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Why was the Outlander so weak before Vaylin and Arcann?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Why was the Outlander so weak before Vaylin and Arcann?

lukewarcriminal's Avatar


lukewarcriminal
12.16.2015 , 09:42 AM | #21
Arcann is stronger? well maybe... but for now, not for long for sure. i belive outlander has more potential and Arcann is lunatic, we are the only right choice obviously
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SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
12.16.2015 , 10:27 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Chaloss View Post
Darth Imperius is LS title.

Anyways, story does not change regardless of your alignment of any class as far as I know.
Yes, I know Imperious is the LS title. An insta-60 SI will have, like all brand-new characters, 0 dark and 0 light points, therefore neutral, but the cinematics address the character as Darth Imperious. That's why I added "(go figure)".
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SteveTheCynic
12.16.2015 , 10:32 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Chaloss View Post
Anyways, story does not change regardless of your alignment of any class as far as I know.
Sort of. The broad-strokes view, no, but certain individual conversations seem to be sensitive to the player's choices being out of character, like a Light V character saying to Lana to let Talek have it (DS choice). Lana will then mention that you've changed since she knew you on Manaan/Rishi/Yavin/Ziost. A Dark V character making the same choice, I'd guess, won't get that conversation.
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ZanyaCross's Avatar


ZanyaCross
12.16.2015 , 01:24 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by adormitul View Post
Yeah but here is the thing while I do not doubt that his natural force powers are not on the tier of the other 3 with the ghosts and the new body who can take the power of the ghosts he is and above that immortal. I do not get why he did not shrugged the lightsaber in his chest of and continued to fight.
I'm curious where you get that impression though. It seems pretty obvious the Inquisitor is absurdly powerful compared to all the other candidates to be Zash's apprentice, to the point they beat a dashaad assassin, a monster whose sole job is to devour force users, with a training saber (admittedly, Khem had just woken up and probably wasn't at full strength, but still...)

Heck, I can see why someone else in the thread thinks they are immortal. They survive practically everything in the galaxy trying to kill them at some point (a fact not even lost on the Inquisitor).

"I am Yadira Ban, padawan of the Jedi Order, and I have been sent to protect the general and stop you!"
"I completely understand, my master tried to kill me as well."

adormitul's Avatar


adormitul
12.16.2015 , 03:07 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by ZanyaCross View Post
I'm curious where you get that impression though. It seems pretty obvious the Inquisitor is absurdly powerful compared to all the other candidates to be Zash's apprentice, to the point they beat a dashaad assassin, a monster whose sole job is to devour force users, with a training saber (admittedly, Khem had just woken up and probably wasn't at full strength, but still...)

Heck, I can see why someone else in the thread thinks they are immortal. They survive practically everything in the galaxy trying to kill them at some point (a fact not even lost on the Inquisitor).

"I am Yadira Ban, padawan of the Jedi Order, and I have been sent to protect the general and stop you!"
"I completely understand, my master tried to kill me as well."
Well that is because he lost against Darth Thanaton very very fast simple as that. The other sith manged to kill a dark council member sure not alone but to get to that dark council member he had to kill dozen upon dozen of sith force users to get to him and he was the strongest of the 2 who killed that dark council member.
Here is how I see things tier 1 average sith/jedi aprrentice and padawan, tier 2 average sith lord/jedi knight, tier 3 average jedi master/darth sith, tier 4 most of the jedi council member/ dark council member,Dread Master and tier 5 Darth Marr, Malgus, jedi master Satele Shan, Wrath, HOT, Warden of the Order.
I will put Darth Nox before the ghosts at tier 3 close to tier 4 after ghosts he is tier 5. Do not get me wrong as a sith lord he was stronger then a jedi master.

ArenCordial's Avatar


ArenCordial
12.16.2015 , 04:53 PM | #26
I think some people are overestimating Forcewalking.

It doesn't grant true immortality, just seems to bind the Inquisitor's spirit to their body so the Force can heal themselves. It pretty much the exact same thing as what Valkorion does with the Outlander if you lose the duel with Arcann. Sort of like Force CPR. Destroy the body, stab the heart with a lightsaber, cut off a head and nobody is coming back from that. Hence why the Inquisitor's class mission on Rishi is about whether or not they are going to pursue immortality foolishly as Talos puts it.

Honestly the Inquisitor's survival is a more a testament to Thanaton's carelessness than anything else. The guy is supposed to be an expert in Force lore and rituals and he just doesn't seem to be able to put it together with how to react to the Inquisitor until the Inquisitor has the upperhand.

Slowpokeking's Avatar


Slowpokeking
12.16.2015 , 06:16 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by adormitul View Post
Well that is because he lost against Darth Thanaton very very fast simple as that. The other sith manged to kill a dark council member sure not alone but to get to that dark council member he had to kill dozen upon dozen of sith force users to get to him and he was the strongest of the 2 who killed that dark council member.
Here is how I see things tier 1 average sith/jedi aprrentice and padawan, tier 2 average sith lord/jedi knight, tier 3 average jedi master/darth sith, tier 4 most of the jedi council member/ dark council member,Dread Master and tier 5 Darth Marr, Malgus, jedi master Satele Shan, Wrath, HOT, Warden of the Order.
I will put Darth Nox before the ghosts at tier 3 close to tier 4 after ghosts he is tier 5. Do not get me wrong as a sith lord he was stronger then a jedi master.
But that was the beginning of Chapter 2, I don't think any of the PC other than Hero of Tython could win against Thanaton at that time. He had not been a DC member yet but he was already very powerful.

adormitul's Avatar


adormitul
12.16.2015 , 06:32 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
But that was the beginning of Chapter 2, I don't think any of the PC other than Hero of Tython could win against Thanaton at that time. He had not been a DC member yet but he was already very powerful.
The warden of the order killed a abomination in the force that had the power of several jedi masters while himself was weakened by shielding several jedi masters.
The wrath defeated a jedi master and her apprentice and at the end of chapter 2 he killed a dark council member a actual dark council member together with dozens of sith force users.

Leaveshill's Avatar


Leaveshill
12.16.2015 , 06:58 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by adormitul View Post
I will put Darth Nox before the ghosts at tier 3 close to tier 4 after ghosts he is tier 5. Do not get me wrong as a sith lord he was stronger then a jedi master.
A) Force walking is a difficult ritual, and the average Sith cannot bind the dead. The average Sith Lord will simply fail and die. That's a fact. "Even the great Tulak Hord didn't tangle with ghosts"- Khem to the SI.
Most sith lords would simply die. Most likely, all the other PCs would die to, they'd never be able to bind the dead due to it being a dark side ritual that demands "a rare pull amongst ghosts", as Kallig describes it.

B) as an acolyte, he defeats a dashade in single combat, which is actually incredibly impressive. This is much more impressive than the feats the JC, SW or JK had at similar times, and he had less training than all (even though it's natural to assume that the SI spends much more time than the other 3 at the starter planet, as he goes through the academy normally, the SW does not and the jedi are already "almost fully trained."

C) Nox, as an apprentice on the first planet he arrives at, has the most feats toO. He kills every single apprentice of Skotia, as well as a Sith Lord, before killing a Darth as well. But surely, he's "an average sith lord" before he binds the dead, even though he's capable of destryoing an entire powerbase at this stage. Wrath never did something close to that at this stage;Neither did the JK or JC before later in their careers. But the apprentice that destroyed an entire Darth's powerbase at this early phase is "an average Sith lord".

Nox also managed difficult rituals like mind healing and dream walking.
You may not like Nox, but Nox isn't even a tiny bit weaker than the other PCs. Not even without the ghosts. Thanaton is shown as one of the most powerful sorcerers in-game; by the way, as you can see in the SI-ending. Much more impressive than let's say, Baras. Much more. Thanaton is actually a master of the Dark side.

Also; Thanaton didn't "bother to check" because he could feel the darn SI being dead, because he was indeed dead for a moment. He didn't think that the SI had force-walked, because, nobody force-walks; people don't dare try and everyone that tries fails.
*Valkorion being the only other person that we know of thasn't failed.

-See the conversation("Dream of Empire"- "I always hoped I'd add you to my collection" -SI "I could say the same"- Valky

Saying that Nox is close to an "average sith lord" without the ghosts is simply comical. It's like saying that the Wrath is "just the average muscle, found at every corner, nothing special to see here, luckily for him some big people pushed him in the right direction, could've been anyone!"

Leaveshill's Avatar


Leaveshill
12.16.2015 , 07:11 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by adormitul View Post
The warden of the order killed a abomination in the force that had the power of several jedi masters while himself was weakened by shielding several jedi masters.
The wrath defeated a jedi master and her apprentice and at the end of chapter 2 he killed a dark council member a actual dark council member together with dozens of sith force users.
Don't tell me you consider master Karr to be more impressive than Thanaton? Haha. That's just silly, if you do. And while killing Vengean was impressive enough, he brought Lord Draagh, and Lord Draagh is, after all, Wrath's most impressive duel-kill... So, it's not very impressive. I mean, it wasn't a fair fight. Not at all. And he didn't kill "dozens of sith force users", to get to Vengean; he killed a few Sith on the way; you don't kill every single nameless NPC in the world, just saying. Just like Nox didn't kill 13 Sith at Quesh, he killed one Sith lord and not 12 sith assassins as well.... Still. Vengean is not a very impressive feat due to Draagh being there as well
Killing the Plaguemaster, however... That's impressive, really impressive. One of the most impressive feats in the game, in truth.