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4 man heroics - are they too hard?


AshlaBoga's Avatar


AshlaBoga
12.02.2012 , 01:55 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
The leveling H4s are pretty much all simple, toned down FPs: they require specialization, cooperation, and actual intelligent play, rather than just facerolling through. The fact that fewer people run the H4s so they don't know the strats for those bosses that explicitly require them doesn't really mean that they're "too hard" or "misleading".

The Heroic that you're having a problem with requires either CC (for the elite) coupled with the ability to kite intelligently (so that an errant AoE doesn't pop the CC) or a boatload of DPS (to burn the elite down while the tank blows survivability CDs) coupled with people that know how to interrupt as well as the ability to kite when he enrages. .
Listen to Kitru, Kitru knows all.
Typhojem Legacy, Jung Ma server
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Jrea's Avatar


Jrea
12.27.2012 , 07:14 AM | #22
Just Reviewing my earlier post. This whole thread seems to be the "Frustrated and Angry" VS. "Liars and Trolls". People who just crashed on a 4h post on the thread, people who like to make stuff up just respond.

As far as the actual topic goes...

Heroic 4's are too tough for regular game play, If they want to add in low level ops that's fine, but the difficulty of some of these H4's is just nuts. Not all of them need to be Nerfed but the discrepancy in the difficult of some over others causes a lot of frustration.

There is a difference between;

1. A difficult mission that needs 4 players.
2. Mission that needs a specked, geared, and experienced 4 man group.

When you are doing ops Hard Mode its an option, with 4h's its always a surprise.

ReordaN's Avatar


ReordaN
12.27.2012 , 07:54 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Jrea View Post
Just Reviewing from my earlier post.

As far as I can tell topic is;

The frustrated and angry VS. Liars and Trolls.

Heroic 4's are to tough for regular game play, If they want to add in low level ops that's fine, but the difficulty that some of these 4h's is at is just nuts.

1. A difficult mission that needs 4 players.
2. Mission that needs a specked, geared, and experienced 4 man group

There is a difference and it IS frustrating how unbalanced some of them are.

Please do not respond to this if you are just going to be a troll (Ephesia)
Actually most likely u r the one who's trolling here.
Neither me nor my friends have experienced any problems with H4. Just as Kitru said you have to use your abilities properly. Do you think that FPs r insanely hard too?
I've been reading forums and all I see is whining about how this game is easy.
If it is really hard 4 those who r troubled with heroics they just need to either check sum class guides ( I saw yesturday a sent who was wearing aim + willpower gear) or change your keybinding ( skills binded on 1, 2,3,4,5,6 etc is not an option coz u need to move and activate ur abilities quickly enough).
PATCH TO FULL! and make them pay!

mcslack's Avatar


mcslack
12.27.2012 , 08:11 AM | #24
Im new 2 MMO world and seriously addicted 2 this game. Its fantastic. I thought 4 a while that the heroic 4's were 2 hard also. Then i learned 2 read help guides and watch utube. Im finding like others hav said that u need proper teamwork and 4 evry1 2 use proper class abilities and things work out just fine. The hard missions make me learn the right way so as 2 not die all the time.

The new player guides in this forum really are fantastic. I`ve read them many times and keep getin better. When coupled with experienced player and listen 2 wat they say, u really cant loose on these mission`s.
Thx

Keypek's Avatar


Keypek
12.27.2012 , 09:16 AM | #25
Hasn't been a heroic 4 I couldn't do with me and one other person. Have even solo'ed some of them but that's usually via stealthing. It's really easy if one or both of you have a long CC. Then pull whatever companions you need... tank companions do a pretty good job with agro and can heal them if they are geared with little issue.
K'mpek/Keypek or some variation
Vanguard dps for nim progression. 55s=1 of everything.
Undercon__ ICE Breaker>Corellian Run>The Shadowlands

ZeroPlus's Avatar


ZeroPlus
12.27.2012 , 10:06 AM | #26
I've done [Heroic 4] missions with 4 DPS with NO healing abilities and NO CC (ex: DPS Vanguard, 2xSentinels, Guardian). They have been some of the most fun I've had in this game.

It just takes some creative thinking.

You know that group with 2 strongs and 3 elites? 2 focus 1 strong, 2 focus the other strong and then all run out. Come back. Focus 1 elite and run out. Come back. Focus 1 elite and run out. Come back. Focus last elite. Done.

The Champion? 1 DPS runs in and aggros him and starts to run/LOS (Line of Sight) him. The others start to DPS. When aggro switches to another DPS, that DPS starts to run/LOS the champion and the one that was running/LOSing starts to DPS. Keep switching aggro/DPS roles and BAM! dead champion.

Every class has defensive cooldowns: use them. Every class has a stun: use them (even a 1 second stun is amazing). Don't be afraid to run away from a melee boss if he is focusing you down: while he is chasing you the others will be DPSing him down. If a boss is ranged, LOS him: while he runs to get into a position where he can attack you again the others will be DPSing him down.

If one (or more) of your team mates has a CC (even a short term one) or healing abilities (Operative/Smuggler, Sage/Sorcerer, Commando/Mercenary), even untalented, it becomes even easier.

Just be creative and you'll be amazed at just how much you can achieve with a non-ideal (1 tank, 1 healer, 2 DPS) group. People just need to think "outside the box".
If you seek answers, you must always ask questions. - Master Vandar Tokare.

[Suggestion] Add another Blaster Pistol with the "A-300 Heavy Sonic Needler" model = DONE!

Ottoattack's Avatar


Ottoattack
12.31.2012 , 03:46 PM | #27
Heroic 4 can be hard if you are not running with the normal group format; tank, 2 dps and a healer. If you have a 4 man group in that structure, that are geared up to their level, you can do heroics sleeping. If you do not have a tank its tough. If you do not have a healer, don't try.

I want to also add if you and your companion are well geared and so is your ally, you can do heroic 4 and FPs with 2 people.

MACHETE_'s Avatar


MACHETE_
12.31.2012 , 03:51 PM | #28
I find the problem to be not enough difference in Character types. I agree if you do not have a healer good luck! last night i finished a heroic mission that took 2 hours (*********** ridiculous) and we started with tow Sith Assassins and one Sith Jug and a sniper. All i can say that after 20 min of getting our asses kicked a lot of us were questioning if it was worth the time spent.

Dassem's Avatar


Dassem
12.31.2012 , 04:14 PM | #29
I can't say I've found any of the Heroic 4's in the game tough at all or require the need of a well balanced group. I can't say I have done them all so can only comment on the ones I have, which can be challenging at times when I've ran them 2-man but never an issue when I've had a third along. Certainly never found the need to look for a specific composition for the ones I've done though.

I can't imagine any of the Heroic 4's being harder than a pre 1.3 Lost Island and that particular instance could be completed by 3 people with no recognised tank class (Mara tank in this case). Though if anyone can recommend a Heroic 4 that is tougher than a pre-nerfed Lost Island then I'd be very interested to try it out.

Suppose it all comes down to content will feel balanced differently for the individual involved. Then its a case of trying to find that perfect area where its not to hard for some but not to easy for others.
Caladen <Reckoning> Nightmare Lands

JLazarillo's Avatar


JLazarillo
12.31.2012 , 04:31 PM | #30
Heroic 4s aren't hard per se, but they're balanced around a team distribution that does not accurately reflect class distribution. Intending for teams to be built 2:1:1 in terms of damage, tank, and heals, and then setting playable trees up in a ratio of 5:1:1 isn't really good balance. Of course, balancing around a trinity is a problem with MMOs in general, though, it seems, and not really with Heroic 4s per se. Some Heroic 4s, for that matter, don't need quite that level of precise distribution, but the problem is, there's no way to tell. This leads to the real problem these missions have:

THEY'RE BORING

Have to sit around and wait until you get your golden balance of specs, then travel, sometimes long distances depending on current priorities, to the right spot, do the mission, and then get back to whatever you were doing. This is then combined with the fact that they're not noticeably more rewarding than other missions, and it becomes remarkably clear that unless the stars get perfectly aligned for running one, it's time more efficiently spent just doing one's own missions and moving along.