your flag of OH MY GOD BW DID IT RIGHT, but really they failed hard not because they did not release a new operation this time around but because they though that the content they had released was actually compelling enough in its own right to have a player pay for a long term subscription. And we can all agree its not the one month omg the movie was awesome they had targeted here, it is the OMG our game is tanking how can be make this big MMO splash to further define what SWTOR is for an MMO. The released something unique and definitely a new way to deliver the SWTOR unique story this MMO has always tried to provide. BUT they gave us nine chapters of story which really amounts to less that 60 minutes of actually you playing the game you are paying monthly for which was honestly a major major fail. They decided to go the 2 hours of video route. This was a massive mistake. MMO players even the players that you would identify with want to PLAY a game not play a game and WATCH MOSTLY VIDEO.

Top that off with this massive gap between the first new KOTFE content and the up coming content. Of which honestly do you think its going to be more than 20 minutes of actually playing the game vs 60 more minutes of videos? Oh and top that every four weeks they will have the same deal for the fantastic month price of 14.99. I think all those the raid see this is an issue and I think all those that just casual enjoy the story see this as an issue and are not buying it.

I know this is true because they are and have been trying very hard to get you to sub again by giving gimmicky reskinned mounts and side chapters for story that will amount to 20 minutes of total game time.

Now you say well its definitely more time to complete the first 9 of KOTFE and if you walk and not mount to ride through the same areas again and again it sure is longer but after that first play through the story is absolutely not different no matter the choices you select and I do not buy it for one second that chapter ten choices will matter what so ever.

Oh and the replay ability is as poor as you can get. once you see it its the same over and over and over and over.

This OP is the reason why they needed to add not only operations but flashpoints, tactical flashpoints, warzones and GSF to keep people subbed long enough for them to release the chapter story monthly. Please stop fluffing them and really be genuine when you post something not your doing a good job cause you clearly are delusion if you think this is a good job.